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Poland -- Europe's only counterweight to Russia


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Mar 2016 #1
The US decision to send an armoured brigade comprising dozens of APCs, tanks and other gear as well as 4,500 troops to Poland means, according to the Straford analytical centre, that Washington regards Warsaw as their main ally in this part of the world. Defence chief Antoni Macierewicz told a TV interviewer that Poland is regarded as the only force able to serve as a counterweight to Russia and that this decison changes the entire geopolitcial situation.

tvp.info/24663351/to-nie-jest-gest-dyplomatyczny-to-decyzja-zmieniajaca-sytuacje-geopolityczna-polski
Lyzko 33 | 7,989
30 Mar 2016 #2
From the Polish Corridor during (and before) WWII up till now, Poland has consistently served as the most strategic of the former Soviet satelites!

It is for this reason, which cannot be underestimated, that Poland today remains such a veritable lightning rod for democracy, freedom, and social unity, in the wake of her still palpable Communist Era past. Perhaps only Romania is as haunted by the ghosts of Communism as is present-day Poland.
TheOther 6 | 3,692
30 Mar 2016 #3
Wait until Trump is elected and sends Poland the invoice...
Lyzko 33 | 7,989
30 Mar 2016 #4
Unfortunately, Poland will probably end up paying it, if only to curry favor with the US.
Pol attorney 2 | 106
30 Mar 2016 #5
Maybe, just maybe, this is a good decision made by the US if it stops Russia's aggression against Poland -- but we all know that 4.500 troops will not be able to defend the whole territory, so maybe this is just a symbolic gesture to calm down the new govnt in Poland.

This is a small number in comparison with the number of troops that the US deployed in Germany and the territory of Poland and Germany is comparable in terms of area.
Crow 153 | 10,537
30 Mar 2016 #6
Anglos knows that Poland need just a little push in another military conflict with Russia and Poland (that what remain of Poland) would finish anglicanized and germanized completely. So anglos would do their best to push Poland. Beware Poles anglos are desperate now when losing uni-polar world. In order to prevent multi-polar world they need problems what only THEY can solve.

Defence chief Antoni Macierewicz told a TV interviewer that Poland is regarded as the only force able to serve as a counterweight to Russia and that this decison changes the entire geopolitcial situation.

and British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said: "Russia ignores the norms of international conduct and breaks the rules of the international system. That represents a challenge and a threat to all of us."

Source: British foreign secretary: Russia is threat to everyone
b92/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2016&mm=03&dd=30&nav_id=97534

Always vigilant Britain that have great friends in Poland, such is Antoni Macierewicz. With fiends like Macierewicz, Britain would fight for British interests to the last Pole. Then, when the last Pole fall, some Anglos would for sure invent appropriate joke on the account of those same Poles.

How is all that disgusting to me. i truly don`t like Britain. Nasty country.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,070
30 Mar 2016 #7
The US decision to send an armoured brigade comprising dozens of APCs, tanks and other gear as well as 4,500 troops .

What against a standing army of 1 million and reserves of two million, this aint no die hard film. you seen What Russia has done in syria

Why should Poland become anyone else's pawn in some stupid war game.
whocares
31 Mar 2016 #8
disgusting. they want to turn Poland into a playground for the devils wars.
Lyzko 33 | 7,989
31 Mar 2016 #9
It's called political football and the phrase is most apt in this case:-) Others might call Poland Europe's whipping boy.
Lwow Eagle 4 | 51
31 Mar 2016 #10
Trump is open to renegotiating the existing order. Why does the U.S. still have bases in Western Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall and communism? That doesn't make any sense anymore. If Trump invests in Poland, we will want to defend it. Trump won't take the nuclear option off the table, and the defense of the U.S. nuclear umbrella is all that Poland needs to prevent a war with Russia. With that, Poland no longer needs to worry about the fickle Germans as a major ally. Russia unilaterally abrogated the Budapest Memorandum, and the borders of the failed novel Ukrainian state are open to renegotiation. Trump will renegotiate that, and it is an opportunity that Poland would be foolish to miss to regain Lwów. It is a beautiful Polish city!

Wait until Trump is elected and sends Poland the invoice...

delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
31 Mar 2016 #11
and it is an opportunity that Poland would be foolish to miss to regain Lwów.

You clearly have no idea what "regaining L'viv" would involve. Here's a clue : Western Ukraine is very, very poor in many areas, and the population is openly hostile to any idea of any foreign power retaking their land. Poland is struggling to get the poorest Eastern regions up to the living standards of richer provinces, so what makes you think she has the money to incorporate a considerably poorer region?

