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Good-change government raising minimum wage in Poland, cutting SB pensions



Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #1

The PiS government have announced yet another "good change" -- plans to raise minimum wage to 2000 zł and bring bloated SB pensions down to the average level. At present, the retired tormentors of Polish patriots are receiving pensions many times greater than those of the victims they oppressed.


Harry 79 | 13,413    
15 Jun 2016  #2

plans to raise minimum wage to 2000 zł

Interesting to see that they are announcing this as a plan. Clearly they would like us to forget that before the election they promised that within the first 100 days of an PIS pgovernment they would increase the minimum wage to above 2000 zloty per month.
mafketis 16 | 4,720    
15 Jun 2016  #3

yet another "good change" -- plans to raise minimum wage to 2000 zł and bring bloated SB pensions down

I have no problem with reducing SB pensions but minimum wage laws never work the way those who propose them hope they will.

If those in PiS want to take some geography lessons, they might start with Greece and Venezuela to see where unrealistic economic policies tend to end up....

(or they could look at 1970s Poland which had exactly the same problem, a government promising goodies with money that wasn't there).

Pomożecie?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #4

they promised that within the first 100 days

As a fan of a party (PO) that never kept a single promise, it's surprising you choose to nit pick over time frames. As it is, no other party since 1989 has achieved as much and created so much good-change legislation in half a year as PiS.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
15 Jun 2016  #5

If those in PiS want to take some geography lessons, they might start with Greece and Venezuela to see where unrealistic economic policies tend to end up....

Yes, basically Argentina without the beef, and it isn't exactly the first (or even third) time Poland has been bankrupt.

Stripping elderly people of their occupational pensions will make no difference either way to the economy and is just an act of small-mindedness. I disapproved when the last government mucked about with the pensions of ex-security services people and it is still every bit as tawdry.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
15 Jun 2016  #6

I have no problem with reducing SB pensions

As they are taking action against a former SB members, when will the 18% regime also take action against the people who volunteered to prosecute dissidents in the communist era? Such as, for example, Chairman Kaczynski. And how about also taking action against the people who used the connections they made while collaborating with the Communists, SB personnel and others, to purchase formerly state-owned property at knockdown prices?

As it is, no other party since 1989 has achieved as much and created so much good-change legislation in half a year as PiS.

Care to remind us how many of the things promised for the first hundred days have been brought in as promised? I make it none. And of the ones partially brought in none are funded sustainably.
Ironside 44 | 8,292    
15 Jun 2016  #7

and bring bloated SB pensions down to the average level.

Shouldn't pay them anything at all.

Stripping elderly people of their occupational pensions will make no difference either way to the economy and is just an act of small-mindedn

No, that an act of justice.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
15 Jun 2016  #8

No, that an act of justice.

Taking pensions from old people for political reasons?

Very small-minded and vindictive.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
15 Jun 2016  #9

Shouldn't pay them anything at all.

You don't, we do, I'm fine with it.

No, that an act of justice.

In the Polish justice system people are innocent until proven guilty; how of these people have had a trial and been given a guilty verdict?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #10

Greece and Venezuela

Every country is different, different traditions, mentality and value system. One can learn from other countries but direct copying is rarely succesful. That's the major flaw of the EU who want to impose a single, liberal-lefstream orientation on all member states.

Besides the govt is not saying it will pay workers out of the state budget to achieve the 2000 zł level. Employers will be acting illegally if they pay their workers less. Since the non-altruistic ones may be tempted to raise prices on their goods and services, a govt watchdog should publicly stigmatise those that do so. They can make up the lose by cutting overhead, dividends and fat-cat salaries.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
15 Jun 2016  #11

Not my quote, Po, kindly amend...
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #12

tripping elderly people of their occupational pensions

Like the PO heist of OFE pensions in broad daylight. Occupational indeed! SB types are not ordinary people but traitors and tormentors of their own nation in the service of an alien Soviet power. You somehow don't seem much concerned that the SB's many victims are living hand to mouth while their oppressors enjoy fat-cat pensions. Is that KOD style freedom, democracy or equality?
Ironside 44 | 8,292    
15 Jun 2016  #13

Taking pensions from old people for political reasons?

For the right reasons, If they want they pension should call PRL or Soviet Union to pay them. They got more than enough already.

In the Polish

Well , they have never worked for the Polish state. There is no reason for the state to give them even a single cooper from its coffers.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #14

state-owned property at knockdown prices?

Was the 27 sq m Jana Pawła flat provided at a knock-down price by your CPGB masters or did you get it for free?
jon357 70 | 12,786    
15 Jun 2016  #15

For the right reasons

It's actually an appalling reason. One thing you should never do is change the goalposts for the elderly. End of story.
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #16

elderly

Elderly SB (Soviet Gestapo) types should live out their days in prison. That should have also befallen Jaruzelski, Kiszczak and a few other top PRL honchos. That is called justice.
Ironside 44 | 8,292    
15 Jun 2016  #17

It's actually an appalling reason. One thing you should never do is change the goalposts for the elder

It is appalling that for 26 years victims were struggling to make a living while they oppressors enjoyed lush luxury lives on their expense. Why would you side with an oppressive totalitarian regime and its thugs?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #18

side with an oppressive totalitarian regime

Because the PC dictatorship which lower-case jon so adores are just a step away from such a regime. They already have people who don't subscribe to their leftstream agenda sacked, demoted or otherwise harrassed. They haven't resorted to physical vioence.....YET, but give them time!
jon357 70 | 12,786    
15 Jun 2016  #19

Why would you side with an oppressive totalitarian regime and its thugs?

Why would you want to hurt elderly people, often in their 90s, some of whom can't remember what they had for breakfast let alone what happened at work 50 years ago.

