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Good-change government raising minimum wage in Poland, cutting SB pensions



OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
28 Jun 2016  #91

political party are doing to Polish media.

GW, Newsweek TVN and others are spewing their anti-governemtn vitriol and hate speech with impuinity. KOD's street ranters continue to malign, insult, discredit
and badmouth PiS and suffer no consequences as a result. You seem to have fallen into the trap of the oppsopiton's own propaganda, if you make such weird statements.


smurf 39 | 1,999    
28 Jun 2016  #92

GW, Newsweek TVN and others are spewing their anti-governemtn vitriol and hate speech with impuinity

Public media

#dingbat

You seem to have fallen into the trap of the oppsopiton's own propaganda, if you make such weird statements

Yea, sure amte.
I don't read any Polish media coz as far as I'm concerned they are all as bad as each other. PiS though are worse than each since they aim to have complete control over the publically owned media.

But a fan of PRL such as yourself woudn't really have a problem with that.

hey, ya never know, you might actually get a media job out of it? :D :D :D
jon357 70 | 12,786    
28 Jun 2016  #93

badmouth PiS and suffer no consequences as a result

You were complaining about a lack of freedom of speech just now. Make your mind up...
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
28 Jun 2016  #94

But a fan of PRL

What ever gave you that cock-eyed idea. I know lefists are a dotty lot, but even by those standards that really takes the biscuit!

Every country's governing administration exerts influence and control on state-owned public media. Poland's are now national media, meaning that they serve the nation rather than than purely commercial ends.

Merged: Poland to slash bloated pensions of communist-era secret police

Interior Minister Mariusz Błaszczak has unveiled a proposed draft law under which the maximum old-age pensions for former Security Service (SB) agents will be no higher than the average pension or 2,131 złotys ($535) a month. Disability pensions for secret-police agents may not exceed 1,610 złotys ($405). Błaszczak said: "This is an expression of social justice. Former officers of the Security Service still have high pensions, and this bill corrects these errors. A sense of social justice must triumph in society. We do not agree to officers of the security apparatus receiving such high payouts for suppressing our country's freedom and independence." The previous PO-led government did make a half-hearted attempt to downscale some SB pensions, but retired agents continue to receive monthly payouts many times above the national average.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
13 Jul 2016  #95

Isn't there a thread about this rubbish already?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
13 Jul 2016  #96

Isn't there a thread about this

That's what the mods are for. I have nothing against my threads being merged or consigned to off-topic as they see fit.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,152    
13 Jul 2016  #97

"thread about this rubbish already"

Why is the posting rubbish, it is very poignant topic, those "(SB) agents " were being rewarded for oppressing and enslaving the Polish people for decades, they are very fortunate that they get anything at all, and lucky they are not investigated and serving long prison sentences for crimes they may have committed against the Polish people.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
13 Jul 2016  #98

lucky they are not investigated and serving long prison sentences for crimes they may have committed against the Polish people.

You're perfectly correct, they should have been investigated and given fair trials for any crimes that they committed. Here in Poland we have the rule of law; we do not have guilt by association. Only guilty people are punished and everybody is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Merely having been a member of an organisation which had as one of its roles suppressing dissidents is not a crime; if it was, we'd have to start by locking up Chairman Kaczynski, given that he volunteered to prosecute dissidents as a state prosecutor (although we would need to give him time off for having never actually prosecuted any, due to political events overtaking his training).
Ziemowit 8 | 2,572    
13 Jul 2016  #99

It would be interesting to know how they tackled this same problem of the pensions of STASI (the former SB of the former DDR) members in Germany after the re-unification of that country. Did the federal government of Germany leave their undoubtedly fat pensions resulting from their DDR-era wages untouched or not? Likewise, what did the Czech government do with the pensions of their former SB agents? If anyone knows, it would be a good basis for comparing those actions to the actions of the PiS government in Poland.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
13 Jul 2016  #100

crimes that they committed

They were criminals by virtue of serving a criminal regime dripping with blood, just as the Gestapo were for serving the horrific 3rd Reich. They evaded justice only because your your soft-on-commies round-table clique had prevented decommunsation and made a mockery of lustration to save their own skins and failed to declare the PZPR a criminal organisation. Presumably you also condemn the de-Nazification programme carried out by the US in post-war Germany.

