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Which French candidate for president will be best for Poland?



Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
22 Apr 2017  #1

Polish political circles are understandably following French presidential news and wondering which candidate for president would be most beneficial to Poland. From a TVN24 political discussion it emerged that none are. All of them are to some extent anti-American, anti-German and anti-NATO but all are pro-Russian. LePen is additionally anti-EU.


TheOther 5 | 3,091    
22 Apr 2017  #2

The best one for Poland is a president that keeps France in the EU. If the European Union fails, everyone is in big doo doo.
dolnoslask 1 | 1,142    
22 Apr 2017  #3

The best one for Poland

If the EU were to colapse that would mean Poland would be out of the EU with no penalties, but the timing would be better once EU funding to Poland dries up.

But I still think the EU is a good concept shame they can't sort it out.
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
22 Apr 2017  #4

the EU is a good concept shame they can't sort it out.

I agree. My hope is that the French election will be a close call and Le Pen gets defeated in the second run. That should (hopefully) wake the damn bureaucrats in Brussels up. The migrant crisis needs to be solved; and quick. Greece and Italy can't handle it, and Germany won't be able to shoulder it alone either. There needs to be a common strategy. Maybe the French election accelerates that a bit.
mafketis 16 | 4,668    
22 Apr 2017  #5

That should (hopefully) wake the damn bureaucrats in Brussels up

I wish it were that easy. If Macron wins by 7 votes in the second round they will take as an absolute victory and as a mandate for further integration. If Le Pen wins in either round they might make the French hold another election (I'm completely serious).

An explanation I read years ago that makes sense is that many politicians in EU institutions think of integration as being like a shark, if it's not constantly moving forward it will die. They are completely unable to imagine any other scenario..

The migrant crisis needs to be solved

EU politicians want the migrant crisis, every single thing they do encourages more low-skilled low educated people to risk their lives in a risky trip across the Mediterranean. If they didn't want that they would stop it (or try to stop it). don't ask me why but they do.

There needs to be a common strategy

the only common strategy that will work is repatration and/or force in turning people back (and that's presuming that Merkel et al want to stop it which....they don't they want to increase it)

Maybe the French election accelerates that a bit

It will accelerate something. A Le Pen victory might be shock therapy and wake some people up, a Macron victory will accelerate the self-destruction of the EU as he seems to be on board with all the processes tearing the EU apart.
OP Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
22 Apr 2017  #6

self-destruction

Marx said capitalits will sell the communists the rope on which to hang them (the capitalits) from. In this particulary case, fat, flabby, hedonistic Western Europe is promoting a phenomenon that will destroy Western civilisation, and probably sooner than anyone expects. Every day that radical measures such as mass deportation are not taken to stop the migrant invasion only encourages other third-worlders to go for broke. What do they have to lose? 90% of emirgants make it across hte Mediterranean. In the refugee camps they figure eventually they'll find a way to continue their trek and eventually male it to benefit-rich paradise -- Germany, Sweden, maybe even the British Isles.
TicTacToe    
22 Apr 2017  #7

If you believe for one moment that a federalist like Mr Guy Verhofstadt will wake up should Marine Le Pen come a close second you're mistaken. The guy is a lunatic and Poland will be next Greece. He hates any country or nation that wants to think and act for itself.

Vive la France !
Viva le Front National !!
delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
22 Apr 2017  #8

An explanation I read years ago that makes sense is that many politicians in EU institutions think of integration as being like a shark, if it's not constantly moving forward it will die.

I think there is a degree of sense in this, but the problem is that everything is based around special interests and compromises. It will get better with the UK gone, but for instance - we're at a point now where we need to seriously discuss the future of the Euro. A single currency without oversight of members is a terrible idea, and it's clear you can't trust countries like Greece and Italy to operate sensibly.

I'm absolutely pro-EU, but I'm not convinced that it is and was the right solution for most members. Integrating Germany, France, Benelux, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Austria and Ireland - yes. Perhaps Estonia and Malta too. The rest? No.
mafketis 16 | 4,668    
22 Apr 2017  #9

you can't trust countries like Greece and Italy to operate sensibly.

And you can't count on Germany to put European interests above their own... There's a seed of destruction in the German polity that never goes away just morphs into new forms and slogans...

