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Freezing weather in Poland, 42 people dead in winter freeze... and no-one cares?


Arien 3 | 716
22 Dec 2009 #61
Oh, I hear you, and I've acknowledged that twice now. However, I will keep stressing that the chronically homeless, as you would call them, really are the minority amongst all the people who are basically condemned to sleeping outside. Why is this so hard for you to simply acknowledge? I don't mean to upset anyone, or to worry anyone, but it could happen to you and me aswell.

;)

I know I would like the idea of help and care, should something like that ever happen to me. Wouldn't you?

:)
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #62
However, I will keep stressing that the chronically homeless, as you would call them, really are the minority amongst all the people who are basically condemned to sleeping outside.

Because, that's not been my experience. My experience has been, people who really don't want to be homeless find a way into housing of some kind, while people who are sorta antisocial or don't want help are the ones who end up on the street and stay there. You want people to feel guilty like it's everyone's fault, but the truth is, the chronically homeless have to be the ones who say they are tired of living that way, they will make the changes necessary to find housing, even if it means changing their lifestyle.
Arien 3 | 716
22 Dec 2009 #63
Because, that's not been my experience.

I will simply point out that you're sounding like someone who will use the extreme examples as an excuse not to help the less extreme examples.

My experience has been, people who really don't want to be homeless find a way into housing of some kind, while people who are sorta antisocial or don't want help are the ones who end up on the street and stay there.

Ofcourse, all of these people like freezing to death. All of them choose to lose their jobs. They choose to experience a trauma. They choose to be anti-social when they've lost their whole family in a car-crash. Ofcourse it's all their fault, because everyone should be able to deal with everything like you would.

You want people to feel guilty like it's everyone's fault,

No, I just want people to know that not everyone chooses to be homeless, and that not every homeless person is a junkie, a psycho, anti-social, or an alcoholic. I know I can't save the whole world, and I know you can't save the whole world. I'm not telling anyone it's their fault.

but the truth is, the chronically homeless have to be the ones who say they are tired of living that way, they will make the changes necessary to find housing, even if it means changing their lifestyle.

They won't let you open a bank account when you have no address. They won't take you for a job when you have no address. Etcetera. It can be a vicious circle sometimes, no matter how smart, how motivated, or how much of a strong-willed person you are. I'm not blaming you or anyone else personally for the situation of these people.

:)
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #64
They won't take you for a job when you have no address.

In NYC, the post office will give homeless people a PO box address to get their mail. In that city, no homeless person has to go without an address. You can put the address of a relative, or the address of a shelter. There are ways around that. You got to be resourceful. If you sit there and shrug your shoulders and say, "I am going to be forever homeless because I don't have an address" you aren't going to get anywhere.

It's also a fact that many homeless have substance abuse problems, mental illnesses and rap sheets. These are the real barriers, not lack of programs.

What about people who will spend all extra money they find on drugs and alcohol so they won't have enough to pay rents. These people think, if I have a place to stay, I won't have enough for whatever I am addicted to so, they prefer to be on the streets. It's a trade off to them.
mira - | 115
22 Dec 2009 #65
stop fearing, they are cowards

And you stop BS. Thank you for enlightening me why homeless people are homeless and who or what I don't want to fight with. Now I finally know what my greatest fears are.
nomaderol 5 | 726
22 Dec 2009 #66
It's also a fact that many homeless have substance abuse problems, mental illnesses

those who have such problems are either homelesses or in palaces, in luxury villas, etc.
it is easy to say these words like mental illnesses, abusers, etc to homeless people, isnt it?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #67
those who have such problems are either homelesses or in palaces, in luxury villas, etc.

Well, most people without money are going to have to do what's necessary to get money. If you are wealthy, you aren't going to be homeless because you already have money. If you are not wealthy, your substance abuse or mental illness can interfer with the amount of money you have access to. If you have a substance addiction, what little money you find will be spent on that and not on rents, food, utilities, all the boring crap we have to spend money on to not be homeless.
nomaderol 5 | 726
22 Dec 2009 #68
If you are not wealthy, your substance abuse or mental illness can interfer with the amount of money you have access to.