But you can't see that becasue you're blind

Of course I see it. After 8 years of slanted pro-PO/a anti-PiS propaganda spewed by Tusk's compliant media stooges, the Polish people are entitled to see the other side of the question. At least now, the national media regularly invite opposition types to comment on every single isseu that that coems along, so people can get both sides of a given story.

STASI

You may find this link interesting:
reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2jkalw/how_were_members_of_the_stasi_handled_during/
Harry 79 | 13,413    
13 Jul 2016  #101

They were criminals by virtue of serving a criminal regime dripping with blood

Fine, so let's give them a trial to determine their guilt. At the moment they are innocent, just as Chairman Kaczynski is innocent despite having volunteered to prosecute dissidents during the commie era. In Poland only guilty people are punished.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,152    
13 Jul 2016  #102

That's an idea Harry we could have a McCarthy style investigation.

Probably cost more to Jail the guilty than give them pension
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
13 Jul 2016  #103

In Poland only guilty people are punished.

In post-commie round-table Poland only those the clique regarded as criminals were punished and that let out the torturers, murderers and blackmailers of loyal, patriotic Poles. It was no court of law but only the clique that decided to prevent decommunsition, and that is why the guilty were never brought to justice. Jaruzeski's stalling, bogus sick leaves and change of defence councilors in mid-stream to delay and derail his trial only compromised the Tusk administration. A truly impartial judge would have declared Jaruzel's judicial ploys as obsrtruction of justice and even ordered the trial to be continued in his hospital room.

And if the Israelis were able to track down Eichmann all the way to Argentina after years of trying, how much easier would it have been for a Free Poland commando to pose as a tourist in Sweden and bring back fugitive Stalinist desk-top murderer Michnik for whom an arrest warrant had been out for years. The only thing lacking was a political will. It was lacking because ex-commies and ex-SB agents and their paid informers formed the backbone of the post-commie establishment known as III RP.

having volunteered to prosecute dissidents

You've repeated this Harryesque lie at least 17 times or maybe 29. No proof? No link? Who would take Harry's word for anything?"!

repeated this Harryesque lie at least 17

When cornered, PF's liar laureate simply falls silent and hides under a rock. Can't really blame him though. Now he's only got lower-case to help out. Delph has deserted the forum in pursuit of wider horizons, although he pops back now and again under different aliases.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
13 Jul 2016  #104

You've repeated this Harryesque lie at least 17 times or maybe 29. No proof?

Just read his biography, the bit from the early 1970s.

No link?

Only in Polish, so I can't post it here (unless a mod gives it the OK).
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
14 Jul 2016  #105

I can't post it here

You can post it in the po polsku section. BTW why don't you ever contribute anything to it being how very Polish youclaim to be? The Anglo-expats never contribtue a bloody thing to po polsku.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
14 Jul 2016  #106

You can post it in the po polsku section.

Actually I can post it here, I'll just translate it.

W 1971 uzyskał miejsce na aplikacji prokuratorskiej w Warszawie, której jednak nie rozpoczął
In 1971 he won a place as a trainee public prosecutor in Warsaw, which, however, did not start.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaros%C5%82aw_Kaczy%C5%84ski

being how very Polish you claim to be?

Are you telling off-topic lies about me in the hope that your trolling will drive the thread off-topic and we will not discuss what punishment should be imposed on somebody who volunteered to prosecute dissidents?

Probably cost more to Jail the guilty than give them pension

Yes, but if they are found guilty we could seize their assets. For example we could seize formerly state-owned villa that's worth millions and now owned by a back-bench MP who volunteered to prosecute dissidents.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
14 Jul 2016  #107

volunteered to prosecute dissidents?

