The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 57

Highlights of passing year, in Poland (or elsewhere) which made hot discussions in PF


Ziemowit 13 | 3,815
2 Jan 2013 #31
I've never run into anyone that didn't know concentration camps were run by Nazis.Don't be a half-wit

Here's a passage from the Wiki page " 'Polish death camp' controversy":

An example of the controversy occurred when an April 30, 2004 CTV News report made reference to "the Polish camp in Treblinka". The Polish embassy in Canada lodged a complaint with CTV. Robert Hurst of CTV, however, argued that the term "Polish" was used throughout North America in a geographical sense, and declined to issue a correction. The Polish Ambassador to Ottawa then complained to the National Specialty Services Panel of the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council. The Council did not accept Hurst's argument and ruled that the word "'Polish'—similarly to such adjectives as 'English', 'French' and 'German'—had connotations that clearly extended beyond geographic context. Its use with reference to Nazi extermination camps was misleading and improper".

I cannot provide a reference (I don't remember the name of the newspaper), but once in the American press, the concentration camp in Germany was referred to as a "Polish concentration camp".
OP pawian 168 | 11,130
2 Jan 2013 #32
Its use with reference to Nazi extermination camps was misleading and improper".

But uneducated morons still insist on using it.
gumishu 11 | 5,142
2 Jan 2013 #33
or people with an agenda
OP pawian 168 | 11,130
2 Jan 2013 #34
Anti-Polish Jewish journalists and historians?? Yes, I heard about them.
Ant63 11 | 403
2 Jan 2013 #35
But uneducated morons still insist on using it.

Because it is correct to use it. It is a deliberate misunderstanding that the statement infers the camps are of Polish origin. Native English speakers understand it exactly. It appears only the Poles complain about it and then we have a wave Political Correctness. Its the kind of reaction you get from a guilty child; from now on, for the sake of PC, I will refer to them as "The German death camps on the territory of Poland". What a waste of words!

How can we rephrase "Norway is trying to steal our blond, blue eyed children" to make it more PC? In fact what connotation can we make from this statement?
Barney 14 | 1,472
2 Jan 2013 #36
PS. Saying Polish death camp is a sypmtom of utter ignorance, isn`t it?

Yes

Native English speakers understand it exactly

Nonsense, Polish death camp means a death camp run by Poles and is stupid only an uneducated halfwit would use such a phrase
OP pawian 168 | 11,130
2 Jan 2013 #37
Because it is correct to use it.

Don`t be silly. Evil journalists who hate Poland propagate the wrong phrase because it suits their agenda.

Try to find the phrase Austrian concentration campin Mauthausen, you won`t find it.

Or Norwegian concentration camp in Bardufoss or Grini.

Or French concentration camp in Natzweiler Struthofwhere 25.000 people perished.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natzweiler-Struthof

Actually, try to find any of the German Nazi camps listed below under the nationality of the geographical location

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_concentration_camps

You won`t find any except Polish and Nazi German camps.
Ant63 11 | 403
2 Jan 2013 #38
Don`t be silly. Evil journalists who hate Poland propagate the wrong phrase because it suits their agenda.

Why do you think there are evil journalists that hate Poland? I saw the appalling article posted just before Christmas, but that could be considered journalism. It was a vile diatribe. I see criticism sometimes, and I see a lot of people being over sensitive. If English people were as sensitive we would have all hung ourselves by now. We get it from everywhere. What is there to hate about Poland? I for one have had more than my fair share of trouble because of the Polish Courts; it doesn't make me hate Poland. Don't get me wrong I'm not happy with what happened, and I wasn't happy to be taken away at Poznan airport by the border guards for not going up with my partner to show my passport because the sign said "One At A Time". I've met dick heads in England too although that incident was by far superior.

Poland's a pretty nice place; sometimes my opinion bends the other way because of evil, hateful posts on here. The defenders of the realm go a little too far sometimes but then you step back and see they only represent themselves.