Furthermore, the Polish population there is almost totally assimilated.

Trump is not going to renegotiate anything where Ukraine is concerned, and most of all, he's not going to suddenly do deals with the Russkies after riding an isolationist platform.

and the defense of the U.S. nuclear umbrella is all that Poland needs to prevent a war with Russia.

Hahahahaha. Naive, and only an American could speak like that. History shows us that the United States doctrine in a defensive war in Europe is to fall back to certain defensive points and then use tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield to ensure that the hinterland doesn't fall. The United States is not going to throw resources to defend Lublin or Białystok.
pweeg3
31 Mar 2016 #12
What against a standing army of 1 million and reserves of two million, this aint no die hard film.

I don't know where you get your numbers from, but they are very out of date.

Russia's armed forces are under 500K, of which about 100k can be considered combat troops. Demographic changes mean numbers are falling, 60K per year.

USA will station THREE combat brigades in Europe, thats 3 x 4200 men. 12600 combat troops in total,

news.yahoo/us-station-armored-brigade-eastern-europe-2017-151922715.html

Russia is a paper tiger. Using Syria as an example is a joke, less that fifty aircraft and no ground troops, proves nothing.

Poland is not a pawn, it not playing a game it has to defend itself against the Russian fascists.
Marsupial - | 886
31 Mar 2016 #13
Compared to Poland russia is huge. On the world stage not that big and very obsolete but definately a force to be reckoned with.
They know that like in uki land they can latch.on to somwhere and leech away. They know that western governments don't have the gonads or peoples support to throw off such a parasite since it will lead to full escelation. It makes a lot more sense to have token troops there to prevent the tick from gaining hold to start with.

Poland has had it's share of failed european help from pseudo allies in the past that's why we need the yanks as support. We wouldn't need it if the neighbour didnt posses certain traits such as paranoia, aggression, expansionist doctrine, untrustworthy personality, corrupt government, corrupt media, brainwashed population and a poor human rights record.

I welcome the.us solidarity come morale force, it sure beats the one our eu 'allies' have sent. Btw they are also going to have a goid time while there.
Lyzko 33 | 7,989
31 Mar 2016 #14
Poland, second only to France (or Spain?) is about the third largest country on the continent, economically too, she's quite significant in high tech particularly ("The Economist" from several years ago: 'Miracle on the Vistula'). True, she doesn't hold a candle to Germany as a powerhouse, Poland nonetheless is more than up to competing with her big, "bad" neighbor to the East - kindly remember the Aesop fable of the tortoise (Poland) and the hare (Russia). Russia is still a bear, and moves slower than we think despite Putin's macho posturings:-)
AdrianK9 6 | 368
31 Mar 2016 #15
Poland is very strong economically, yes that is true. It has a higher GDP than even countries like the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, etc. which are typically thought of as super rich countries. The people, yes very high GDP per capita and PPP - but as the economy overall - Poland is worth more, then again Poland has 3x-4x+ the residents of Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, etc. I believe it's in 23rd place now - who knows maybe one day it will be in the G-20.

Militarily, Poland is not that strong. History tells us that Poland cannot rely on NATO or the EU to help in case of a military conflict. No one helped Ukraine either, aside from some non-lethal aid which actually Poland sent quite a bit, because they are all too scared of Russia

The top brass in Poland ought to really consider developing an underground nuclear program or some kind of WMD... just in case... Look at North Korea - they threaten people all the time and have an army with Cold War technology at best, yet no one will invade them even after they shell S. Korean island because they have some crappy nukes.
Pol attorney 2 | 106
31 Mar 2016 #16
o really consider developing an underground nuclear program or some kind of WMD... just in case

Easier said than done. How do you expect to do it with so many Russian spies and agents in all the top positions in Poland?

After 70 years of communism/post-communism, bolshevism, liberalism and extreme corruption at all levels, the only person who can save Poland is ...Blessed Virgin Mary like she did in 1920 with her miraculous apparitions in the skies over radzymin and ossowo...
TheOther 6 | 3,692
31 Mar 2016 #17
Poland is very strong economically

No reason to get cocky, though. Let's wait and see what happens when Poland isn't the largest beneficiary of EU funds anymore.

economist.com/node/18176072

Quote:
"We're very narcissistic, says Ms Enright. We believed our boom was better than anyone else's."

Militarily, Poland is not that strong.

