The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered [2]  |  Archives [1] 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 150

Hollywood's War with Poland.


Ironside 47 | 9,499    
22 Mar 2010  #1
The reason of common views about Poles and Poland in western public opinion.
Those views I may add were and are short of prejudice.

Interesting book to read on the subject.

search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ATH=M%2E+B%2E+B%2E+Biskupski

I take that everyone agrees :)
SeanBM 35 | 5,809    
23 Mar 2010  #2
All you are really giving us is some vague comments and a book that you think is interesting.

Hollywood's War with Poland.....The reason of common views about Poles and Poland in western public opinion.

Perhaps you could expand upon this, as I don't see it that way.

The iron curtain grouped most of eastern and some of central Europe together.
So any common views would be of the communists rather than individual countries like Poland.
It was the cold war, I don't see Poland as being singled out but maybe you do and the book does?
Anyway, the media was saying you were all comrades in arms and Communism was supposed to get rid of things like country and everything else...

So no, I do not see your point about Hollywood's war against Poland.

I could read the book but I think that would just be asking for trouble :)
OP Ironside 47 | 9,499    
23 Mar 2010  #3
What? Would you liked my ramification on the subject instead?
It would be only my impressions as I didn't study the subject.
On the other hand there is a book and thoughtful and documented account of crooked view of Poland in Hollywood.
SeanBM 35 | 5,809    
23 Mar 2010  #4
What would you like my ramification on the subject?

I don't know, is that the point of the thread?

On the other hand there is a book and thoughtful and documented account of crooked view of Poland in Hollywood.

So are you recommending a book or do you wish to discuss the subject matter?

As I have said, I do not see Hollywood having a crooked view of Poland specifically.

Perhaps you could give us some examples?

Edit*

I read the review, it was WWII propaganda to boost moral. It mentions some films I have never seen.

To Be or Not to Be (1942), In Our Time (1944), and None Shall Escape (1944).

KWnorow - | 22    
23 Mar 2010  #5
Hollywood is a propaganda money making machine. Why would an intelligent person buy into that in the first place?
OP Ironside 47 | 9,499    
23 Mar 2010  #6
So are you recommending a book or do you wish to discuss the subject matter?

both!

Perhaps you could give us some examples?

I would only quote from a book .....as I said I didn't study the subject!

I don't know, is that the point of the thread?

Well, opinion about Poland in the eye of public opinion in the west is crooked, and doesn't give a due credit to Polish achievements and input into our common European and Latin civilization ( as based on common Roman ground ).

In this pop culture play its part, it is used as a means of manipulating public opinion. And the great role of Hollywood were such policy is implemented.

whatever Poland has been singled out - its hard to say because there is a great need of hard evidence to support that thesis.
I'm simply presenting a book and opportunity for everyone to learn about Hollywood attitude towards Poland, that all, if there is sinister implication? Well, I'm not going to speculate it is up for individuals to come up with their own conclusions ....after reading said book.
Harry    
23 Mar 2010  #7
It is hugely amusing that you think Hollywood is aware of Poland's existence, let alone that Hollywood cares enough about Poland to make any effort at all with respect to Poland!
SeanBM 35 | 5,809    
23 Mar 2010  #8
Hollywood attitude towards Poland,

Does this book only deal with Hollywood's view of wartime Poland?
Or does it include the cold war and more recent times?
OP Ironside 47 | 9,499    
23 Mar 2010  #9
It is hugely amusing that you think Hollywood is aware of Poland's existence, let alone that Hollywood cares enough about Poland to make any effort at all with respect to Poland!

Hollywood is not an entity, and in this you are right that as a place is not aware of ...anything I suppose.
Taking into account people working, owning all that we think about when we say Hollywood I would say that some do and some don't !

There are people in Hollywood well aware of Poland's existence and during the WWII there were people even better aware of Poland's existence and role than I suspect nowadays.

Does this book only deal with Hollywood's view of wartime Poland?

this book concentrate on events during the war years 1939-1945. Propaganda is yet another face of war:)
Harry    
23 Mar 2010  #10
Taking into account people working, owning all that we think about when we say Hollywood I would say that some do and some don't !

Yes, but you overlook the fact that Hollywood is dedicated to just one thing: making money. As there is pretty much bugger all money in fighting a war with Poland, the idea of fighting such a war is not one that would occur to the vast majority of people in Hollywood.
MediaWatch 10 | 945    
23 Mar 2010  #11
The reason of common views about Poles and Poland in western public opinion.

This is an interesting book.

Indeed Hollywood has had a war against Poland and people of Polish ancestry. It didn't stop after WWII. Just ask people at the Anti-Bigotry committee of the Polish American Congress or any Polish American group and they will confirm that there has been an anti-Polish Bias in Hollywood. Its not as much as it used to be, but it still exists nevertheless.

