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Kaczyński slams "political correctness" plague in Poland


OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Oct 2015 #61
fell off the bridge near Włocławek

Reminds me o commie-era reports on the "suicide" deaths of anti-communist dissidents:
"X took his own life by shooting himself three times in the back of the head. The post mortem showed that the first shot was fatal."
Harry
22 Oct 2015 #62
He was clever enough to shake his tail

Is there any film of that? Was it considered politically incorrect in the 1980s too?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
22 Oct 2015 #63
Banning one's political enemies.... how democratic.

I don't recall Kaczyński ever talking about democracy as something worth defending - on the contrary, he openly talks about destroying the III RP.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,537
22 Oct 2015 #64
I don't recall Kaczyński ever talking about democracy as something worth defending

He stepped down following the results of a democratic election in 2007. If he were as you say, he wouldn't have done that.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Oct 2015 #65
he wouldn't have done that

Amen! Were it not for his love and respect for the democratic process, he might have followed in the footsteps of his idol Marshal Piłsudski and cleaned up the country once and for all. Maybe he should have.
jon357 69 | 18,445
22 Oct 2015 #66
He stepped down following the results of a democratic election in 2007.

Did he have the option not to step down when he lost the election? If he hadn't, he'd simply have been locked out of the office.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
22 Oct 2015 #67
not to step down

Did Piłsudski have the option of staying in Sulejówek and letting the country go to pot? Yes he did, but he didn't.
jon357 69 | 18,445
22 Oct 2015 #68
Apart from the absurdity of comparing a great man and a hackneyed politician, are you seriously suggesting that refusing to leave office when he was dumped by the electorate was an option???
Ziemowit 13 | 4,537
22 Oct 2015 #69
Apart from the absurdity of comparing a great man and a hackneyed politician

Why not compare the two of them? Piłsudski did not respect the verdict of democracy while our Dear Leader did.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
22 Oct 2015 #70
Apart from the absurdity of comparing a great man and a hackneyed politician, are you seriously suggesting that refusing to leave office when he was dumped by the electorate was an option???

Constitutionally, it's an interesting point. The Constitution says that the President shall appoint someone as PM within 14 days, so old Lech would've had the possibility of reappointing Jarosław. He would've lost the vote of confidence, but it would've allowed him to stay in office a bit longer.
jon357 69 | 18,445
22 Oct 2015 #71
If he'd have done that, all hell would have broken loose. The president refusing to accept the result of an election in which his identical twin brother lost? Not even in Kaczynskistan could they have got away with that.

Piłsudski did not respect the verdict of democracy while our Dear Leader did.

Not that there was much in the way of democracy to accept back in the day, that and the President having been assassinated by someone from a political tendency that is the forerunner of the PiS party prats. JK was booted out, didn't have the huge popular support and respect that The Marshal had, and didn't have an army either.
smurf 39 | 1,981
22 Oct 2015 #72
Speaking in Legionowie PiS leader

I saw this and thought of you:

twitter.com/IrelandsFarmers/status/657244222211387393
Borsukrates
19 Nov 2015 #73
But there are TWO kinds of political correctness in Poland ! The other one is flawless nationalists, flawless Catholic, anything related to communism is evil. Refugees are evil. The West is decadent. LGBT is civilization of death.
Atch 16 | 3,474
19 Nov 2015 #74
twitter.com/IrelandsFarmers/status/657244222211387393

Oh Smurf! You're a gas man - thanks for that!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Nov 2015 #75
thanks for that

So you advocate the antithesis: flawed nationalism, flawed Catholicism, communism is good, refugees are good (the more the merrier!), the West is wholesome, decent and moral and LGBT is the civilisation of the future!

Congrats! At least we now all know exactly where you stand!
Atch 16 | 3,474
19 Nov 2015 #76
At least we now all know exactly where you stand!

What are you on about you daft wazzock? Did you follow the link?? It's a tweet by an Irish farmer who has a boar called Polonius. I think Smurf posted it here by mistake, I thought I was in off-topic when I answered it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Nov 2015 #77
Did you follow the link?

Pardonnez-moi! In fact I hadn't been following the entire thread. I thought you were replying to his "TWO kinds of political correctness" post. Only after you politely (?) alerted me did I see his Polonius the boar post. I've never had a porcine namesake before, so it's a new experience. I even detect a slight resemblance. But I'm still three times the Polonius he'll ever be!
whocares
19 Nov 2015 #78
So you advocate the antithesis: flawed nationalism, flawed Catholicism, communism is good, refugees are good (the more the merrier!), the West is wholesome, decent and moral and LGBT is the civilisation of the future!

This is why Poland must be have improved relations with all Slavic people and Catholic nations.
It is no good to suck up to German (EU) and Anglo (US/UK) domination.
Borsukrates
20 Nov 2015 #79
So you advocate the antithesis: flawed nationalism, flawed Catholicism, communism is good, refugees are good (the more the merrier!), the West is wholesome,

I'm too smart to defend claims you put in my mouth. With most things there's a middle ground. For example, just because I dislike PiS doesn't mean I voted for PO. Jerzy Urban greatly dislikes Catholic Church, but even he said Catholics have higher morals than Muslims. Urban says he doesn't draw caricatures of Mahomet because he's a coward and doesn't want to have his head cut off.