The Euro might be okay for a few countries but putting _any_ southern European country (except again tiny Malta) in it was pure hubris and excrable planning.

The Euro as a non-negotiable requirement will probably be the end of the EU (I too am in favor of many/most of the basic ideas but not the nasty thing it's become).
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
22 Apr 2017  #10

If Le Pen wins, it will merely embolden the deplorable likes of Hoecke and his cohorts in Germany, Orban in Hungary, and the rest of the half-baked ideologues throughout Europe!

As usual, the latter only think of the cause, but not of the effects of their proclamations.
OP Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
22 Apr 2017  #11

the end of the EU

On one of the political talking heads shows today someone said if the EU ever tried to actually enforce hte €250,000 fine for each unadmitted migrant -- that would cause the bloc's break-up.
delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
22 Apr 2017  #12

The Euro might be okay for a few countries but putting _any_ southern European country (except again tiny Malta) in it was pure hubris and excrable planning.

Oh, absolutely. It should have been launched as a Benelux-only project in the beginning, then expanded to include France and Germany once the initial problems were discovered and solved. I understand *why* they did it this way, but Euro membership should have been conditional upon budgets being approved by the ECB as well as ending the role of national central banks.

I wouldn't cry if the Euro contracted dramatically and left only 5-6 members in it.

And you can't count on Germany to put European interests above their own

Yes, there's a bloody good reason why Thatcher and Mitterrand were deeply unhappy with the fall of East Germany. It all goes back to the problems with the EU - Germany should never have been able to say "come on in" to migrants, as the other countries should have been able to slam the door on the external border. But then again, this is exactly the problem caused by countries like Croatia depending so heavily on German cash to build their own country.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
22 Apr 2017  #13

Apparently, Petry's out of the running, at least for the foreseeable future, citing political infighting as the major reason for her resignation:-)
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
22 Apr 2017  #14

Germany should never have been able to say "come on in" to migrants

The only reason why Merkel opened her stupid mouth was to help out Greece and Italy, which were drowning in refugees/migrants at that time. It has nothing to do with "cheap labor" or "Germany needs people who will support the aging population". It was pure politics, and it backfired "bigly" because most European countries couldn't be bothered to help another member - be it Greece, Italy, Spain or Germany. The EU has always been a club of selfish nation states. Solidarity only works as long as the Germans pay, so don't blame them if they call the shots.

there's a bloody good reason why Thatcher and Mitterrand were deeply unhappy with the fall of East Germany.

But, but, but ... we won the war ... (witch Thatcher).
And Mitterand insisted on the introduction of the Euro for his approval of the German reunification.
Lyzko 15 | 3,604    
22 Apr 2017  #15

Maybe were there a spirit of cooperation within Europe, people from wealthier countries like Germany, might be willing to help less fortunate neighbors such as Greece:-)
Ironside 43 | 8,206    
22 Apr 2017  #16

The EU has always been a club of selfish nation states. Solidarity only works as long as the Germans pay, so don't blame them if they call the shots.

Pay what they pay? The way the Germans F... up Greece making them take on more debts and austerity measures so they could collect money around The EU countries just so the Greece gov. could pay their debt plus interest to the German banks?
Don't be absurd. What solidarity? There is no solidarity in the EU. Those countries should just send those people back to whence then came from rather than listen to some PC or other BS.
delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
22 Apr 2017  #17

Solidarity only works as long as the Germans pay, so don't blame them if they call the shots.

That's exactly it. Even the ECSC was essentially based around letting France use German resources, nothing more.
TheOther 5 | 3,091    
22 Apr 2017  #18

F... up Greece making them take on more debts

Bah. The Greeks defaulted several times already on their debt. If you can't pay back a loan, then don't take one out. Maybe they should get off their lazy asses for a change and stop relying on other people's money.

What solidarity? There is no solidarity in the EU

That's exactly what I said, Iron. The Germans pay and everybody else pretends to be a good European...
mafketis 16 | 4,668    
22 Apr 2017  #19

Petry's out of the running, at least for the foreseeable future, citing political infighting as the major reason for her resignation:-)

This is not good news. A dearth of moderate nationalists is just going to strengthen the extremes.
Joker - | 446    
23 Apr 2017  #20

European Union fails,

You know its going to eventually happen.