I agree with what you are saying, because there is a presumed knowledge in the statement and it can only be used in the correct context.

Nonsense, Polish death camp means a death camp run by Poles

As in the previous post Barney, it depends on the context, so it's not nonsense.
Barney 14 | 1,472
2 Jan 2013 #39
As in the previous post Barney, it depends on the context, so it's not nonsense

You said native English speakers understand it exactly that is bollox, Polish death camp means a death camp run by Poles nothing to do with geographical location, nothing to do with context, nothing to do with PC or being over sensitive (whatever that means), nothing to do with anything else its just wrong.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jan 2013 #40
Again, your average Joe does not think that Poles were exterminating Jews, but if he really starts doing some research, he might find something about antisemitizm in Poland before the war, maybe run into something about Jedwabne, or how about many pious, church going Poles that think Jews killed their Jesus.. be careful what you wish for.
Rysavy 10 | 308
3 Jan 2013 #41
I couldnt help but say something.. this is not first time I see that the "average man on the street ..most often the phrase Average Joe and referring to US resident supposedly knows better than to not question the media or sources of a public figure.

Again, your average Joe does not think that Poles were exterminating Jews

"Survey says?"** BZZZzzzzrt!**
um Yes..the AVERAGE American would so think the worst! the structure of the grammar would make Polish a possessive noun and therefore implicate that the Polish/or Poland were running the mentioned death camps

but if he really starts doing some research

BZZZT!
the average American would research...would question what a news source quoted?
0_0
I must live in an alternate dimension U.S. last 40 years then. I have lived East -West -North- and South when in country. I am mostly of Bohemian(now Czech) ancestry born in Texas btw.

In Dallas? maybe a look at internet...because it has high Jewish population and the curiosity combined with better education. However, average American doesn't give Poland a first though.. bad or good. Most Americans barely know where Poland even is... "Thats Eastern Block like Russia right?" In El Paso... "those dirty pollacks were killing those poor kikes in the war...who knew?"

Or in the South? "It is near France where Pollaks and Sausage comes from, right?"
Despite my private education mostly at perrochial school, I would have known even less than my little, but I liked teutonic history and fell in love with the winged hussars, plus my father was very positive in his admiration for his fellow pilots from Poland during the war.

Maybe in Your America the average Joe is a scion of informed worldliness and even knows in advance who they are voting into their local municipalities and circuit courts. Heh!

My America as far as Cali in Orange, LA, SanBernadino and Sonoma, WA, TX, AZ, OK, VA, KY, TN, NC, SC, FL, IL and AL?

LOLOLOL in MY America? the editor of a SC paper in a college town asked me what I "wonted" and said they want do it...and repeated these and other phonetic spelling all through the official communication.

In my America..my normally democratic grandma voted Ronald Reagan because he was such a handsome actor. Most my friends voted for Clinton because he promised no taxes. Not one even knew he was ever a governor! Including alumni from Judson School!

LOL... the AVERAGE american knows better... the average american in the 40s supported NOT getting involved in WW2. AT ALL. Yet never questioned the sudden involvement in the war being so well timed. Our Seated President at the time, trolled the public and used a controversial grey areas to present a "sneak attack with no warning to stir up the populace up. that is all researchable history as well..and you still hear of the sneaky Japs. LOL. Because it was entrenched incorrect by the media for years.

True the Japanese tried to use a grey area by late declaration, that got later because of translation. The Japanese ambassador was instructed to deliver his message just before the planned attack,

BUT our US cryptographers had the message copied and decoded even before the embassy could do so. DOH! The President took a CALCULATED risk expecting collateral damage to garner the support he wanted.

Ambasador of Japan indeed was a few hours late in delivering the proper message.
The only real difference was the spin. The leaders of both countries knew full well they planned war that winter, and the specifics were all that was lacking.