Another example of PiS Correctness is IPN. The Institute of National Memory may as well be called Institute of Selective Memory. They remember Wołyń Massacre, they don't want to remember everything that led to that. Ask them about Wierzchowiny, a 200 people village exterminated by Polish army and you get no response. Ask them about "Akcja Wisła". Ask them why Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth broke. Ask them why Chmielnicki started the uprising. Ask them about Józef Piłsudski and Semen Petliura. Ask them why were Ukrainian-speaking schools closed, and whether it could have any impact on OUN (Organizacja Ukraińskich Nacjonalistów) forming a few years before Wołyń Massacre. Ask them which famous Polish patriots and politicians were initially plain terrorists, which president made his own bombs. Ask them why Czechs, Lithuanians, and even Swedes don't like Poles.

These things are not taught in schools, they're described in one sentence at best. Then Poles go into the world boasting how just and noble their nation is. They don't know history, but they attempt to preach it. They don't want to listen, and can't comprehend why others dislike them. Kali's mentality is running rampant ("I steal cow - good! Someone steal my cow - bad!").

Between 6th and 11th of November 2015 ARC Rynek i Opinia asked 1002 adult Poles what are the signs of patriotism.
6/10 - voting in elections
53% - knowledge of Polish history
Other common responses were: knowledge of Polish culture, celebration of historic dates, hanging of Polish flags.

Notably absent were:
- waste sorting
- saving water and energy
- obeying the law
- paying the taxes

Poland has XIX century understanding of patriotism.

Jarosław Kaczyński is doing Poland a disservice. He's merely replacing one kind of Political Correctness with PiS Correctness.
wino - | 16
20 Nov 2015 #80
. Ask them

Akcja Wisła-Stalinist era, no legitimate Polish goverment, but still apologised for.
My take is it was a success and the only viable solution, but officially Poland has denunciated the event, so what are you harping on?

why Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth broke. Ask them why Chmielnicki started the uprising.- oh please do tell? was it the oppression of minorities?
Józef Piłsudski and Semen Petliura.- it is a shame but Piłsudski wasn't in the office anymore, he couldn't keep his promises.UKR situation wasn't also very clear.

Ukrainian-speaking schools closed, and whether it could have any impact on OUN (Organizacja Ukraińskich Nacjonalistów) forming a few years before Wołyń Massacre.- are you trying t say that closing of a school is a good reason to torture and kill? and what about UKR terrorism prior to closing the UKR schools???

why Czechs, Lithuanians, and even Swedes don't like Poles.- you tell me.
It is childlish though, who likes who, as if it was impartial or measurable, besides only the rich countries are generally seen in good light despite theeir history. Poor ones are looked upon, who "likes" Kazakchstan and who knows anything about it, beside watching the "Borat" movie?

Notably absent were:
- waste sorting
- saving water and energy
- obeying the law
- paying the taxes

I am "green" wherever I go, don't need to limit to Poland.
I will stay In y XIX century mentality because it actually makes sense.
G (undercover)
20 Nov 2015 #81
It's a tweet by an Irish farmer who has a boar called Polonius.

I wonder if the farmer is a PF's member.

why Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth broke

Because It has been constantly invaded. Until Poland was strong all was fine. When the country got weakened due to constant attacks, all started collapsing, that's a normal thing. Narration that Poland somehow deserved that fate and that Poles should blame no one but themselves was spread by occupants (and is repeated by total imbeciles) to somehow "justify" what they did. Typical blame the victim.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
20 Nov 2015 #82
Notably absent were:
- waste sorting
- saving water and energy
- obeying the law
- paying the taxes

It's very notable. The PiS idea of patriotism seems to completely exclude all the things that make countries such as Switzerland work well.

Then again, their idea of "patriotism" is taken straight from the PZPR guide on how to brainwash your citizens.
Borsukrates
20 Nov 2015 #83
Because It has been constantly invaded.

If you keep blaming outsiders, it's comfortable, but it gets you closer to Russia, not truth.

Vultures avoid strong, healthy animals. They wait until an animal can barely move, or is dead. A vulture doesn't care if what it does is justified or not. It exploits weakness. Geopolitics works like that - excuses are made after the fact.

It's very notable. The PiS idea of patriotism seems to completely exclude all the things that make countries such as Switzerland work well.

More generally, Poles treat history like a flag to wave, not something to learn from. Poles should analyze history and try to understand why, for example, Kazimierz Wielki (Casimir the Great) was a successful king. It turns out 1/3 of Poland's income at the time came from a single salt mine in Wieliczka.

Pope Jan Paweł II was also treated as a flag to wave. Many observed that Poles cheered for the pope from Poland, but didn't listen to his words. Even when he was still alive.
Ironside 51 | 11,499
20 Nov 2015 #84
More generally,

You are clueless. I wonder are you really that ignorant or are you simply waffling on purpose?

Mixing politicks, average awareness of the public about history just to get across your biased views.

waste sorting
- saving water and energy
- obeying the law
- paying the taxes

Well, go on why don't you do it insisted of sitting at home whinging about others and history.

What you are berating PiS for is an attempt at building Polish historical narrative as many countries in the world do. Nothing wrong with that.

Another example of PiS Correctness is IPN

Sure, like stop to investigate Jedwabne and giving in to some idiots, you got a point here. However it was fault of the politician called LK.

Ask them why Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth broke

it is a rather complex question to ask for an average person. Do you know? I highly doubt it H.

Poles treat history like a flag to wave,

Some do some don't, many do not care a pretty standard approach. Why your chip on your shoulder should be of any interest to others? So far you are only crying like a little girl.

Question of whom dislike whom is a non issue really unless you could be more specific.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Nov 2015 #85
Pope Jan Paweł II

Sadly I must agree with you on not learning from history and JP2. wałęsa has often said: Zgoda buduje, niezgoda rujnuje, but in practice that is rarely the case, the continuing stupid Polish-Polish war being the best example. Indeed, during his first post 1989 pilgirmage JP2 chastised his countrymen for what they had done with their new-found freedom.


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