If the EU were to colapse that would mean Poland would be out of the EU with no penalties

The EU is a joke. Do yourself a favor and get out before they suck even more money out of you.

Another daily terrorist attack in Europe (except Poland) is so commonplace they don't even seem to notice it anymore.

VIVA LA FRANCE, BREXIT, TRUMP:):)
delphiandomine 80 | 15,938    
23 Apr 2017  #21

Another daily terrorist attack in Europe (except Poland) is so commonplace they don't even seem to notice it anymore.

Such an American viewpoint.

Those of us living in the UK remember when terrorism was a constant threat, carried out by Irish Christians.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,335    
23 Apr 2017  #22

ha ha yes and funded by Americans (Noraid)
Wincig 2 | 147    
23 Apr 2017  #23

All of them are to some extent anti-American, anti-German and anti-NATO but all are pro-Russian. LePen is additionally anti-EU.

As usual from Polonius, and bit of truth and a sweeping generalisation: out of the 4 most likely contenders for the second round (Fillon, Le Pen, Macron, Mélenchon), only Mélenchon and Le Pen are anti American and anti German. Fillon and Macron are pro NATO and neither are pro Russian (the former having changed his stance from the first days of the campaign)
OP Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
23 Apr 2017  #24

sweeping generalisation

Thanks for the update. I don't normally follow French politics but I heard this on a Polish television talk show.
Wincig 2 | 147    
23 Apr 2017  #25

Pleasure. The issue is that nowadays so much of news reporting is biased and presents distorted pictures of the reality. Having just moved to Paris following a 3,5 years stint in Istanbul, I was deeply shocked at the coverage Western media (or let's say in UK and France, which are the two I follow most) gave of the situation in Turkey during my stay. I am myself no big fan, to say the least of RTE, but each country has pluses and minuses, Turkey like others. But when the focus is put relentlessly on the negative side without any respect for balance, it creates completely misleading pictures in the general public's minds..
Towarzysz - | 58    
23 Apr 2017  #26

@dolnoslask

The EU collapsing would mean the next 2-3 years of projects, Business grants, infrastructure money etc. etc. would not materialise for Poland.

From a purely financial point of view short term it would spell ruin for the Polish indigenous economy.
Towarzysz - | 58    
23 Apr 2017  #27

@Polonius3

The 'British isles' as you wrongly call them contain, how many 'benefits, well let's see:

-A Britain currently dominated by a govt. and media more rightwing and more nationalist than the Polish govt. Many disabled people and unemployed young people have been more or less told to go and kill themselves, and a lot of them have done that, such has been their inhumane degradation. Food bank Britain. Yeah, what a paradise.

-An Ireland that is less cruel and definitely less xenophobic but if a refugee ends up there they will be thrown in a camp for years on end and forgotten about, profiteered on by private interests, given 19 euros a week and small rations, until some scandal emerges and they are freed from this social prison. While Britain tends to deal with social problems through hate, fear and division, Ireland tends to institutionalise them(lock people up and throw away the key).

Now I know many people share the view you have of Ireland and Britain, but if you knew even half of the above, would you call such places a 'benefit paradise'?
Towarzysz - | 58    
23 Apr 2017  #28

@TicTacToe

You have a point in respect of Jurgen Klopp's evil twin. He has a vendetta against the Brits as they passed him over for a top job when in the chair once I think.

Some people say the Belgians are the most fanatically pro EU because their joke of a country almost falls apart every time there's an election.
TicTacToe    
23 Apr 2017  #29

If you put black hair dye on his head and a little black mustache on him he looks related to another dictator from the past.

Lol....Funny post about Belgium !!
kondzior 7 | 896    
23 Apr 2017  #30

Personally, at this point, although my knowledge of Frenchie politics is admittedly limited, I think I'd just be satisfied with a Fillon vs Le Pen 2nd round, and then after that it's a coin toss. None of the 4 candidates look any good to me, but two of them (Macron and Melenchon) have "extra bad" written all over their faces. Which leaves Fillon, who is a eurocrat, and Le Pen, who is sleazy, so whoever of those would win that particular hypothetical 2nd round, I really don't care, but the outcome is still better than with the other two.




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