Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia?

i wont be judge here and speak of it who is right or wrong. i would just say how i understand this message of Polish PM Tusk. Who wants to talk about it, let us talk

Ukraine crisis: 'World stands on brink of conflict,' warns Polish prime minister

The Telegraph

Poland's Prime Minister, Donald Tusk



God help us all.

In all seriousness, though, what would you expect of us in such a situation?
When Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, the West (i.e. the EU, US and NATO) did jack sh!t. If Russia invades Ukraine and the West continues to do nothing then Putin - and everyone else - will know for certain that he can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants. Now, depending on which side you're on (if you're taking sides) that might not be a bad thing, but for those of us in Central Europe, it's a frightening prospect.

Let's face it, Europe has disarmed so rapidly that its militaries aren't really capable of sustained operations, which means any military intervention has to come from America. The closest American military installation of any size is away in Bulgaria. American military installations capable of actually supporting some sort of serious mobilization and intervention are in Germany, miles away. Those distances are too great to be able to conduct any sort of intervention from the air that seeks to be more than symbolic, i.e. a no fly zone or something of that nature. Building up, in Poland perhaps, a credible expeditionary land force, meanwhile, would take months. Likewise there is no American naval presence in the Black Sea. They'd need to get permission from Turkey to cross the Bosporus, and you can be certain the Russian Black Sea fleets would attempt to blockade the straights if the Americans were serious about fighting their way to the Ukrainian side of the Black Sea to lend a hand. Could it be done? Probably. The US can muster more naval power that is in better condition than the Russians can, but what we're talking about at this point is full-scale war. The sort of graduated military escalation USA usually engage in in response to crises like these, i.e. move a carrier battle group off the coast, launch a few cruise missiles, etc. aren't feasible options given the relative geographic remoteness of Ukraine from bases of American military power. That means it's either go all in militarily, or pursue some sort diplomatic and economic sanctions against Russia. The only options available are either too extreme, i.e. full-scale war, or too meek, i.e. threatening to freeze bank accounts.

Stop whining. The head of the Sarmatians, good old Putin, is raising his ugly head. Wasn't that what you were asking for all these years?

And the US in particular has a very long history of "intervening" militarily in the affairs of other countries. Sure excuses are always manufactured like stopping the spread of communism, stopping the spread of WMDs, stopping the spread of terrorism, etc., etc., etc. They even now go to the UN to form a "coalition of the willing" to give a thin veneer of legitimacy to their actions. So be it. But it's still the height of hypocrisy then to decry what Russia is doing and insist that sovereignty and "territorial integrity" must be respected in other countries. The US and its allies could have had moral authority in this current Ukrainian crisis but they don't and won't.

Many citizens in the US feel they have been spread too far and at a terrible price in both blood and treasure with nothing to show for it but more instability in the world. The EU is detested from within for bloated bureaucratic rule and nothing to show for it but low growth and demoralizing long-term high unemployment. And what authority does Britain have calling for unity in Ukraine when their own "United" Kingdom is months away from falling apart?

Poland won't go to war over a break-up of Ukraine. Ukraine is not part of NATO and so the Russian take over of Ukrainian territory technically has nothing to do with NATO even though events are happing on its doorstep. And as long as the Russian speaking population continue to raise the Russian tricolor around Ukraine any NATO intervention would be not only be without merit but illegal. As cited before a civil war is likely to erupt and in any civil conflict there are always going to be refugees. The West will only be able to do what they can humanitarian wise while looking to do what they can to isolate Russia politically and economically. But good luck with that if China decides to support Russia and suddenly calls in the debt it holds over America.

Oligarchs step in to save Ukraine's sovereignty

kyivpost/content/ukraine/oligarchs-step-in-to-save-ukraines-sovereignty-338116.html

Poland need not worry - the oligarch bandits will stop the Russians and Kaczynski foresaw this in 2008 - in his dreams -see this.

A war between the US and Russia is even more frightening.

Kondzior, in all fairness, why would we? I don't want our boys killed for Ukraine or for any other country. I feel sorry for Ukrainians but I hate to see our people die, that's all.

I don't want a longer border with Russia...and I don't want any Russians in Poland. Poland might be next target for Putin.he's insane.

Didn't happen in 1962, won't happen in 2014. Putin might be dangerous, but he's not suicidal.

That's pretty dangerous to assume. So as long as there is no genocide going on, I think the US should stay out of this. It's not of our concern. As a previous poster mentioned, it's not NATO territory.

UK, USA, Russia all made a guarantee to protect Ukraines borders as part of the giving up nukes agreement.

That makes it NATO problem too.

and first of all it's a slap in the face of US and UK. Imagine now Iran or any state with similar problems would rather think twice on signing any deal with the West - providing West guarantees are questionable.

He wont target Poland.
Putin doesnt want all of Ukraine. His main interest is the Crimea where the Russian ethnics and military base is.
Look at Syria, he didnt attack, he just protected Russian interests (they also had a base there).
There are millions of Russians in the Ukriane mostly in the Eastern Part.