Some movies that come to mind that portray Poles in a negative way are:

-"Polish Wedding" (1998) -there is no wedding since Hollywood thinks Poles don't know what a wedding is

-"Big Lebowski" (1998) the Polish American characters are portrayed negatively as slobs

-"SWAT" (2003) The commander of the SWAT team (Samuel Jackson) makes anti-Polish Slurs. (I heard Polish Americans discuss this anti-Polish bigotry on radio talk shows).

-"Bruce Almighty" (2003) Polish Americans are portrayed as being backward showing one Polish American picking his nose

-"Land of the Lost" (2009) Anti-Polish Bigot Will Ferrell makes anti-Polish comments in movie and then braggs about them after the movie.

One virulent anti-Polish movie "The End" (1978) about 40 years ago actually contained dialog that "Polish people are like sh*t".

These are just the tip of the iceberg examples of Hollywood's anti-Polish prejudice. Its all meant to condition its viewers to have the same Anti-Polish prejudice that the Leftist Hollywood producers of these movies have.

The fact that Poland is a conservative Catholic nation that resisted communism has always angered Hollywood. For the record, when the Nazis attacked Poland, Hollywood barely said anything. But WHEN the Soviet Union was attacked, Hollywood then got angry at the Nazis.
Harry    
23 Mar 2010  #12
Indeed Hollywood has had a war against Poland and people of Polish ancestry.

Do stop your utterly pathetic whining. Here's a very partial list of Hollywood films where the villans are British but do you hear Brits whining about Hollywood fighting a war against them?

* Gone in Sixty Seconds
* Tango and Cash
* The Aristocats
* Alan Rickman in Die Hard (a case of an English actor playing a Germanic character with a slight accent), Help! I'm a Fish, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves and Quigley Down Under.

* Anthony Hopkins in The Silence of the Lambs6.
* Basil Rathbone in Anna Karenina, David Copperfield, Son of Frankenstein and The Mark of Zorro7
* Ben Kingsley in Sneakers.
* Betty Lou Gerson as the definitive villainess, Cruella DeVille in 101 Dalmations (see also American actress Glenn Close playing the same role for the live-action remake).

* Charles Dance in Last Action Hero.
* Christopher Lee in (among many others) Star Wars: Attack of the Clones and The Lord of the Rings Trilogy.
* Claude Rains in Notorious8.
* David Bowie in Labyrinth and The Last Temptation of Christ (in which all the non-Roman biblical characters are played by Americans).
* Dougray Scott in Mission: Impossible 2.
* George Sanders in Rebecca and Walt Disney's The Jungle Book.
* James Mason in North by Northwest , Salem's Lot and The Verdict.
* Jeremy Irons in Die Hard With a Vengeance (where again, it's an English actor playing a Germanic character), The Lion King and The Time Machine.

* John Lithgow in Cliffhanger and Shrek (American actor hamming as British, though Lithgow has also played his fair share of homegrown villains, too).
* Jonathan Hyde in Jumanji
* Joss Ackland in Lethal Weapon 2 (British actor, South African accent!)
* Pam Ferris in Matilda
* Patrick Stewart in Conspiracy Theory
* Peter Cushing in Star Wars9 (an example of the Imperialism mentioned above being used as short-hand to differentiate between the old order (Jedis and the Empire) and the new (the Rebellion Alliance).

* Pierce Brosnan in Mrs Doubtfire10.
* Ray Milland in Dial M for Murder.
* Richard Attenborough in Jurassic Park (although his character in the film version was much more benign and unconsciously dangerous than in the books).
* Sir Ian McKellen in X-Men11
* Steven Berkoff in Beverly Hills Cop.
* Tim Curry in The Rocky Horror Picture Show (alongside Richard O'Brien and Patricia Quinn, both sporting East-European accents).
* Timothy Dalton in The Shadow.
* Tom Wilkinson in Rush Hour.

More about Hollywood and the British:

Mel Gibson's'Patriot' will be the bracingly anti-British story of an American general in the War of Independence, Francis Marion, who fights a brilliant guerilla war against the evil British invaders. When the movie's historians discovered that in real life Marion raped his slaves and hunted Red Indians for sport they changed his name to Benjamin Martin. Yet one thing stayed the same; the movies' 'baddies' are, as usual, the treacherous, cowardly, evil, sadistic Brits.

SeanBM 35 | 5,809    
23 Mar 2010  #13
simply invented scenes in which British troops machine gunned perfectly innocent Irish sports spectators,

That is true and I haven't checked the rest of the articles claims.

British forces opened fire on the crowd at a Gaelic football match in Croke Park, killing fourteen Irish civilians.

(Wiki) Bloody Sunday (1920) the time of Michael Collins.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,860    
23 Mar 2010  #14
That is true and I haven't checked the rest of the articles claims.

