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Poland's fight against paedophilia


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
15 Jun 2015  #241
ask for the source

Common knowledge, dear Watson! You disagree? Rather than being the consummate smart arse provide alternative figures. Somehow you blindly accepted the pope's 2%. BTW how did you like the police dog Fido?
jon357 63 | 14,110
15 Jun 2015  #242
blindly accepted the pope's 2%.

Not as if he's infallible or anything, innit...
Barney 14 | 1,469
15 Jun 2015  #243
Polinus3 and Harry

Would you please stop the coat trailing in this and other threads and discuss like adults
Harry
15 Jun 2015  #244
Somehow you blindly accepted the pope's 2%

Well, he does have access to all the papers the RCC won't release to the general public, for example the real reasons for all those unexplained sudden repostings of priests, so he should know better than anybody.
jon357 63 | 14,110
15 Jun 2015  #245
The timing of this discussion is quite apt. The media have just this evening reported this about Archbishop Józef Wesołowski, from Poland:

The Vatican is to put its former envoy to the Dominican Republic, Jozef Wesolowski, on trial on child sex abuse and child pornography charges.Pope Francis has also accepted the resignations of a US archbishop and his deputy, accused in Minnesota of having ignored a priest's child abuse.
Jozef Wesolowski is accused of sexually abusing children in the Dominican Republic from 2008 to 2013. He is under house arrest in the Vatican.
The trial is to begin on 11 July.Wesolowski, 66, is also charged with possession of child pornography, dating from his return to Rome in 2013.

m.bbc.

I didn't know about the child pornography charges. In the UK the bar is quite low for that. It just has to be an image of someone who the CPS (prosecutor) believes could credibly be under 18, you don't need to have downloaded it or clicked on a thumbnail, nor do you even have had to scroll down that far on the page as the people arrested in Operation Ore found to their cost. In the Vatican, I would suspect that possessing images does mean exactly that. Does anyone know what the criteria is in Poland.

Another thing is that the Vatican seems to be checking his computers even now. It isn't an easy process - the police remove the hard drives and mount them in an oscilloscope - they even go much further in serious cases (stuff with magnets apparently) since they need to keep a database of the all of worst images to investigate how they're shared.
Harry
16 Jun 2015  #246
30,000 in Poland

So, if the Pope's estimate is correct (and he does have access to a range of information that nobody else has access to, and I can't see any reason why he would overstate the number) and that his figure is correct for Poland (I see no reason why it shouldn't be, Poles are no more or less likely to be angels or demons than any other nationality), that makes 600 paedophiles in Poland who have to pass no legal vetting process at all in order to have unsupervised access to children over whom they have a position of power and trust. Is it only me who finds that number to be heart-stoppingly frightening?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
16 Jun 2015  #247
state school teachers

You've seen the post where not teachers, priests or other professionals but brickmasons, locksmiths, car mechanics and farmers head the list of convicted paedophiles in Poland. Why don't you go after them?

I was surprised to learn that myself, suspecting that gym instructors and scoutmasters would head the list. But through it all, you have always monomaniacally singled out priests, even though Pope Francis said ONLY 2% are paedophiles. There's a hell of a lot more farmers in Poland than priests, but that wouldn't fit your obsessive Christophobic agenda.
jon357 63 | 14,110
16 Jun 2015  #248
Is it only me who finds that number to be heart-stoppingly frightening?

Yes. And the bigger issue is that in Poland B they have a lot of authority in the community. That and scandals being swept under the table.

I also cringe when I see adverts for summer language camps for kids with no mention of CRB checks etc.
Harry
16 Jun 2015  #249
I also cringe when I see adverts for summer language camps for kids with no mention of CRB checks etc.

At least with Polish staff a school can, in theory, get a check done with the Polish police, but with foreign staff the Polish police will just say "Never heard of him." I really am amazed that with the tens of thousands (at least!) of native speaker teachers who have passed through Poland over the last two and a half decades that not one has been nicked for noncing. There was that English nonce in Krakow a couple of years back, but he was teaching horse-riding. Sadly I very much doubt that Poland's luck can hold.

Pope Francis said ONLY 2% are paedophiles

You might think that 600 paedophiles in Poland who have to pass no legal vetting process at all in order to have unsupervised access to children over whom they have a position of power and trust is a low number, I beg to differ, I'd say it is far too high, 600 too many to be exact.
jon357 63 | 14,110
16 Jun 2015  #250
but with foreign staff the Polish police will just say "Never heard of him."

They can insist on one from the home country (or anywhere else the person has been a permanent resident) - UK summers schools now do that as do many other countries. Not least due to people moving from place to place to increase their opportunity to offend.