Some people are badly stuck in the Cold War mentality.


Good. Why would the West care about the Georgia and risk fighting with Russia?
And these war hawks like Mccain need to calm the hell down.

Ive a news check for you.
Poland and most Poles are blindly so in love with the US, while most Americans dont give 1 **** about Poland.
We are simply a PAWN for countries like UK, France and US.

Not worry? I'm already packing, I'm outta here!!

Here in Israel, this makes me wonder: The US and EU want us to give the Jordan valley to the Palestinians, offering us security guarantees to protect our eastern border with the Arab world. Let's see how the US keeps its word to protect Ukraine before we agree to a crazy plan like that.

Good point, yehudi.

Its Palestinian land

There is nothing in any reassurances or guarantees that support a coup; recognising an illegal government that includes fascist anti semites is no guarantee of Ukrainian neutrality.

Depends, from where the oil will come to "lubricate" this protection.

Indeed ... so why did you mention it? Ukraines internal politics or opinions are a matter for its population to decided.

UK, USA and Russia guaranteed its borders

Because people are jumping up and down screaming that Russia is interfering in Ukraine, nothing has happened threatening its borders.

Assuming he wasn't misquoted, Donald Tusk warns of ramifications:

are you people sure that Tusk isn`t lunatic who simple works for USA, Britain and France?

i started to have positive opinion about him but now, i`m reconsidering my stance about him.

That`s the good one. he, he, you Jews are so humorous people.

Muscovites call for invasion of Ukraine

The Telegraph
Howard Amos in Moscow / 6:55PM GMT 02 Mar 2014

Russians take part in a demonstration to support Putin's decision to send Russian troops in the Crimea

It doesn't look like you'll be able to create your Great Slavic Empire at the moment, Crow.

Maybe we should write more about people in Russia who were protesting against a war and were immediately arrested?

channelnewsasia.com/news/world/russian-anti-war/1017688.html
rferl.org/content/dozens-arrested-at-moscow-antiwar-pr otest/25282578.html
newrepublic.com/article/116816/whataboutism-russia-protests-against-war-ukraine

Poland is not preparing "for" a war with Russia. At most, Poland is now preparing for a defense, "just in case".

actually, i suggested new Commonwealth. Ask old members of the forum. Russia was excluded from it. No, not because i don`t like Russians but, because of practical reasons. On the first place, Russia has enough resources to be self-sustainable economic system that has real perspectives in world that globalize and where mass-economy dominates.

So, i supported Pilsudski`s idea of the Commonwealth and promoted it here, for the years already. But, some `wise` people ridiculed any discussions about it here on this forum.

Now, you know what is alternative to the Pilsudski`s idea? This. This what happening to Ukraine. That what already happened to Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, partition of Serbia. Poland is next. You know why? Because, when one don`t have its own business, one must be part of others peoples business. For you are the anvil or you are the hammer. EU and NATO leading powers hold Poland that strong, that Polish politicians aren`t capable to do anything good for Poland.

and, don`t blame Russia. NATO and EU leading powers grabbing whatever they can. In a situation when people from Baltic to Balkan to the Black see, don`t have Commonwealth as the guarantor of their interests, don`t be surprised that Russia also wants its share on open market.

In fact, don`t blame neither the USA, neither the EU leading powers, too. Why should we blame them? They taking care for themselves, for their interests. Blame all people form Baltic to Balkan and Black see for their incompetence and inability to do something just for themselves.

Blame whoever you want but, don`t blame Serbians. We resisted. We didn`t want blindly to obey to the magnates and bankers of the USA and western Europe and also, we didn`t, no matter in agony, accept to serve Russia. For such a choices my people was crucified, demonized in mass media, isolated and abandoned. But, at least we resisted. Serbia didn`t suffer in silence

you're funny, LOL

We promised to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and independence (as did the UK and Russia) so I'm not sure why you're singling out the US.

I also don't see how the US is obligated to protect Ukraine. We kept our promise. Russia didn't. It's not our responsibility to risk going to war with Russia just because they invaded a pro-Russian area of Ukraine that probably wants to be part of Russia anyway.

The US is not obliged to protect Ukraine in any way. Interfering in Ukrainian internal affairs was hardly keeping your word.

The US no longer relies on foreign sources for it's energy needs. That's an outdated assumtion. They produce 80% domestically and are moving state by state to alternatives....as many countries are. Beside the environmental necessity to move toward cleaner energy sources, any forward thinking country has realized that it's just not smart to rely on a foreign source for the bulk of it's needs. Especially ones with an "agenda"......like Russia.

Raising a Russian flag over Ukrainian territoriality is violating its borders.

Sending Russian troops to occupy Ukrainian land is the UN recognized definition of war and Ukraine is legally entitled to used any military means to eject them.

Well maybe the new commonwealth will be every Slavic country joining NATO it defend itself against the Russian Empire. Which side are you on Crow, can you honestly side with the Russians invading their allies?

There is going to a solid result of all this, probably involving a new arms buildup and nuclear missiles based in Poland aimed right at those lovely Russians