Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia?

you know people. i contemplated a little on those Russia`s claims about Neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine who gains more and more power. We can note that official Russia speak of it and ordinary people in Russian media. What is important in this story, great deal of public in Slavic countries, if not even in Europe and world, would agree with it.

So, i contemplated, what this means. Does this speak of Russia`s intentions, that about Neo-Nazi power in Ukraine.

In my opinion that means that are we on the edge of the open Russian-German confrontation. In any sense. Russia obviously came to conclusion that in this moment, Germany must be stooped. Mark my words. Any moment we can expect open Russia`s accusation of Germany for new hostile movement onto the Slavic world. Germany would be accused to be leading hawk of those forces that tend to establish control over Central and Eastern Europe and again on the account of Slavs. After those accusations, for Russia, things may turn into the Slavic-Germanic confrontation, what would be kind of holly war. i think, that is the ideological background of future Russia`s actions. Russia preparing its own and general public for this situation to come.

It seams that those who said that Germany made its last mistake with taking part in destruction of Yugoslavia, were not right. No, it was mistake of Germany but, Russia waited. Ukraine would most probably prove to be last German mistake.

IMO it is all propaganda.... Both the "Western" MSM and RT / Russian Controlled Media as well. As with all issues, the truth is never black and white.

I heard a Russian-Israeli commentator on the news last night. Let me know what you think of his analysis. He explains the situation this way:

This is the cuban missile crisis in reverse, with Russia feeling threatened. If Ukraine would ally with Europe and eventually join NATO (an essentially anti-Russian alliance) it makes Russian missile defenses useless, with NATO missiles in their backyard (like the Soviet missiles in Cuba), creating an existential threat for Russia. That's why Russia was trying like hell to keep Ukraine in his orbit, and why Putin couldn't sit back and let Ukraine go west. He also understands that the West was encouraging Ukraine to break the connection with Russia, not because of a love of democracy but to alter the strategic balance against Russia.

To prevent that from happening, Putin doesn't want to take over only the russian speaking part of Ukraine, because the remaining part would ally with NATO and then Russia would be in the same vulnerable fix. Putin wants all of Ukraine. But instead of conquering it outright, he will use the Russian citizens of Ukraine to do the job for him. Taking over Crimea was crisis control, to solve the urgent problem of protecting the naval base, and also to threaten Ukraine and embolden the Russian Ukrainians to push the country back into Russia's domination. But his goal is to dominate all of Ukraine, which he sees as strategically part of Russia.

None of this has to do with fascists or protecting russian speakers. That's just propaganda to gain popular support. The issue is not even political or diplomatic. It's totally strategic, and Putin can't afford to back down.

That's his analysis in short. Tell me if you think this is accurate.

Look at what happens when fascists take control. Just recently it happened in Yugoslavia and no one did anything. Then look what happened.

Partially true Shawn, I do have a problem with political parties that are neo nazi especially when they have gathered some power.

The information above was lifted from mainstream British and Irish media, it is being reported but ignored. The EU's reaction to the elections in Austria and also Hungary when far right parties were elected was very different. These guys are being portrayed as our guys the great democrats bravely struggling for clean politics but they are rotten to the core.

I'm sure gonna hold on to my nukes (not that I'm saying we have them...)

Crow started posting on PF? ;)

Agreed. But IMO, I think that the average Kiev Resident (not the raving neo-nazi types, anarchists, and other fringe types) truly wanted to peacefully protest the actions of the Government Du Jour. After Yanukovich murdered protestors and subsequently fled, it was the squeaky wheels (fringe types) that got the majority of the grease (power). It is sad to see the extremes getting so much power. Unfortunately, I think that the average Kievian is going to get the shaft in this mess.... Typically, the moderates aren't loud enough to sieze the reins of power in a vacuum like this.

Abbey of RT has a point of view.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZolXrjGIBJs

The Cuban thing I think is out dated though has a beautiful symmetry about it. I don't believe anyone wants to see a partition of the country, the coup leaders did make it easy for Putin to do what he did and the Russian speakers do have a point. They elected the president and the losers removed him that would make anyone doubt democracy.

Russia was born there making the place have at least some emotional significance for Russians and I believe that these events are more than just strategy, for the Russians they are existential.

Shawn

Again we are largely in agreement, it's a pity that the agreement between the pres and the opposition to hold early elections was rejected. The average Ukrainian just wants the issue settled by a fair election, the people thrown out at the last election were given a chance but they messed up. This latest guy also messed up, the words and actions of the current crowd don't look good.

She's got guts for saying that. I respect that. But all she's talking about is the ethical side of the situation. That doesn't mean anything to Putin, so it has no bearing on what he'll do.

I would even say that the ethical questions don't mean much to the West either, even if morality happens to be on their side. Each side will play this chess game to win.

Individuals care about right and wrong (even politicians do in private), but countries act to protect their interests.