I really am amazed that with the tens of thousands (at least!) of native speaker teachers who have passed through Poland over the last two and a half decades that not one has been nicked for noncing.

I once came across one I was beginning to have some vague concerns about given his reaction to something I once told him about a Roma child prostitute soliciting in a certain bit of central Warsaw (he was never an employee by the way) but that was years ago, a more innocent time, or so it seemed. He did only teach adults in Poland as far as I know, most of the time, a long way from the capital.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
16 Jun 2015  #251
600 paedophiles in Poland

Shedding crocodile tears again? Your great idol and role model Biedroń reportedly said there were 2 million homos (he calls them gays) in Poland. Since about one-third of all homosexuals are paedophiles, that amounts to not a paltry 600 but more like 700,000. Maybe the gay communtiy should be vetted first and foremost. But I can just imagine the hue and cry the LGBT mob would unleash: DISCRIMINATION, INTOLERANCE, HOMOPHOBIA, BULLYING; VIOLATION OF GAY RIGHTS, CIVIL RIGHTS and suchlike cry-babing.
Harry
16 Jun 2015  #252
Since about one-third of all homosexuals are paedophiles

Could one ask for a source for that statistic?

Maybe the gay communtiy should be vetted first and foremost.

No, they should be vetted and checked just like everybody else should be.
The problem now is that for lots of positions no checks at all are required; also, for positions where checks are required, priests get an automatic pass, which is how convicted and self-confessed paedophile rapists end up having unsupervised access to children over whom they have a position of power and trust.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
16 Jun 2015  #253
Could one ask for a source for that statistic?

Up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys. Less than three percent of the population are homosexuals. Thus, a tiny percentage of the population (homosexual men), commit one-third or more of the cases of child sexual molestation.

frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3

Having observed the long-standing MO of the J&H comedy duo, one can only anticipate that they will quesiton or undermine the source. Fine! That's their right. SO NOW IT'S YOUR TURN: CITE WHAT YOU REGARD AS RELIABLE SOURCES FOR THE PERCENTAGE OF HOMOSEXUALS WHO ARE PAEDOPHILES.
jon357 63 | 14,110
16 Jun 2015  #254
Any statistician can see the flaw in that. Not least because homosexuality is not paedophilia and vice versa. Besides, as ever, you're trying to go off topic.

Remind me Pol3, what percentage of Catholic Priests are male?
Harry
16 Jun 2015  #255
Up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys. Less than three percent of the population are homosexuals.

Could one see a source for those statistics? Not that they in any way support your claim that about one-third of all homosexuals are paedophiles.

frc.org

The Family Research Council? Really? You seriously expect anybody to believe even a single claim that come from an organisation the Southern Poverty Law Center classifies as an anti-gay hate group?!
jon357 63 | 14,110
16 Jun 2015  #256
Exactly. In matters of child protection it's about as valid as quoting from the disgusting so-called Leadership Council or the Slater Gordon law firm (behind much of the recent witch hunt in UK and Australia).

Neither of them yet in Poland, though Slater Gordon may be exploring. All to do with compensation payouts. And they have a PR team who are very effective at whipping up media frenzies.
Harry
16 Jun 2015  #257
about one-third of all homosexuals are paedophiles

Here's a real study published in a reliable journal, the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics: pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/94/1/41.abstract

Objective. To determine if recognizably homosexual adults are frequently accused of the sexual molestation of children.
...
Results. ... Using the data from our study, the 95% confidence limits, of the risk children would identify recognizably homosexual adults as the potential abuser, are from 0% to 3.1%. These limits are within current estimates of the prevalence of homosexuality in the general community.

Conclusions. The children in the group studied were unlikely to have been molested by identifiably gay or lesbian people.

Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
16 Jun 2015  #258
You seriously expect anybody

Didn't I predict that's how you would react. If you disagree, question the source! So I don't expect anyone to believe those statistics, but we do look forward to seeing the true, authentic, reliable and unquestionable statistics you provide showing THE PERCENTAGE OF HOMOSEXUALS WHO ARE PAEDOPHILES.