They didnt machine gun the spectators though. The armoured cars were stationed outside Croker.
Harry    
23 Mar 2010  #15
British forces opened fire on the crowd at a Gaelic football match in Croke Park, killing fourteen Irish civilians.

No it is not true. Machine guns were not used, an armed car was not driven into the stadium, British troops did not do the shooting and fewer than 14 civilians died (12 to be exact; 14 was the number of suspected British intelligence operatives murdered by the IRA earlier in the day).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Collins_%28film%29#Historical_alterations
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
23 Mar 2010  #16
The 1996 biopic 'Michael Collins', for example, posing as a true story

Jordan blew it - he said himself that he may never make a more important film, and yet he made a complete mess of it. It's a good film if you take it as fiction, but in fact - it's so inaccurate that it hurts. The worst thing is that he was given the time to tell the story correctly!

Leeson was fantastic as Collins though - believable, likeable and generally fantastic. Rickman didn't do a bad job (does he ever?) as de Valera as well.

...just don't get me started on Julia Roberts.
MediaWatch 10 | 945    
23 Mar 2010  #17
Do stop your utterly pathetic whining. Here's a very partial list of Hollywood films where the villans are British but do you hear Brits whining about Hollywood fighting a war against them?

Can you be more specific in your examples of how British are degraded? What is the dialog in the movies that portrays the British badly?

What did they spill their tea and you find that degrading?

You mentioned "Star Wars" as an example of an anti-British movie. For Gods sake this movie takes place in outer space and NO human nation is referenced. Specifically highlight the anti-British portrayal or dialog in that movie.

You also mentioned Jeremy Irons in Die Hard which you say is "an English actor playing a Germanic character"

Or

ANTHONY HOPKINS in Silence in the Lambs????

Wait a minute. Most of your examples are of English actors that play the roles of bad guys.
But that's NOT portraying British badly as anywhere near dialog of "English are crap" or "English are dumb" or "English are animals". Do you have examples of that?

That's a real reach when you are going to say that English actors playing bad guys is anti-English. If the movie CHARACTER is clearly identified as being British/English and is portrayed negatively, then that's different.

You mentioned Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs. I saw that movie I don't recall the killer character saying he did all those terrible things because he's British. Correct me if I'm wrong, but where was the connection made in that movie that the character was British and that he did terrible things because he was British?

However I will conceed to you that that one movie where the British during the American revolution were killing innocent Americans was Anti-British. In that movie it clearly identified British characters doing horrible things for no reason.
Harry    
23 Mar 2010  #18
Leeson was fantastic as Collins though - believable, likeable and generally fantastic. Rickman didn't do a bad job (does he ever?) as de Valera as well.

An Irish actor as the Irish hero and a British actor as the Irish villan: how surprising.

You mentioned "Star Wars" as an example of an anti-British movie. For Gods sake this movie takes place in outer space and NO human nation is referenced. Specifically highlight the anti-British portrayal or dialog in that movie.

No, I pointed out that the bad guys are played by British actors.

Most of your examples are of English actors that play the roles of bad guys.

Why are British actors cast as the bad guys? Larry Mark, producer of Jerry Maguire, is explicit about what is going on. 'The villains used to be the Germans, the Japanese or the Russians', he admits, 'but they protested. If the English get a bad rap, they can take it.'

However I will conceed to you that that one movie where the British during the American revolution were killing innocent Americans was Anti-British. In that movie it clearly identified British characters doing horrible things for no reason.

Any comment about the lies told about the British in connection with Ireland? Care to name a Hollywood film that accused the Poles of using armoured cars to machine gun innocent civilians?
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
23 Mar 2010  #19
An Irish actor as the Irish hero and a British actor as the Irish villan: how surprising.

Ah, come on, de Valera was an American ;)
Nika 2 | 507    
23 Mar 2010  #20
uuuffff, no mention of Polish ppl here :)
(lots of swear-words though, sorry)
...
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
23 Mar 2010  #21
I think it is a horribly romanticised version of events.
It is fiction, I don't know anyone who takes it as fact.

Most non-Irish audiences did, even the Americans. The fact that it's clearly mentioned in the film that de Valera was saved from execution because of his unclear citizenship passed them by, I think.

Thinking about it now, the only thing that the film did completely right was in the portrayal of what happened to Connolly. And to be fair, the film does a very good job of showing how complex the relationship between Collins and de Valera was.

On a different note, it's fascinating how today, the division between the two major parties can be traced directly to Collins and de Valera.
MediaWatch 10 | 945    
23 Mar 2010  #22
And America do like their villains to be British, we can't say they don't but I think they do it in a complementary way.
The villain must be cunning and intelligent otherwise who'd care?

BINGO!!

Yes

That's a good observation.

