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Is Poland headed for a civil war?


Polskiej_Dumy 18 | 66
19 Oct 2010 #1
With all the political issues between the two main parties, the plane crash being blamed on the government, and the recent assasination on Rosiak by the man who wanted to kill Jaroslaw Kaczynski. Is it possible this will turn into a civil war?
Filios1 8 | 1,336
19 Oct 2010 #2
Not exactly.. one old komuch psychopath killing a PiS lawyer isn't exactly the beginnings of a civil war. But I'll say this much. Tusk and Komorowski have acted like true morons in regards to the cross issue, which was very trivial, and could have easily been settled, and quickly at that. It is almost as if they wanted to instigate even more animosity...

But still, there are not enough insane people like the old guy who assasinated Rosiak to fuel a civil war.
THE HITMAN - | 236
19 Oct 2010 #3
But still, there are not enough insane people like the old guy who assasinated Rosiak to fuel a civil war.

If prices continue to increase, making the cost of living more intolerable, then you won,t need insane people to instigate civil unrest. Hungry people are more dangerous !!
Wroclaw 44 | 5,385
19 Oct 2010 #4
an extreme winter, high prices and low wages might lead to prolems, but not civil war.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
19 Oct 2010 #5
Hungry people are more dangerous !!

What hungry people?
Zed - | 195
19 Oct 2010 #6
well, the wages have increased (a bit) again in the 3rd quarter. Inflation is negligible.....
THE HITMAN - | 236
19 Oct 2010 #7
but not civil war.

That,s why I wrote " civil unrest "

ps you missed a "b " lol.
grubas 12 | 1,390
19 Oct 2010 #8
Poland needs a revolution.Something like the French one or at least like Russian October.

What hungry people?

Right.Why they don't eat cookies?
THE HITMAN - | 236
19 Oct 2010 #9
What hungry people?

Obviously you,re one of the fortunate peolple, think about all those around you.

well, the wages have increased (a bit) again in the 3rd quarter. Inflation is negligible.....

Don,t believe everything you read, whose had pay rises ? unemployment is on the increase, yet I don,t read this anywhere.

Viva la revolution !!
grubas 12 | 1,390
19 Oct 2010 #10
well, the wages have increased (a bit) again in the 3rd quarter. Inflation is negligible.....

True.KGHM management just gave themselves 80% rise.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
19 Oct 2010 #11
Obviously you,re one of the fortunate peolple, think about all those around you.

I don't see any hungry people around me.

I wasn't aware that hunger was a problem in today's Poland.
OP Polskiej_Dumy 18 | 66
19 Oct 2010 #12
And think what will happen when Poland gets the Euro... I dont know it seems with political affiliation being seperated almost half and half with PO on the west and PiS on the east a civil war would not be so surprising.
THE HITMAN - | 236
19 Oct 2010 #13
I don't see any hungry people around me.

Like I said, fortunate, you must walk in the right circles. I see many around my neck of the woods leading a meagre existence. It ain,t pretty either. It,s sad.

I wasn't aware

Aware ...... ????????????
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
19 Oct 2010 #14
And think what will happen when Poland gets the Euro... I dont know it seems with political affiliation being seperated almost half and half with PO on the west and PiS on the east a civil war would not be so surprising.

Nothing will happen when Poland gets the Euro.

And civil war? Don't be ridiculous - what would the PiS side fight with? Pitchforks?

Like I said, fortunate, you must walk in the right circles. I see many around my neck of the woods leading a meagre existence. It ain,t pretty either. It,s sad.

The only real poverty in Poland is self made.
THE HITMAN - | 236
19 Oct 2010 #15
The only real poverty in Poland is self made.

Hope fate doesn,t deal you a cruel hand then, you might yet eat your own words.
Droma - | 8
19 Oct 2010 #16
What kind of circles do you have to walk in to find hungry people in Poland?

We spend a good bit of time with family in the countryside, in what is often referred to as Poland B. I've seen some poor people, people who can't afford to eat at restaurants or take holidays abroad, people who struggle to pay their bills and repair their car. You can find people struggling like that in any country in Europe.

But hungry people just smacks of exaggeration.

