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Poland please don't give up your hard won democracy to the EU. Or give up the zloty!


Salopian 1 | -
27 Nov 2011  #1
As an Englishman who's lover of Poland and everything Polish. I get really upset by Poland's attitude to Europe. The Polish have only had real freedom and democracy for 20 years, and now they seem desperate to give it away again to Brussels. There's no reason why Poland can't be one of of the strongest countries in Europe, but not if they give away their hard won democarcy. The EU is a fundamentally undemocratic institution and treated as a bit of a joke here in England. We in England have had the parliamentary system since the 13th century, perhaps the freedoms and liberties given to us by democracy are more ingrained here in England than most of the rest of Europe. Poland needs more confidence in its own institutions, the EU aint all that great!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
27 Nov 2011  #2
and now they seem desperate to give it away again to Brussels.

It's not "Polish", It's Tusk and his clowns, average Joe doesn't protest as is being brainwashed by the media how super dooper good membership in EU is for Poland, how much we pay into it, "foreign investors" stealing our money, lose on no tariffs or huge amount of money we will have to spend on reducing CO2 emission is not mentioned, these few who don't buy it anyway are being called anti-semitic/homophobic/anti-European nationalists... Generally a lot was invested in take over of Poland and the "elites" (politicians/media) sold their people a bit the way Negro tribe rulers used to sell their own to slave traders.

Good the whole damn thing is shaking, so no EUR in Poland in the next several years, they will also probably reduce the hand outs, so I believe people here will not buy into it so much anymore.
legend 3 | 664
27 Nov 2011  #3
I dont like the EU myself. And Poland should NEVER give up the zloty.
Polands economy would still rise (albiet slower than with EU).

I prefer Poland to join Slavic Union.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
27 Nov 2011  #4
Poland should have never joind EU but now it's really hard to say what should be done... They already raped our banking, retail and several other sectors, stole +2 million productive people... It can't be turned back easily even If we leave EU.

albiet slower than with EU

Why ? Take a look at Turkey. You think they would be doing better now If they joined EU say 10 years ago ?
legend 3 | 664
27 Nov 2011  #5
Poland should have never joind EU but now it's really hard to say what should be done..

Polands population has fallen ~2 million in a short while. My question is did this all happen because of Eu, open borders and all that socialist nonsense? Or were other factors involved.

1 million Poles go to Britain and then Poland brings in Asians, ******.
I wish those in Britain would return home.

Why ? Take a look at Turkey. You think they would be doing better now If they joined EU say 10 years ago ?

It was just a guess. Im not sure about Turkey.
Wedle 16 | 496
27 Nov 2011  #6
We in England have had the parliamentary system since the 13th century, perhaps the freedoms and liberties given to us by democracy are more ingrained here in England than most of the rest of Europe.

Really and I thought the good old USA was the oldest democracy in the world followed by Poland number two.

As an Englishman who's lover of Poland and everything Polish. I get really upset by Poland's attitude to Europe.

Poland has already sold herself to the Germans, I mean EU. The UK will have to become a fully fledged member within 10 years, so please stop your nonsense.

Generally a lot was invested in take over of Poland and the "elites" (politicians/media) sold their people a bit the way Negro tribe rulers used to sell their own to slave traders.

Please get a history lesson, Poland was bankrupt and needed the west to bail her out, you jumped at joining NATO for security reasons, you have had 100' billions of Euro from the EU and FDI has made you what you are today. If you had been left to your own devices you would have gone the same way as the other former soviet sats, Poland is lucky that she borders Germany this time round otherwise there would be no interest in her.
strzyga 2 | 993
27 Nov 2011  #7
Really and I thought the good old USA was the oldest democracy in the world followed by Poland number two.

That was just constitution. We'd had democratically elected kings long before that.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
27 Nov 2011  #8
you have had 100' billions of Euro from the EU and FDI has made you what you are today.

FDIs are not a feckin charity, they invest money in Poland to suck back more than that, made on work of Polish people. In many cases they make more bad than good i.e. banking, retail or energy. Why do you think Chinese don't allowe "foreign investors" into these sectors ?

As for "EU funds" Poland will have to spent more to deal with EU's CO2 nonsense alone than It gets out of it. So much for "good west". Why the hell do you think Poland and all the other "Eastern european" countries were invited to join EU ? Why EU was spending money on "vote yes" campaings in these countries ? They were so desperate to make these people happy, right ?
Wedle 16 | 496
27 Nov 2011  #9
FDIs are not a feckin charity, they invest money in Poland to suck back more than that, made on work of Polish people. In many cases they make more bad than good i.e. banking, retail or energy

The problem with you Poles is you expect everything for nothing, let me just explain to you in simple terms, 1989 PL was broke without a pot to **** in, you owed the west large debts, Investors coming to Poland starting ventures and creating jobs was a godsend to Poland. Now 2011 you want to sit there in your ivory towers and spout we don't need the foreign investors. Poland's success was founded on foreign capital and pushed forward by foreign expertise

Why do you think Chinese don't allowe "foreign investors" into these sectors ?

China is a closed economy it is still run by the party, it is not a democracy.

As for "EU funds" Poland will have to spent more to deal with EU's CO2 nonsense alone than It gets out of it. So much for "good west".