If a British guy for example is portrayed as being an assassin (a bad thing) he will also be portrayed as being a smooth, cunning, intelligent and well dressed guy (good things).

I've heard some Brits say that they don't like the James Bond movies because its about a British guy who is clearly identified as having "a license to kill" and he goes around killing people. All true!

But he's going around killing bad guys, he looks sharp, is very intelligent, and he gets all the hot women in the world and he has a fantastic adventerous life.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
23 Mar 2010  #23
-"Bruce Almighty" (2003) Polish Americans are portrayed as being backward showing one Polish American picking his nose

What mean peace of anti-polish prejudice and propaganda! Everybody knows Poles would never do something like this! HANG THEM!

There are countless shows of the positive things of Britain. When one thinks of Britain they think of "Royalty" "Kings", elegance, "Sun doesn't set on the British Empire" a positive etc.

Really? Ever seen an episode of "Little Britain"???

But I LOVED "Allo Allo"! Now that is a show I would like to see how Poles receive it. After all it's during the war time but nonetheless everbody has to laugh so much it hurts. So full packed of stereotypes and cliches MediaWatch would have a field day.

Did this show run in Poland already?
convex 20 | 3,980    
23 Mar 2010  #24
What mean peace of anti-polish prejudice and propaganda!

There was a Pole in that? I was subjugated to it on a plane, I don't remember any Poles in it.

There are countless shows of the positive things of Britain. When one thinks of Britain they think of "Royalty" "Kings", elegance, "Sun doesn't set on the British Empire" a positive etc.

I think of sharia law, disgusting political correctness, ridiculous household debt, good people, and great IPA and stouts.
MediaWatch 10 | 945    
23 Mar 2010  #25
What mean peace of anti-polish prejudice and propaganda! Everybody knows Poles would never do something like this! HANG THEM!!!

Oh here comes my German pal Bratwurstboy galloping in, who like a vulture is a magnet to anything that degrades Polish people. lol

Yes and how dare we mention anything about the historical negative things Germans have done like with those Nazis. How dare we mention that Germans would ever be foolish enough to follow mass murderer leaders and commit unspeakable crimes against humanity in the millions. I mean everyone KNOWS that Germans would never try to kill tens of millions of people and set in motion a chain of events that lead to the Soviet Union destroying Eastern Europe after the Nazis were doing it.

No No Germans would NEVER do that! We all know that Germans are all civilized cultured people and would never want to do dispicable things to other human beings.

So for anyone who wants to bring up things about Germans doing horrible things to others I say HANG THEM!!! Everyone knows Germans would never do this!
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
23 Mar 2010  #26
Well....Hollywood does "dare"....do you see us whine???

Grow up you *****!

Remember "Inglorious Basterds"? Germany paid Tarantino to make the movie in Babelsberg. Lots of Germans in this movie and a great reception here.

I would like to see you throwing a tantrum at something similiar pointed at you. But you have already a problem with a Pole shown PICKING HIS NOSE for FUCKS SAKE!
MediaWatch 10 | 945    
24 Mar 2010  #27
In and of itself its no big deal. But its part of a pattern of things FOR F's sake. I will not use the F word like you.

As for Inglorious Basterds its based on what the Germans did in WWII and a reaction to it by some Jews. No?

So what's the big deal? Is Hollywood making up what happened in WWII? Do you think the Nazis were innocent?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
24 Mar 2010  #28
And Poles DO pick their noses! They do it all the time...everywhere....they can't stop it!!! THAT'S THE TRUTH!!!

See, Hollywood is not so far off...stop the whining!
Bzibzioh    
24 Mar 2010  #29
It is hugely amusing that you think Hollywood is aware of Poland's existence

Poland is an excellent backdrop for all Holocaust movies (Schindler's List and Pianist anyone?) Just don't expect a positive portrayal of any Polish characters in any of them. And forget about any modern day story worthy of Hollywood attention.

No, I pointed out that the bad guys are played by British actors.

British actors playing mostly Americans and getting a nice paycheck and sometimes even Oscars. Oh, I totally see why you'd be livid. And comparing it to when Poles, played by some accidental actors, are portrayed as Poles and presented mostly negatively. Not only in Hollywood movies by the way. What about British movie "Enigma"? Why the villain was Polish? That was really idiotic idea.

Smooth work at changing the topic of the thread, Harry. Superb, as usual.
MediaWatch 10 | 945    
24 Mar 2010  #30
And Poles DO pick their noses! They do it all the time...everywhere..

What class you have lol

Yes yes Poles pick their noses and do all types of terrible things according to Pole-haters/Germans like you.

Poles started Aids, they victimized poor Adolf, they are rude, they have bad manners, they are ugly, they are dirty, did I miss something?

Home / News / Hollywood's War with Poland.
Discussion is closed.