I agree with Delph "And civil war? Don't be ridiculous". For the majority of people in Poland life has improved greatly over the past decade, under all governments, and will continue to do so.
vetala - | 382
19 Oct 2010 #17
What kind of circles do you have to walk in to find hungry people in Poland?

Students ;)

I find it really strange that the guy claimed to have been trying to kill Kaczyński, yet he travelled to £ódź in order to kill him, even though everyone knows that Kaczyński is living in Warsaw. If it were anyone else, I would be suspecting that the whole incident was staged in order to blame PO, but Kaczyński isn't the sort of guy who would have random people murdered just to make Tusk look bad.
THE HITMAN - | 236
19 Oct 2010 #18
What kind of circles do you have to walk in to find hungry people in Poland?

Presently this is not rife, ( read from the first post ), but what I am saying ( post 3 ), is that should the situation get worse ( like in the future ), then a hungry person is more dangerous than an insane person. ( Delph is referring to todays Poland, as are you ).

I find it really strange that the guy claimed to have been trying to kill Kaczyński

Was this guy hungry ?
Droma - | 8
19 Oct 2010 #19
Presently this is not rife, should the situation get worse ( like in the future ), then a hungry person is more dangerous than an insane person. ( Delph is referring to todays Poland, as are you ).

- the OP was referring to events that are happening today and developing now.

True, I agree hungry people are always up for a revolution. But it's pure speculation and not based on what's happening in Poland today. If we're speculating on what might cause a civil war, we could come up with an infinite number of possibilities; shortage of gas, half the population converts to Scientology, Slask secedes and joins the Czech Republic.

As I said,

For the majority of people in Poland life has improved greatly over the past decade, under all governments, and will continue to do so

. People aren't hungry now and aren't likely to be in the future, nor will the population convert to Scientology or Slask secede to the Czech Republic. As these situations are unlikely to happen, they won't cause a civil war, which was the OP's original question
THE HITMAN - | 236
20 Oct 2010 #20
For the majority of people in Poland life has improved greatly over the past decade, under all governments, and will continue to do so.

If you believe that, then you must be one of the majority. Does the majority come from Warsaw ?
Do you call the hike in prices an improvement ?
Is this improvement continuing ? ...... I don,t think so. National debt rising, tourism in decline, less foreign investment, and so on.
After Euro 2012 is concluded, Poland will see a significant downturn, if not sooner.

As these situations are unlikely to happen, they won't cause a civil war

That,s why I wrote " civil unrest "

People aren't hungry now and aren't likely to be in the future

How can you be so sure ?

But it's pure speculation

exactly.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
20 Oct 2010 #21
Do you call the hike in prices an improvement ?

What about the dramatic hike in pensions and salaries? Unless of course, you think people are worse off now than in 1990 when the average wage was below $100 a month.

How can you be so sure ?

Because there exists a safety net for the poorest people. Of course, if they choose to spend the safety net on booze rather than food, it's their choice.

I do wonder where all these hungry people are, because I've visited some terribly poor (in comparison to the West) parts of Poland and no-one was hungry there. Heck, how the hell can someone be hungry when you can buy a kilo of potatoes for less than 1zl?
Droma - | 8
20 Oct 2010 #22
If you believe that, then you must be one of the majority. Does the majority come from Warsaw ?

No, the majority come from urban cities and towns in Central and Western Poland.

Do you call the hike in prices an improvement ?

No, I call it inflation and it's a problem in Poland.

Is this improvement continuing ? ...... I don,t think so. National debt rising, tourism in decline, less foreign investment, and so on.

I'm not going to go digging for facts for you on the internet, you bring up to many issues. But broadly speaking, GDP is up, wages are up, disposable income is up, house ownership is up and employment has dropped dramatically, even taking into account migration. That's a pretty good hand. To address your points specifically; National Debt is up in most capitalist countries. The various pros and cons of national debt and credit borrowing are a much bigger discussion, but frankly Poland is in much better shape than many other countries. While tourism is currently experiencing a dip, it is, over ten year and five year periods massively up, and the dip will not return it to its previously poor levels. I'm not really sure how important tourism is to national well being anyway. FDI is down because the world economy is down and much of that dip has been replaced by EU investment.

How can you be so sure ?