A huge part of the Ukrainian economy is based on Soviet / Russian standards - much of the production is geared to the needs of the remainder of the old soviet block - to try to break this overnight and link it to the EU's of the US standards will cripple what remains of Ukrainian production. The Oligarchs sitting on these assets know this - the vast majority of them in the Donbass region have little choice but to continue to produce the shoddy goods that Russia needs; That was Yanukiewich's crumbling power base. The remaining Oligarchs wanted a part of the action and so mounted the so called coup - but they misfired and now there is that god awful mess. Nasty pieces of work have taken power in the name of freedom in Kiev; those in Donbass do nt want these weirdos to rule over them - what to do? Use Crimea as bait to bring in their cousins from across the border - after all they are Russians together - the assumed threat to the Russian fleet is a good excuse to bring in cover and so the eastern Oligarchs can still hang n their assess and continue to produce crap, leave the workers in the poverty they are in and still reap benefits. Where does the EU and the US fit into all of this? No where! The EU / US 'oligarchs' (yes !!) also want to get their mitts on the remaining Ukrainian assets and produce cheap steel, machinery and ofcourse the raw materials.

All this talk of war and invasions is all palin bull ****. All it has to do with is the various thieves fighting over the spoils. All common and honest Ukranains should stay indoors, lock the windows and watch DVD;'s until these nastier on both sides work out how they divide the spoils.

Invasion of Poland?? Don't make me laugh! All that trembling about Russian take over is the stuff of fantasies - that was in the '50's, and that is Georgia; The Poles should have been awake 10 years ago and worked Ukrainians as partners - but they did not - so now its too late; just like the EU and its mealy mouthed support. And Hague of UK has already said that his Oligarchs do not allow him to say boo to Russia...

So, what now? Let the Ukranians grow up and sort themselves out - I suspect, unfortunately that this will take ten years

Uk's nuke cost £4billion to develop in todays money. Thats perfectly affordable for Poland.


Probably accurate.

Wow! I thought I was being cynical about morality. You're saying it's not even strategic interests - it's just squabbling oligarchs.
That's something I never thought of. What do I know about eastern europe.

Its the post soviet playground - not Eastern Europe....Visited any of the 'stans recently?? I thought Ukraine was 'different' - but no - Azerbaijan has its clans - Ukraine has its 'familiies'

It is, when you're selectively reporting things (and Russia Today was doing this, blatantly) and give biased interpretations, etc.
I'm not saying that the Western (and Polish media) were and maybe still are always 100% objective, but I was watching Polish news channels, BBC World, CNN, Bloomberg and Russia Today and what I saw on Russia Today was simply... editing reality. You would think no protestors were shot if you watched Russia Today. It's mindblowing, even for Russia Today (I was watching RT in the past and I don't think it was ever that bad).

Barney, at one point one reporter even said that there are "pogroms" going on in Ukraine. Pogroms!


If that's what worries Putin why didn't he say anything about those guys during the press conference? He talked a lot about one of the oligarchs appointed in the East, but nothing about "Neo-Nazis" in the ministries, as far as I can remember.

We had at one point (during the PiS rule) in Poland one guy who was a leader of a far-right wing party considered to be anti-Semitic and was a chairman of the far-right All-Polish Youth organization - he (Roman Giertych) was appointed as the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Education because PiS needed his party to form a governmental coalition. But we survived lol And noone had to invade us (not even Israel lol). The funny thing is that some years later some Jewish organisation hired him as a laywer to fight a ban on ritual slaughter in Poland.

And here you have this former IDF soldier who says those "Neo-Nazis" aren't as bad as they are portrayed:

Of course I don't know what they really are like and Poles were also worried about UPA flags at Maidan but somehow Poland isn't invading Ukraine despite the fact that there are Poles living in Western Ukraine. And you should know that when some Poles hear the word "sotnia" they get chills. Even I had some bad associations when I was watching Cossacks hitting their drums at Maidan.

I understand concerns but that's just a temporary government and there were supposed to be democratic elections to be held in May, as far as I can remember. But now? What will happen now? Putin is creating just more chaos. And I think on purpose.

Nothing bad was happening to Russians. I doubt anything bad would happen.


The problem is that what Putin is doing is making things far worse. He's destabilising the situation in Ukraine to such an extent that it may lead to war. Don't you understand this?

And he's a liar.


Well, my Russian friend thinks he doesn't care about them.


The moderates are in the government too.


Of course he sees Ukraine in such a way. Russia always has seen these lands in such a way and treated them in such a way.

Since Poland is in the EU and NATO (thank God!) now Ukraine is "the buffer country". Poland used to be "the buffer country" between the West and Russia during the communist times, for example. According to plans of that time it could be turned into a nuclear wasteland, they didn't care...

I bet Estonia is very happy nowadays that they're in the EU and NATO. They have a big Russian minority too. And Russians call Estonians facists too. If the EU falls apart, Estonia could be next in line, probably... lol ;/

Listen, guys, we in Central Europe get heart palpitations when we see what's going on... lol We have 1938, 1956, 1968, etc. before our eyes.
You know how an ex-military Russian justified the Soviet invasions to me? It was the facists taking over in Hungary in 1956 so they had to be stopped. In Czechoslovakia in 1968 THERE WAS NO INVASION. It was "a friendly help" from allies since the government of Czechoslovakia asked for intervention :D Like Yanukovych did :D He asked, so it's all legal... Do you understand? It's all OK. It's always legal or at least justified.