As an example, a couple of weeks before that, General Marshall had given a secret briefing (Of course record releases later gave the full story) to select members of the Washington press corps in which he told them that the US strategy in the upcoming war would be to bomb/burn the major Japanese cities to the ground

POINT? LAWLZ at "Average American KNOWS better" I served my country with pride most of my years in service..but I am not gonna say we are something we are not. The average Joe of any country only cares about employment, price of food and retirement..all other concerns are nominal unless interfereing with said pursuits.

Are you like anti polish or something?

he might find something about antisemitizm in Poland before the war, maybe run into something about Jedwabne, or how about many pious, church going Poles that think Jews killed their Jesus.. be careful what you wish for.

This has WHAT to do with the high percentage of average people who would belive media spin? Are you saying its okay to let an incorrect fact stand publically because a few average Joes in Poland had opinions that were bigoted?

Antisemitizm was common in MANY places before the War. INCLUDING the US. ESPECIALLLY the SOUTH (and lts say that ALL Southerners not only hated Jews but are secret KKK members.And profited by slavery. That was once widely believed and even stated in media).

Disgruntled citizenry is not the same as government actions or policies, How many countries turned Jews away from their Borders..sometimes aggressively back to Germany before the brith of the final solution? And even after the rumors.

And our population AND our government's treatment of AMERICANS of Japanese descent certainly doesnt give us the right to call a kettle black! And it is not the only time we were guilty as a nation of such a terrible thing. We try to be the good guys but we can't wipe the few black marks off by sinply saying the other guy was worse.

and all traditional Christians and also Muslims acknowledge that the Jews of the time were directly instrumental in the death of Christ... not just Poles or Catholics.. so not sure where that is going?

maybe run into something about Jedwabne

MAYBE YOU should have researched it before throwing it out there...the horrible masacre of half the 700+ population of Jews in that town that no longer exits...followed some real feeling of hostility towards Jews. There is never any excuse for savagery, but the catalyst was there.

Trying to say its okay to say that Poles ran death camps by using a small town's shame as example? is misleading and cheap shot.

Like the part where the town primarily was ETHNICALLY Polish Germans with a few Germans left over form first occupation and with Soviet occupying for nearly 3 years after Germans totally crushed the local resistance and tehn handed the reins to Stalin. As well as Polish peasants and Polish Jews.

Jews WELCOMED and assisted the Russians rather than have Nazis. They openly helped rounding up and dismantling the local government. 20k+ ethnically Polish families..men women and children were deported from the region.. . many of the openly jewish Polish defectors were in admisitrative positions overseeing these times.Many of the militiamen in the roundups were openly former jewish citizens. That story has NO clean hands so should not be held up as anything but tragic.
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jan 2013 #42
Whatever your experience is, Rysavy, I'm sorry, it certainly is not mine. Are you around any educated people at all? My point was that people around me are aware of WWII history, but have no clue how antisemitic many Poles were, and still are.

I really do wish I knew what your point was: grammar? states you lived in? silliness of American media? religion? communists?
Rysavy 10 | 308
3 Jan 2013 #43
Are you around any educated people at all?

0_0
Ah ..are we wanting to get personal? :/ How about YOU?

define educated..how many of your family/friends teach...? how many hold BA? or Doctorates? How many are engineers? researchers? Designers? Physicians? How many of your friends? how many countries you been to? lived in? States?

Though I guess my asking if you are anti polish could be considered snarky... but really you mentioned no other "offenders" and are defending the position that incorrect information being released by media is okay. That no one can possible misunderstand it because a small section of people you know as basis, is reason enough to let it satnd.

And you repeat about how your educated "friends have no idea how antisemetic Poles still are ( you still seem to want to accuse Poles in particular instead of using word "people"). So it can make one wonder if you don't like Polish in a general way, no? How anti jew were/are ...hungarians? lithuanians?Chinese? native American nations? can you recall without google, or ever knew?