As far as the Kyoto agreement you have one of the best deals in Europe, CO2 emissions is about global warming. Poland and the other E/C countries were invited to join the EU/Nato for security reasons.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
27 Nov 2011  #10
Investors coming to Poland starting ventures and creating jobs was a godsend to Poland

Do I say they were not needed or wanted ? You've got no clue what I am talking about, typical EU fanatic going crazy once faith in his "God" is questioned.
milky 13 | 1,657
27 Nov 2011  #11
Poland lost its freedom as soon as it got it,through shock therapy forced on them by the neo-liberals;and they now, as then... know not what they do, with clowns blessing statues and naming roundabouts after their new enslavers.
Wedle 16 | 496
27 Nov 2011  #12
Do I say they were not needed or wanted ? You've got no clue what I am talking about, typical EU fanatic going crazy once faith in his "God" is questioned.

So tell us in plain English so we don't have to read between the lines.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
27 Nov 2011  #13
I will make it as simple as it is possible... hopefully you will finally get it.

Foreign entity investing in export oriented, technologically advanced business forming joint-venture with local entity -> GOOD

Foreign entity investing in domestic-market oriented and solely foreign owned business without any significiant transfer of technology/know-how (All the Tescos, Lidls, Unicredits, developers etc. fall under this category) -> NOT GOOD
legend 3 | 664
27 Nov 2011  #14
Please get a history lesson, Poland was bankrupt and needed the west to bail her out, you jumped at joining NATO for security reasons.

Pure bull****. You cant be serious. Before Poland joined EU it was still going up economy wise.
Wedle 16 | 496
27 Nov 2011  #15
You need a history lesson too, I am talking about Poland 1989...

Foreign entity investing in domestic-market oriented and solely foreign owned business without any significiant transfer of technology/know-how (All the Tescos, Lidls, Unicredits, developers etc. fall under this category) -> NOT GOOD

Additionally, foreign investment in post-communist Poland played a major role in reinvigorating the economy. Six-thousand foreign firms were established in Poland after 1990, stimulating the economy and contributing to growing employment by increasing production and consumption (Jackson 2005, 30). The nation's success in attracting foreign investment and trade rested on several factors. Firstly, Poland enjoyed a close proximity to European markets that guaranteed steady demand for Polish products and increased the supply of foreign direct investment in the country. Of all post-communist Eastern European nations, Poland was the closest to Western Europe and consequently enjoyed the highest foreign capital inflows (Sachs 2005, 125). Additionally despite decades of communist mismanagement, Poland possessed a skilled workforce and developed infrastructure. Unlike many developing nations, the Polish population was educated, literate and experienced in industrial work. Poland also possessed functional, if run-down, roads, factories, and power infrastructure. All of these factors allowed Poland to attract the foreign trade and investment that allowed it to enter the global economic system and bring prosperity.
legend 3 | 664
27 Nov 2011  #16
You need a history lesson too, I am talking about Poland 1989...

Poland joined EU 2004 (correct me if im wrong).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland

As you can see Polands GDP was raising before joining the EU.
Only in 1991 it went negative.
From 1992-2003 it was always Positive between (1.2% and 7.1%).

I am notdenying that the EU (especially Germany) helped Poland.
But Poland was in a whole different situation then other pre 1989 countries. This has partly to do with the fact that we were closer to Germany and trading with France and Russia anyway (has nothing to do with EU).

We always had an advantage compared to Ukraine and Belurus.

I find it hard to believe you actually believe without EU Poland would be nowhere.
pawian 155 | 8,471
27 Nov 2011  #17
The EU is a fundamentally undemocratic institution and treated as a bit of a joke here in England!

Yes! The totalitarian West is trying to suppress freedom-oriented Poles!

Again!

I knew it!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
27 Nov 2011  #18
Additionally, foreign investment in post-communist Poland played a major role in reinvigorating the economy.

Yes, they did... And ?
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
28 Nov 2011  #19
It can't be turned back easily even If we leave EU.

You better start thinking of ways to pay the EU back then!

"foreign investors" stealing our money

? You mean companies relocating and creating jobs?
sascha 1 | 826
28 Nov 2011  #20
You better start thinking of ways to pay the EU back then!

why? what for? that is probably fund money connected to a strict use/project. no need for payback even if the euro/eu stop to exist.

Foreign entity investing in domestic-market oriented and solely foreign owned business without any significiant transfer of technology/know-how (All the Tescos, Lidls, Unicredits, developers etc. fall under this category) -> NOT GOOD

thats what its mostly gonna be...unfortunately
Ironside 47 | 9,538
28 Nov 2011  #21
You better start thinking of ways to pay the EU back then!

yep get ready for pay back !

You mean companies relocating and creating jobs?

No, he means companies buying out their competition in Poland and then locking them out!
wielki pan 2 | 250
28 Nov 2011  #22
You better start thinking of ways to pay the EU back then

Rubbish... most EU grants were free for specific reasons with no strings attached..
Crow 136 | 7,369
28 Nov 2011  #23
i pray for Poland
Wedle 16 | 496
28 Nov 2011  #24
I find it hard to believe you actually believe without EU Poland would be nowhere.

I fid it hard to believe you don't focus on the facts and understand the driving force behind Poland, you are a country of 36, million people, Poland is not a world leader, PL was in the midst of a rebuilding boom sponsored by EU funds, when when the financial crisis hit. You really think domestic consumption has saved Poland, please.


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