WE ARE ALL WAITING WITH BATED BREATH!
Harry
16 Jun 2015  #259
but we do look forward to seeing the true, authentic, reliable and unquestionable statistics you provide showing THE PERCENTAGE OF HOMOSEXUALS WHO ARE PAEDOPHILES

So look at the post above where I quote from a study published by the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

I'd love to see a similar study done in Poland but for now we'll have to assume that the statistics are the same in Poland as in the USA.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
17 Jun 2015  #260
American Academy of Pediatrics

Did you know that the powerful, heavily bankrolled and influential pro-homo lobby has pulled evidence showing their true colours off the net over the past decade. You'll ask for evidence. It's all done backroom style -- intimidation, blackmail, threats of losing grants or jobs. The only stuff they allow are the sites of Christian fundamentalist or neo-fascist groups which enables them to show that anyone who isn't for gays is a nutter. Try to find data on gay-specific diseases - a decade ago there was plenty thereof online. All totalitarian system -- Nazi, Soviet, LGBT -- has one thing in common: cleverly worded propaganda which when repeated enough times is actually believed.

Nevertheless, one can still occasionally find something that has slipped by the LGBT censors: for instance: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756
This is from the US Institute of Health which found that "the proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually."
Harry
17 Jun 2015  #261
This is from the US Institute of Health which found that "the proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually."

I wonder why you don't quote the next sentence, i.e. the one which reads as follows:

This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.

Anyway, do you happen to have a comment about the study published by the official peer-reviewed journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics which concluded that "These limits are within current estimates of the prevalence of homosexuality in the general community."?

Perhaps you would like to tell us about the differences between Americans and Poles which mean that in America homosexuals are no more likely to be a threat as paedophiles than heterosexuals but in Poland things are, according to your claim, very very different and "about one-third of all homosexuals are paedophiles" as you put it?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
17 Jun 2015  #262
comment about the study published

The only commment is that all the true facts have been pulled under LGBT pressure.Twenty, even ten years ago there was lots of information on homosexual behaviour, gay-speicifc diseases and issues. Now even those studies that are published contain disclaimers like the one you mentioned: "This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children" -- straight out of hte LGBT propaganda arsenal.

That didn't just fall out of the sky. The scientists were approached and made offers they couldn't refuse.
The point is, everyone knows what side his bread is buttered on. Although scientists, physicians, judges prosecutors, etc. are supposed to be objective, they all have to pay the rent and put food on the table and anything that might jeopardise their position or job is a serious matter.

The ferocity and passion with which you spout altersexual propaganda makes one wonder whether you aren't a paid apologist.
jon357 63 | 14,110
17 Jun 2015  #263
That didn't just fall out of the sky. The scientists were approached and made offers they couldn't refuse.

Do tell.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
17 Jun 2015  #264
This of course is all new you, right? A true revelation.
And since when have you begun regarding the pope as infallible? Especially when he's not speaking ex cathdra?

Merged: Police raid home of suspected homosexual paedophile Tymochowicz - GW

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114871,18253566,Szesc_osob_z_zarzutami__tysiace_zatrzymanych_nosnikow.html#MT

GW reporting that police haved raided the home of Piotr Tymochowicz and found incriminating homo-paedophilic materials in his computer. He is suspected of heading a paedo gang, and charges have been laid against six people. Tymochowicz is a well-known political-image coach and adviser to Palikot.

He is known for publicly labelling public personalites from Najsztub to Ziobro as homosexuals.
Polsyr 6 | 769
2 Jul 2015  #265
thenews/1/9/Artykul/212310,Poles-critical-of-Churchs-stance-on-paedophile-priests

"As many as 72 percent of Poles think the Church treats the problem of paedophilia among priests too leniently"
Harry
2 Jul 2015  #266
"As many as 72 percent of Poles think the Church treats the problem of paedophilia among priests too leniently"

That is interesting. 72% of all Poles think that, while about 30% of all Poles are counted in church on the Sunday when the RCC counts attendance. Add those two figures together and you get an number that is very much within the statistical margin of error as accounting for all Poles. I wonder if those two figures are in some way related.
Polsyr 6 | 769
2 Jul 2015  #267
while about 30% of all Poles are counted in church on the Sunday when the RCC counts attendance

You mean the 30% that voluntarily subject themselves to thinly veiled hate speech and brainwashing? Yes, statistically they add up more or less. However, about 80% of the age group with children at school age feel more should be done...
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
2 Jul 2015  #268
in some way related.

Related only to your Sunday head-count obsession.
Harry
2 Jul 2015  #269
You mean the 30% that voluntarily subject themselves to thinly veiled hate speech and brainwashing?

You aren't being fair there. Most RCC priests do not engage in thinly veiled hate speech or brainwashing. The majority of RCC priests in Poland are good men. The problem is that, just as with the 2% of them which the pope says are paedophiles, the ones who engage in thinly veiled hate speech or brainwashing give the rest a bad name. The vast majority of Polish priests pray for both paedophiles and priests who engage in thinly veiled hate speech or brainwashing.
Polsyr 6 | 769
2 Jul 2015  #270
@Harry well said...


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