What such Russians have to say about Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact? It was necessary from the point of view of Soviet interests and to protect the local people :) (or at least some of them because others were sent to gulags or shot). And there was Poland at that time anyway, the Polish government fled to the West. So it was all legal and OK. Do you know there was actually a guy who said that it was also in his country's interest to kill Polish officers in Katyń... And that he would do something like this if it was "necessary". I was getting chills when I was reading his comments.

Some Poles say that when Russian men get into military something happens to them, that they get brainwashed.
I don't know if that's the case but I've discussed with so many of them...
I'm not sure if you realise what kind of man Putin is. And in what kind of Matrix he may be living...

You guys really live in a dangerous part of the world.

Crow is all ready to jump on it!

You don't have to tell me that... lol ;/
You think why Poland was so absolutely desperate to join NATO and the EU?
That's the main reason why...
You can even see it on TV these days...

what a word. Today`s Russia is definitely more democratic then USA or western European countries. Interesting development


on the bright side, after the nuclear war, humans would maybe evolve to have two penises and two vaginas ;)

Paulina, I never watch RT, Iranian TV or any other obviously questionable news sources. I gathered my information from mainstream Irish, British and frequently Spanish sources, they are all reporting the nature of the coup and the nature of those who fought the police. They have also pointed out that the police did shoot unarmed people. The reporting has been in the main even handed though with a sharp western bias. The BBC broadcast a report a few nights ago about the nature of the opposition

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5SBo0akeDMY

I just have a problem with coups and neo nazis. What happened was a coup there can be no doubt about that, the message sent was that your vote, your opinion, is worthless.

The oligarchs who funded this coup have been rewarded with positions of power no one elected them, the people thrown out of power in the last election were just as guilty of theft as the present president. The looser as ever is the Ukrainian people.

The margin for the accession to the EU was far too small to suggest that the country as a whole was 'desperate'.

The educated middle classes were keen, however many were not, sadly.

Well, the UK had the blueprints from the Americans as far as I know, and Poland doesn't. So it's development from the ground up - much more expensive, and a complete waste of money.

Couple things to take away from this crisis for governments of Central and Eastern Europe. They need to keep spending money on a quality armed forces not slashing and thnking NATO will be there for them.

Poland seams to be the only country in Europe who see's the threat from Russia and matches it with defense spending...

If a shooting war starts in the next few weeks Western Europe is unprepared militarily and from the reaction of EU leaders, mentally with a boldly aggressive Russia.

I wont debate Barny on neo nazi in Ukraine etc - he just has a point of view that many in the east or with Russian sympathies share.

Round 1 goes to Russia. Will see what the government in Ukraine does next.

But one thing for Russia only appreciates strength. It also knows it does not seriously face economic sanctions in the long term.

is it really possible that would Poles, again and again, accept role of the cannon fodders for the sake of Britain, France and USA and how ironically, today, for Germany, too

Aren`t you aware that Russia didn`t move against Poland. This is much bigger. It would be like with Napoleon or Hitler, but on the double. If Russia moves to war this time, there would be erased everything what is obstacle.

Don`t you see that world change? That in Yugoslavia, Libya, Serbia, Syria, etc, etc,.. all that was just prelude to big sh**. World powers compete. That`s it. You think that Russia don`t have agreements with China, India and Brazil, when decided to make this giant step. You know what`s going on? USA and western Europe grabbed too much of power and other would powers decided to stop them. Money flow in the world would be re-arranged.

What Poland`s preparations? you got only genocide and humiliation from Germanics in history and Polish government wants to sacrifice Poland for them??!! if fails to declare neutrality in this situation, government of Poland is nothing but criminal on its own people.

Amazing analysis and view, Paulina! Not only this quote, but all you said in the previous posts as well.

crap. All crap. Every power always have its reason. It is so since the beginning of time. We all know it. What is problem here, that is Poland`s constant role of the billiard ball. Many countries are just billiard balls.

Let us be realistic. Its time for Poland to be truly independent, people. As we know, that would be possible only with new Commonwealth. Take destine in your own hand and stop cry as eternal servant. That`s it.

i fu** all of you who don`t understand this simple truth.

Check out this article. Seems Ukraine doesn't really want to do anything for itself, just get aid from other countries like Russia and funnel the money into certain people's pockets, not helping the average Urkrainian:


zocalopublicsquare.org/2014/03/02/why-obama-shouldnt-fall-for-putins-ukrainian-folly/ideas/nexus/

So if the US starts giving them aid, likely they will do the same with it.

That's quite a good article. What people sometimes forget about the current crisis is that the interim government (and the nationalists) have been told in very plain terms to do nothing, absolutely nothing, that could escalate the situation.

Whatever happens, it does look like a split (and possibly a 2 way population movement) will happen.

Yawn....


Show me, please, what Ukraine got for free.