The burden of proof is not on me, but on you. You made the statement. Why are there going to be food shortages? I can't be sure half the population aren't Scientologists, that Slask isn't plotting to defect or that Wednesday follows Tuesday, but I'm pretty sure.
THE HITMAN - | 236
20 Oct 2010 #23
I do wonder where all these hungry people are

Does anyone read properly here and understand the word hypothetical ?

What about the dramatic hike in pensions and salaries?

All relative to the cost of living between 1990 and today. Probably better off with 100 dollars back in 1990.

I'm not going to go digging for facts for you on the internet

Likewise. That,s why I asked if people on here know what hypothetical means.
Keep it light, no offence to anyone, time to say good-night, nice debating with you guys.
Til next time, cheers.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
20 Oct 2010 #24
Does anyone read properly here and understand the word hypothetical ?

Hypothetically, anything could happen. But you said you know where there are lots of hungry people - so - where? I've even been to former PGR areas and they weren't hungry there.

All relative to the cost of living between 1990 and today. Probably better off with 100 dollars back in 1990.

Better? The country had to pay market rate suddenly for things such as oil and gas. The country was genuinely poor and people were genuinely in financial trouble suddenly. It isn't happening now.
THE HITMAN - | 236
20 Oct 2010 #25
But you said you know where there are lots of hungry people - so - where?

Lots and many are two different words, as is war and unrest, and meagre and hungry, Why are you trying to twist my statements to your own understanding ?

Where ? .... I assure you, it exists, and for many.
I quote from a TV report on Polish children, " I like going to school because at least I get a dinner there ". What does that statement tell you ?

It isn't happening now.

Of course it is, only more easily available credit is on hand now. Any idea of the figure of debt per capita ?
OP Polskiej_Dumy 18 | 66
21 Oct 2010 #26
Wow you guys clearly don't live in Poland or at least in a nice part. Especially you delphiandomine! Are kidding me?? I see hungry people in Poland all the time.
jwojcie 2 | 763
21 Oct 2010 #27
The thing with hungry people in Poland is often like that (recent live example, small town in central Poland, old lady I know very well and local "hungry" man) :

hungry man: Mrs could you give me some money for bread ?
old lady: Hm.. no, but I can give you bread
hungry man: Errr... no, no, I would rather take some coins, I would like to buy something to make sandwiches.
old lady: but I can also make you some sandwiches
hungry man: no,no,no I would rather take some coins...

Everyone knows what he would like to buy... It is quite typical... She of course didn't give him any money...

Saying that, of course there are hungry people in Poland but it is usually connected with some social problems.

As for open question, no Poland is not headed for civil war. Eventually Poles will vote off entire political spectrum and will choose some new faces as usual but maybe just not yet. On local level nation wide parties are often weak (surprisingly for those who do not live in Poland and take info only from media).
Seanus 15 | 19,706
21 Oct 2010 #28
Poles were brought together by Smoleńsk and politics won't drive a wedge between them when push comes to shove. Many Poles like arguing and raising their voices but nothing really becomes of it. Battling, yes. War, no.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
22 Oct 2010 #29
I quote from a TV report on Polish children, " I like going to school because at least I get a dinner there ". What does that statement tell you ?

It tells me that the parents drank all the money intended to feed the child. Common social problem in Poland, not helped by ineffective social services. The child might be hungry, but only because of parental failure - not because they're lacking money.

Wow you guys clearly don't live in Poland or at least in a nice part. Especially you delphiandomine! Are kidding me?? I see hungry people in Poland all the time.

How do you know they're hungry? Are you assuming that homeless people are hungry? Bear in mind that Poland is actually quite good when it comes to providing shelter for homeless people - provided they give up the booze.

Saying that, of course there are hungry people in Poland but it is usually connected with some social problems.

Spot on. I was researching the social assistance available - and while it's hardly much money, it's still enough for people not to be going hungry. It might be a pretty crappy diet (potatoes and cabbage, anyone?) - but food is food. Of course, if the parents take the money and drink it all - then that's not hunger caused by a lack of money, but a social problem.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,945
22 Oct 2010 #30
Grunwaldicshe Patrioten are allready meeting up at Grunwald with an hidden agenda!
I can't say what they want to do at the moment, but civil war is closing in!!!
(LOL)


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