If you are wealthy, you have to finance the police forces that will protect you following the rules you put and also you will have to finance military forces that will kill millions of kids by bombs from the air without thinking a second. is this a mental illness or not?

maybe, neither homeless people nor wealthy people are mentally sicks, but, those like you who seperate some are mentally sicks and some others are not are mentally sicks.

or, all people including you are mentally sicks. no?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #69
Yes, but all that has nothing to do with what it's like for the chronically homeless. It doesn't matter. The only thing they can do is clean up their act and spend money on rents and food. They don't have the luxury of spending their money on expensive booze and drugs or they will always be on the street without a roof over their heads.
nomaderol 5 | 726
22 Dec 2009 #70
Ok, some mental sicks living in very good conditions and some mental sicks living in very bad conditions. Why so? Those who living in very good conditions are usually very harmful people and those homeless people living in very bad conditions are usually very harmless people. If we define good as harmless and bad as harmful, a third party reading this debate can think that you are trying to make harmless people harmful while i trying to make harmful people harmless by removing their teeth.

ps: however, what i doing is to let the third party viewing these too learn that all these require a total solution and it can be only and only Socialist World in that all people will accept all are mentally sicks and will live in equal conditions more or less with free basical needs.
Arien 3 | 716
22 Dec 2009 #71
In NYC, the post office will give homeless people a PO box address to get their mail.

*sigh*

You'll need a social number, an I.D. card and a telephone number aswell. These days, you might even need an e-mail address in some cases! To keep it short, you'll need some advice, you'll need some information, you'll need some guidance, and you'll need some help to actually get these things done.

Oh, and ofcourse you're not going to be the only homeless person out there, so unless you're the Queen of Spain your case won't have any priority, which ofcourse means that you'll have to wait..

;)

Outside.
f stop 24 | 2,499
22 Dec 2009 #72
Wrong G, nobody choses to sleep on the streets or to become an alcoholic."

That is not true. I don't know where do you meet your homeless (Christmas stories?), but most the ones I meet have such a disdain for us poor fools going to work every morning and doing somebody else's bidding, they are simply not willing to conform and pay the price.

There might be some that may find themselves homeless through no fault of their own, but those are only temporary. And those can usually find some friendly couches until they can get one of their own. Plus they usually have families that have not given up on them.

So, again, speaking from my own experience, homeless are usually those who are unwilling or unable to play by the rules and expect the rules to change for them. Or, they are waiting for that big win in lottery.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #73
These days, you might even need an e-mail address in some cases!

Email address is the easiest to get. Go to the library,get on the internet, go to gmail and anyone can aquire one for free.

You'll need a social number, an I.D. card and a telephone number aswell.

All those can be aquired. Maybe not the phone number. but the social security number and the ID can. You might have to figure something out for the phone number. Maybe ask around and someone can do you a favor and take the call?
szarlotka 8 | 2,205
22 Dec 2009 #74
Someone cares

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/6858650/Carla-Bruni-gives-tramp-100-euros.html
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #75
Maybe we should all move to the street where Carla Bruni lives? Sounds like easy money.
f stop 24 | 2,499
22 Dec 2009 #76
Last month I had to evict a tenant who stopped paying his rent.
He lost his job, but got just enough to live on from unemployment, and simply could not live within his means, or adjust to his new financial reality. Now he's still going through friends and aquaintances, but once he outlasts his welcome, he will be homeless. Great many people are unable to manage their money, still going out to eat, buying junk for Christmas, thinking something will come their way (Lottery? Obama?) and rescue them.

If I could find a person, or a family that is truly down on their luck and just need a little help, I would gladly help them out. Last year I took a girl in with two kids and at the end of six months I gave her back all the money she paid me so she can get her own place and car. She's had some setbacks since, but mostly she is managing. Those are very rare and if you find them, by all means, help them. The litmus test is - would you let them move into your home?
Arien 3 | 716
22 Dec 2009 #77
If I could find a person, or a family that is truly down on their luck and just need a little help, I would gladly help them out.

That's what I mean.