I dont know if you are obtuse or being snarky: THE POINT- the average Joe DOES NOT know better

I also made posts that refuted the way you presented the topics of antsemitism and the tragedy of 1941 as uniquely bad Polish, as if the whole nation and it's Government was behind such views and the historical atrocity. That was simply unfair and untrue.

Regardless of your small personal enviroment... or my current small enviroment in Podunk NC ; the middle of average Joe would not know better.
MY other Point is: It is the habit that you (and others) say the average Joe..the majority knows this or that; like you had some article or statistic or personal experience of being around large section of population,

You now clarify ...um well My circle of educated friends. Well if that is case..what would you or they know of an average Joe anyway? And you threw out all those very incomplete and biased pieces of history to ? (my turn to seem obtuse) support it being okay to infer that Poland ran death camps?

Yes, presently I am around people that didn't go far. I moved from Florida only a couple months ago. I normally live in Arizona, if not needs of employer. But also educated people are around me often even here in Podunk because the non-local specialty instructors for my autistic child.

maybe somewhere I was less clear..? I prolly just the late hour...sorry. I have ocasionally been accused of making redundantly long communications. Plus I may have added uneeded information to show why I cared enough to even know a smidgeon of Polish history when my EU family history was mostly in Prague and Budejovice. Or to refute/debate a statement.

My ENVIROMENT- "educated people at all?" I have also lived abroad via my dad &Uncle Sam. I had tutors a lot while traveling. My dad and I sailed to S.A, then crossed the Atlantic and spent a year+ exploring interests and re-contacting family(Um look up Judson School and WHY I am not convinced an AVERAGE American education is going to produce a savy customer . For that matter ANY ROOKER in the state of Texas teaching at UT or A&M or any PREWITT. Or Wiez teaching in Sao Paulo area. FYI My normal enviroment is around a HIGHLY educated family that I am one of the few that doesn't hold a doctorate or teach in Math, Engineering, Physics, Marine Biology etc. tho Uncle Sonny was Intermural Coach). My "experience" is that I have met ALL sorts from ALL over. So can safely say have a better than usual idea who average Joe is and what he knows.

all this WW2 posting should prolly go to its own thread.... since OP point was that the President of a sovereign nation stated in public media a negative incorrect phrase -gramatically at best or biased historically at worst- about an allied nation...and issued no apology. Nor was it the first time he stumbled on slighting that same nation.("What about Poland?").
Ironside 49 | 10,101
3 Jan 2013 #44
Are you like anti polish or something?

sure thing she is anti-polish
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jan 2013 #45
f stop: Are you around any educated people at all? 0_0
Ah ..are we wanting to get personal? :/ How about YOU?

sorry if it took it this way, but I was really dismayed by the low opinion you have of Americans around you. I figured their education might have something to do with it. Most of people I know love history channel and are very vocal about their knowledge and opinions of WWII. Similar to what I see here, at times.

Anyway, we are arguing about what average joe knows, really?? LOL
Fine, lets assume the YOUR kind of average joe knows nothing about Poland. I'd say he probably does not listen to President's speeches anyway, so who cares?

My point was, AGAIN, that calling such attention to "Polish camps" opened the door for those crackpots that believe that there was much more to this than a simple semantic error. Why is that so hard to understand?
4 eigner 2 | 831
3 Jan 2013 #46
Are you around any educated people at all?

damn, I was always wanting to ask you the same question after you stated that whoever believes in God is a fool, LOL
f stop 25 | 2,513
3 Jan 2013 #47
4 eigner
go away troll
Wroclaw Boy
3 Jan 2013 #48
I was always wanting to ask you the same question after you stated that whoever believes in God is a fool,

They're not generally regarded fools as yet but they will be.

In a few hundred years people will look back on todays religious as we look back on those that used to burn witches. People used to think that the world was flat............till it was proved otherwise.
OP pawian 168 | 11,130
3 Jan 2013 #49
Back to topic.