And remember, these people were serving their country, whether you share their politics or not.

A typical piece of PiS vindictiveness. Jaroslaw Kaczynski has "mściwy written through him like Blackpool Rock.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
15 Jun 2016  #20

Why would you want to hurt elderly people, often in their 90s, some of whom can't remember what they had for breakfast let alone what happened at work 50 years ago.

Why would you want to hurt innocent elderly people who've been charged with nothing and convicted of nothing. If merely doing a particular job is enough to be punished, why aren't the 18% regime pushing to punish those who volunteered to prosecute dissidents, such as Chairman Kaczynski?

Was the 27 sq m Jana Pawła flat provided at a knock-down price by your CPGB masters or did you get it for free?

Is your off-topic ad hom trolling a signal that you're unwilling and unable to tell us how many of the things promised for the first hundred days have been brought in as promised by the 18% regime?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #21

these people were serving their country

Those people were opporuntists receiving 60 pieces of silver from the Soviet occupation system. No-one beeieved in communism, as Polish PZPR members were called radishes: thinly and opportunistically red on the outside. They all knew about Katyń but lied, engaged in and viewed close up the torture techniques, pulled fingernails, drenching vicitims with water in the icy cold, forcing them to sit naked on the leg of an upturned stool (hmmm, there are some orientations that might find that pleasurable?"!), depriving them of food, water and sleep for days on end, beating and haranguing them into signing false confessions...and to think lower case is shedding weepy tears over those poor elderly Soviet Gestapo types. What about the octogenarians now being tried and convicted of Nazi crimes in other countries? Do you also regard them as poor, elderly victims of circumstances?
jon357 70 | 12,786    
15 Jun 2016  #22

Those people were opporuntists

From you that is staggering.

eceiving 60 pieces of silver from the Soviet occupation system.

In your opinion. Others would say they were serving their country.

No-one beeieved in communism

Except for the communists...

torture techniques,

And do you favour stripping the pensions of General Franco's torturers?
Harry 79 | 13,413    
15 Jun 2016  #23

What about the octogenarians now being tried and convicted of Nazi crimes in other countries?

Once they've been tried and convicted, people should be punished according to applicable law. The people PIS propose to punish have been convicted of nothing, just as you have been convicted of nothing. Would you accept punishment without fair trial and conviction?

Anyway, back to the news you want us to ignore, the 18% regime announcing plans for something they promised would happen in the first 100 days. How stupid do they think voters are?
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #24

How stupid do they think voters are?

40% stupid! PiS is now scoring the highest support ever, up from the 38% that won them the election. And where is Petru? Off on yet another snitching expediton. 8 years of PO misrule taught Poles to be very wary about promises. Apparently they believe PiS are doing a good job.
terri 1 | 1,243    
15 Jun 2016  #25

>>>>>How stupid do they think voters are?
A politician once, not realizing that the microphone was still on said:...Ciemny narod wszystko kupi (and in English....Stupid, uneducated people will buy anything), or ...and this is so much better....Mushrooms need $hit thrown at them. (Here 'mushrooms' refers to people being kept in the dark)
OP Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
15 Jun 2016  #26

That's what the Soviet-backed PZPR propaganda machine claimed trying to equate support for Soviet-imosed dictatorship with patriotism.

There were some 2 million PZPR members, of which number maybe 3-5% were dyed-in-the-wool-commies, mainly the then elderly Judaeo-Commies of the KPP who had survived Stalin's purges.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
15 Jun 2016  #27

There were some 2 million PZPR members

No, there were more than ten million Poles who joined the commie Party; at its peak it had the best part of four million members, is which is close to 18% of those eligible to join - ironic to see that number again - why aren't the 18% regime planning to punish those millions? And why aren't they planning to punish those who volunteered to prosecute dissidents, such as Chairman Kaczynski?

But then given how they're again announcing plans to do what they promised to do what they said they'd do in the first 100 days, perhaps logic isn't their strong point.
Ironside 44 | 8,292    
15 Jun 2016  #28

Why would you want to hurt elderly people, often in their 90s

What you about? This is about people who are in their 80', 70', 60' and some are even 56 or less. All of them enjoyed not only privileged position for the last 26 years but were receiving pensions six times the number of an average pension in Poland. How about enough is enough. Instead of marching in KOD's demonstrations they would have to actually look for work.

How stupid do they think voters are?

Jugging by your example - very.

these people were serving their country

in that case they should their go to their country and ask for pension there - Soviet Union. Nobody is stopping them.

A typical piece of PiS vindictiveness. Jaroslaw Kaczynski has "mściwy written through him like Blackpool Rock.

I don't know why you are bringing PiS or JK into it. A fact that their proposed that legislation by it is not first time and I don't think it is even their idea.

Poles are supporting it.
Harry 79 | 13,413    
15 Jun 2016  #29

This is about people who are in their 80', 70', 60' and some are even 56 or less. All of them enjoyed not only privileged position

And all of them are innocent, convicted of nothing.

why you are bringing PiS or JK into it.

Chairman Kaczynski volunteered to prosecute dissidents during commie times. If these pensioners should be punished, the Chairman should too.

Interesting that Po still refuses to to tell us how many of the things promised for the first hundred days have been brought in as promised by the 18% regime.
jon357 70 | 12,786    
15 Jun 2016  #30

This is about people who are in their 80',

Indeed, and you want to impoverish them. Shame on you. It's always the wives who suffer...

in that case they should their go to their country and ask for pension there - Soviet Union.

Their country is Poland - the land they were serving.

And all of them are innocent, convicted of nothing.

Exactly! However despite their joke of a name, neither law nor justice matter one little bit to PiS - they prefer Kaczynski's Kangaroo Courts and Ziobro with his briefcase of material.



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