:)
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #78
The litmus test is - would you let them move into your home?

I wouldn't. But, if they asked me for a ride to the local DHS office or shelter, and I thought they weren't complete low lifes who would take my car, I would gladly help them in that way. If they came to my door and asked for a warm coat or blanket, and, if I had extra ones, I would let them have those. If they were hungry I would give them a cup of soup or warm noodles. There's plenty of things you can do besides giving them money and your house.
sadieann 2 | 205
22 Dec 2009 #79
Plus they usually have families that have not given up on them

The neighbors last week gave up on their brother. He use to work for my company, he lived next door to the family. A spiralling of a sequence of events left him homeless. He went to his family with the clothes on his back (lost everything that was in storage). His brother wouldn't even give him a pair of sox. Her parents were coming and they said he couldn't stay there.

I gave him a car and clothes. With a car he was able to drive to his friends house.

The family was so cruel. It broke my heart. They treated their dog better than him?
Arien 3 | 716
22 Dec 2009 #80
I gave him a car and clothes. With a car he was able to drive to his friends house.

I guess angels still exist.

:)
f stop 24 | 2,499
22 Dec 2009 #81
That was my point: if you would not let them into your house, then you're admitting that they might be other issues. I'm the fool that constantly opens her house to people, and I found out that if someone is homeless, there is usually a reason for it, underneath the obvious one. Find what it is before you put yourself out there. Or you might be handing a crackhead $20, or giving a guy a ride to the neighborhood with better loot.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #82
I'm the fool that constantly opens her house to people, and I found out that if someone is homeless, there is usually a reason for it, underneath the obvious one.

Yes, you should be very careful. However, you can still help them :)
You can give them things like soup and clothing. If you know them and trust them, you can give them a ride now and then.
sadieann 2 | 205
22 Dec 2009 #83
Never give up on anyone. Encourage and treat others compassionately, The person is more inclined to not give up and better themselves. Hopefully, we never find ourselves at a disadvantage and others turn their backs on us.
f stop 24 | 2,499
22 Dec 2009 #84
If I had to panhandle, I would write a sign: "WE NEED BLANKETS". I bet I'd get a lot of them! Not only I could supply the needy, I bet I'd have enough leftovers to start a little side business!
Wroclaw Boy
22 Dec 2009 #85
42 people die in an accident and it would be a day of mourning.. these people will barely get a centimetres of newsprint...

Thousands die on Polish roads every year what are they doing about that?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,146
22 Dec 2009 #86
Wrong G, nobody choses to sleep on the streets or to become an alcoholic.

There are homeless people even in the richest countries, where one can meet both ends doing some easy part time job and even If despite that becomes homeless then there are countless shelters, programms etc. and many still live on the street... because that is their choice. Some people don't want to get up early every morning and work hard to pay their bills, they find It easier to do nothing and sh*t in their pants.

You are welcome to visit my offices in Poznan anytime..

Lol !

I will keep stressing that the chronically homeless, as you would call them, really are the minority amongst all the people who are basically condemned to sleeping outside. Why is this so hard for you to simply acknowledge?

Where are they minority ?
f stop 24 | 2,499
22 Dec 2009 #87
Arien, you have a very unrealistic view of the homeless. That and Christmas movies will make you forget you wearing a rose colored glasses. Go find some homeless people and meet them. Not for a minute do I believe your story about running across a sober, sane, homeless man that "did not smell" and bought coldcuts with your money while you walked away smiling and his life was changed forever... not for a minute.
sadieann 2 | 205
22 Dec 2009 #88
Not for a minute do I believe your story about running across a sober, sane, homeless man that "did not smell" and bought coldcuts with your money while you walked away smiling and his life was changed forever... not for a minute.

Who made you queen for the day?
nomaderol 5 | 726
22 Dec 2009 #89
Some people don't want to get up early every morning and work hard

You do WANT to get up early every morning and WANT to work hard?

Or

You HAVE to get up early and HAVE to work hard..! ?
f stop 24 | 2,499
22 Dec 2009 #90
sadieann
queen??? Was that "queenly"? I just don't believe it, that's all.


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