Do you remember the priest whose knees children were licking at a camp? In December interview the priest accuses media of blowing the affair beyond any limits. He said that such rites had been a norm in his school for many years and students treated it as enjoyable fooling around. Only a perverted mind may notice sth improper in the photos depicting tha act of licking.

But he also declared the end of initiation rites in the school.

Father Kozyra: No more hazing

"I think the only perverted mind concludes from photos taken out of context that children licked knees of father director! - Says Fr. Marcin Kozyra, director of the Salesian school.

I heard: "Schoolgirls licked (!) the whipped cream from priest knees. Parents called us ". I was speechless ... What licking? Who are the parents? But parents knew of their children how hazing really looked like! I tried to explain, but I had the impression that journalists are not interested in the facts. I asked also not to be recorded. They made it using a hidden camera. At the end they said, "the material will be aired tonight."

fronda.pl/a/ks-kozyra-otrzesin-juz-nie-bedzie,24432.html
Ironside 49 | 10,101
4 Jan 2013 #50
They're not generally regarded fools as yet but they will be.

In a few hundred years people will look back on todays religious as we look back on those that used to burn witches. People used to think that the world was flat............till it was proved otherwise.

Yeah, there is about 5000 years of written history and still religion in one form or the other do play important part in peoples lives. So, you prediction is just wishful thinking.
f stop 25 | 2,513
4 Jan 2013 #51
5000 years?? You're making his point by including the sun worshiping as "important part in people's lives", Ironside.
Ironside 49 | 10,101
4 Jan 2013 #52
5000 years??

At least!

You're making his point by including the sun worshiping as "important part in people's lives", Ironside.

Religion is religion! N'est ce pas?
BBman - | 344
4 Jan 2013 #53
"Polish death camps"

"Polish death camps" is understood as the camps being Polish. When I say" f stop's car", i mean the car belongs to f stop not pawian.
f stop 25 | 2,513
4 Jan 2013 #54
don't be daft. Poland is a geographical boundry, pawian translates to baboon.
Ant63 11 | 403
4 Jan 2013 #55
" f stop's car"

You are correct. Apostrophe S mens it is belonging too.

Hector Schmidt and Stirling Moss were driving for Mercedes. The English car was in front.

It's implied that its an English car but we know its a German car driven by an Englishman.

Connotations.
1jola 14 | 1,879
4 Jan 2013 #56
In fifty years, what will a teenager understand from "The Cuban concentration camp in Guantanamo" or "The American terror acts in September 2001? "

What do you infer today from "the African genocide in the Belgian Congo?"
OP pawian 168 | 11,130
4 Jan 2013 #57
"The Cuban concentration camp in Guantanamo" or "The American terror acts in September 2001? "

I like it.

Do you remember the hot discussion over the case of the drunk bishop? Polish bishop caught with 2,5 promille

Today he heard the verdict: suspended 6 months in prison, driving license revoked for 4 years and a fine of 2400 zlotys.

I think it is a fair sentence.

The bishoop said: I have been undergoing a crisis in my personal life. Let this case be a lesson for me.

tvnwarszawa.tvn24.pl/informacje,news,winny-pol-roku-w-zawieszeniu-dla-biskupa-piotra-j,74408.html

Warsaw court sentenced the Bishop Peter J. for six months in prison, suspended for two years and four years of driving disqualifications. This is the penalty for driving under the influence of alcohol and running into a lamp post. The Bishop also has pay a fine of amount of 2400 zł.

October 20, 57-year-old auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Warsaw lost control of his car and hit a lamp post at Wisłostrada. Testing for the content of alcohol in the body showed more than 2.5 per mille.

Two days later, the cleric issued a statement in which he admitted to driving a car under the influence of alcohol and let himself at the Pope disposal.



Home / News / Highlights of passing year, in Poland (or elsewhere) which made hot discussions in PF
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.