You are one a*sehole! You made up the stuff about dissidents. Prosecutors handle mainly criminal cases even in PRL. They would not assign a rooky who had taken part in the March '68 student protests and was not in the party to deal with dissidents. Only their most loyal stooges got such assignments. In a totaliatrian state such as PRL everyone in the media, academia, law and many other fields was under constant SB surveillance.

So you want to punish someone who never became a prosecutor's trainee, but if he had he might have prosecuted dissidents. Meanwhile fugitive Jew Michnik HAS BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. and yet no-one has ever heard a peep out of you about that. His bastard brother Adam has called Jaruzel & Kiszczak "men of honour". That has totally disqualified him from ever being taken seriously in any subsequent evaluations or opinions. And again -- Harryesque acqueisence though silence. You are pathetic!
3legs    
16 Jul 2016  #108

poles in general are quite vindictive,racist and rather greedy. the **** brigade are taking advantage of this and pandering to the borak, bible bashing vote . throw in a bit of blatant bribery and hey presto........thay are popular. i just hope they have nt bankrupted the country by the time the next generation grows up and the bunch of paranoid rusky haters take up permanent residency in the church grounds. they are not daft though, paying peasants to breed is a shrewd plan
Oziębło    
16 Jul 2016  #109

The Poles I know are capable of getting rid of any belief, which would protect them from misfortune, if the truth be compromised: because 'ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free'. They never admire naked force and do not feel hatred for their enemies and never dispise the unlucky ones.
3legs    
16 Jul 2016  #110

you really do not know many poles!
Oziębło    
16 Jul 2016  #111

It may be, but I know the true Poles and the true Men and Women too.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
16 Jul 2016  #112

Is there an untrue kind?
Oziębło    
16 Jul 2016  #113

Yes, there is. Unfortunately, but the true Pole is the divine adornment of humanity.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
16 Jul 2016  #114

Yes, there is

Maybe expand on that...
peterweg 36 | 2,270    
20 Jul 2016  #115

Merged: PiS at the Trough

What a Surprise..

Poland's ruling party Law and Justice (PiS) submitted to Sejm lower house a bill envisaging wage hikes for top cabinet and local authorities officials.

The raises will include, among others, the president, prime minister, cabinet ministers and their deputies, as well as MPs and Senators.
Also, the First Lady will be given a monthly salary of PLN 14,000, according to the Bill

warsawvoice.pl/WVpage/pages/article.php/36088/news
jon357 70 | 12,786    
20 Jul 2016  #116

I don't mind the wage hike (and it could actually be higher) so much as long as there are restrictions on them doing other paid work, especially as lawyers, while holding public office.

Same with the First Lady thing: most of them (Kwasniewska, Komorowska) had careers that they had to put on hold during their term of office and they are also expected to be a bit of a clothes horse when the President carries out engagements.

A bigger worry is the cronyism and TKM attitude that PiS are known for. Better to make public appointments less vulnerable to political change.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
20 Jul 2016  #117

less vulnerable to political change

Spoken like a true defender of the post-commie status quo!
jon357 70 | 12,786    
20 Jul 2016  #118

Spoken like

Spoken like someone who is highly critical of mass firings on political grounds.
mafketis 16 | 4,720    
20 Jul 2016  #119

Spoken like a true defender of the post-commie status quo!

Spoken like someone who is still stuck in 1992.... and bvtt hurt about it.

No one cares about the "post-commie roundtable elite" or whatever except antiquated old fossils like you (and defenseless children whose minds have been poisoned).
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
20 Jul 2016  #120

No one cares about the "post-commie roundtable elite"

And that is precisely why they have been able to get away with all their hand-washes-hand schemes ad scamsfor so many year. Glib and slippery politicans spouting nice-sounding propaganda have enabled the "układ" (post-commie mafia) to line their pockets and live on a silver cloud since 1989 at the expense of the Polish nation. Fortunely, that is now changing and injustices are being righted. But we cannot hold it against the frustrated opposition. No-one likes to go from riches to rags!



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