Exactly. "Poland is regarded as the only force able to serve as a counterweight to Russia" is completely over-estimating the power of Poland.
pweeg3
31 Mar 2016 #18
Easier said than done. How do you expect to do it with so many Russian spies and agents in all the top positions in Poland?

Vote them out of office in 5 years, in the hope they will relinquish power
AdrianK9 6 | 368
31 Mar 2016 #19
Easier said than done. How do you expect to do it with so many Russian spies and agents in all the top positions in Poland?

True. That's what the Czech did which was very smart after the revolution - they kicked all the Commies out and made sure they wouldn't go back into the government for at least 10 years. Poland did not and they remain in government to this day.

radzymin

Are you talking about the oil that appeared someone's bedroom?
Pol attorney 2 | 106
31 Mar 2016 #20
Vote them out of office in 5 years

President and the new PIS govt are fine so far.

I'm talking about all the mid-level and lower positions, most of them non-electable, being occupied for 70 years by communists and post-communists.

and this is where most of the decisions are being made and implemented...
pweeg3
31 Mar 2016 #21
Thats illogical..
AdrianK9 6 | 368
31 Mar 2016 #22
mid-level and lower positions

where most of the decisions are being made and implemented

I'd beg to differ... That'd be like saying the president implements his secretary's decision.... if society worked that way, things would probably be much better... people at the middle and at the bottom don't make the decisions - they're the foot soldiers that carry the big wigs decisions out...

Perhaps the middle and lower people analyze data, draw up documents, make suggestions, but it's usually up to the president, pm, chief justice's, and all the people at the top to make a decision.
Pol attorney 2 | 106
1 Apr 2016 #23
Thats illogical..

If you lived in Poland a bit longer, you would see very clearly that there is almost nothing logical here and common sense is not common (in fact very rare).

people analyze data, draw up documents, make suggestions,

Exactly. and most of all they COLLECT and then SUBMIT most vital data and intelligence to the decision-makers, like President or PM.

And each institution has its own interests in mind..neither the president nor the pm is able to control or verify the results of work of 10 's of thousands of mid-level employees and lower workers who do most of the REAL work..

Evidence: why do you think a tire in presidents Duda limo exploded and disintegarted into hundreds of pieces like a small bomb? coincidence?
Polson 5 | 1,770
1 Apr 2016 #24
I'm surprised there are still people believing in a Russian aggression of Poland.
The US will do anything to keep their feet (and army) on the European soil, including playing with European citizens' fear of a hypothetical Russian aggression.

Poland is not an ally of the US. It's just one of the only European states who still believes in what Uncle Sam says.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Apr 2016 #25
Evidence: why do you think a tire in presidents Duda limo exploded and disintegarted into hundreds of pieces like a small bomb? coincidence?

As they've said themselves, it was the result of driving over some debris on the A4.

Never experienced a blow-out?
Crow 153 | 10,537
1 Apr 2016 #26
Poland should refrain itself from provoking Russia, because its suits to Britain, in situation when Russia don`t have interests and don`t show intention to threaten Poland. Let Britain deal with Russia on its own and, what is obvious, dealing with Russia would mean dealing with China, too. Any invader on Russia would face not only Russian soldiers on the ground but also Chinese. That as long as war goes conventional. If/When things turns nasty, war would go nuclear. In any case, if involved, no matter directly or just as part of NATO, Poland as closest region to Russia would be incinerated and that even wouldn`t know who incinerated her, NATO allays, Russia or China.

So, let us speak frankly. Poland should go out of NATO. Once NATO maybe looked like solution, today is obvious problem.
Pol attorney 2 | 106
1 Apr 2016 #27
'm surprised there are still people believing in a Russian aggression of Poland.

you do realize that the casa plane crash and the smolensk plane crash was de facto a declaration of war againts Poland (and possibly Europe and the us)?
Crow 153 | 10,537
1 Apr 2016 #28
Duda had problems with his car. You say that is Russia behind that?

As for Smolenks crash, it was not Russian doing. Only NATO had interest to destroy Lech. Plus, to destroy him on Russian soil was chance NATO didn`t miss.
Polson 5 | 1,770
1 Apr 2016 #29
you do realize that the casa plane crash and the smolensk plane crash was de facto a declaration of war againts Poland (and possibly Europe and the us)?

A declaration of war against Poland and Europe and the US, really?
What for?
Why would Russia need to start another world war?
pweeg
1 Apr 2016 #30
Why would Russia need to start another world war?

Keep Putin in power.
Feed the Russian delusions that they are a 'superpower'.
Because the Russians think the West a a bunch of spineless cowards who would surrender to the macho Russians.


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