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Will EURO 2012 be a proud moment for Poland and its people or set back Poland 20 years?



krakow73 1 | 6    
8 Jan 2012  #1

Let's see .... horrible roads, bad customer service, pay toilets, hooligans, and a horrible national team that won't get out of the first round ..... I say it sets Poland back 20 years.


blackadder 1 | 122    
8 Jan 2012  #2

No man,it's great thing for Poland.Hordes of football fans=you'll sell more beer than 5 Oktoberfests.Pay toilets aren't a bad thing-extra money again.Polish national team plays at home and it's always extra kick for players,they give more for the team.I'm quite sure Poland will finish at least second in group,since you had much luck in the draw.
Wedle 16 | 500    
8 Jan 2012  #3

horrible roads

Try the Ukraine, then you won't complain.

bad customer service

If there are tips involved Poles provide excellent service.

pay toilet

Better to pay for clean toilets,than enter a sh1tfest.

hooligans

All countries have hooligans.

a horrible national team that won't get out of the first round

50% of the teams will be excluded in the first elimination.

I say it sets Poland back 20 years.

I say you need to get out a lot more and see what is going on around you, it may not be as efficient and organized as Germany, then how many countries are?
Sebastian 6 | 108    
20 Jan 2012  #4

Let's see .... horrible roads, bad customer service, pay toilets, hooligans, and a horrible national team that won't get out of the first round ..... I say it sets Poland back 20 years.

Thats a load of BS. Horrible roads? Poland's roads may not be perfect, but you have to understand that it takes TIME to have Western European infrastructure. Its not going to happen overnight, and they are getting better every year.

I agree with you on customer service, that is one area which needs improvement, but it is slowly changing.

Whats wrong with pay toilets? I'd rather pay one euro and have a nice clean toilet than a dirty toilet for free. There are pay toilets ALL over Europe. Germany, Spain, Sweden, Poland, Italy etc, all have pay toilets, its not a Polish thing.

Hooligans are everywhere.

Poland may not have the best European football team, but it is certainly not the worst. Many countries in Europe have football teams which are way worse than Poland's football team.

And how exactly will this set Poland back 20 years? Typical Polish complaining, I'm not surprised.
ReservoirDog - | 132    
20 Jan 2012  #5

Typical Polish complaining, I'm not surprised.

What made you think he is polish??
noreenb 7 | 554    
20 Jan 2012  #6

Can you predict that?
Simple question, I know.
Take the theory of quantum mechanics as an answer.
Ironside 44 | 8,301    
20 Jan 2012  #7

Thats a load of BS. Horrible roads? Poland's roads may not be perfect, but you have to understand that it takes TIME to have Western European infrastructure. Its not going to happen overnight, and they are getting better every year.

hahaha !
are you kidding ?

I say it sets Poland back 20 years.

if only it would be a good start , but then you mean that as an insult ......progress ? you are the one with the18century mindset
andrew jab - | 33    
10 Mar 2012  #8

I actually think it will be a great occasion and for me its quite emotional to see Poland back on the map of Europe and holding prestige competitions.

LONG LIVE POLAND!!
PS the football team is very weak i can see them losing each game which is a shame because if the team were to play well and win the whole nation would be partying and the atmosphere would be memorable.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,827    
10 Mar 2012  #9

I actually think it will be a great occasion and for me its quite emotional to see Poland back on the map of Europe and holding prestige competitions.

It's a massive deal for Poland - if it all comes off smoothly, Poland will have joined the big boys at last.
Wroclaw 45 | 5,409    
10 Mar 2012  #10

it will be overshadowed by the london olympics
delphiandomine 87 | 15,827    
10 Mar 2012  #11

(off topic, I apologise)

I'm expecting London 2012 to be a disaster. That bloody logo and mascots...

I actually think Poland and Ukraine will pull it off - there will be at least one case of hooligans rioting, and I suspect the police will utterly beat them into submission as a result.
andrew jab - | 33    
10 Mar 2012  #12

it will be overshadowed by the london olympics

The main actions gets underway on july 27th.
The euros are in june.
Wroclaw 45 | 5,409    
10 Mar 2012  #13

that's my point.

when euro 2012 is over it will soon be forgotten about.

there will be at least one case of hooligans rioting

i think i said something similar elsewhere.
rychlik 41 | 374    
4 May 2012  #14

Krakow73 you're a troll. Or a jew in the west, trying to provoke online. I know your tricks.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,867    
5 May 2012  #15

when euro 2012 is over it will soon be forgotten about.

Depends on the result. If some of the smaller teams do well, their fans will always look back on the tournament with nostalgia.

Hell, I was only a nipper, but anytime I hear of Orlando, I remember Houghton lobbing Pagliuca.

This could have a good affect on exports to some countries and of course repeat tourism.
Danzig_forever    
10 May 2012  #16

Merged: Euro 2012, will it be a disaster?

The Euro 2012 is already next month and in one hand the infrastructure is far from being ready. The highways are still being built and far to be finished, the train system in Poland before the second wold war was better than now, bad connections from the airports to the city centers. It is expected that there will be a lot of traffic during the euro cup due to the deficient polish infrastructure. Add to that the craziness of the polish drivers.

On the other hand, Poland will get a lot of attention and the hooligan gangs will probably use this opportunity so be seen abroad and behave like Neanderthals.

The only good thing for Poland is that it will look not as bad as Ukraine.

so what do you think about this?, will the Euro 2012 become a disaster for the reputation of Rzeczpospolita Polska?
ShawnH 8 | 1,503    
10 May 2012  #17

The only good thing for Poland is that it will look not as bad as Ukraine.

There's an optimistic perspective for you.
peterweg 36 | 2,271    
10 May 2012  #18

Its true though. Even if only 95% of motorways are complete it will be much more than in Ukraine.
gdyniaguy 1 | 284    
17 May 2012  #19

Merged: What will Euro 2012 bring to Poland?

Hi Guys

as an Englishman living in Gdynia i'm amazed at the amount of stuff that i read regarding the 100's of thousands of people who will come to Poland for Euro 2012. Having lived in the UK during Euro 1996 i know that this wont be the case. A study by Liverpool University, conducted to assess the economic impact on the region when it acted as a city host for Euro 1996, found that the 30,000 visitors to Liverpool during Euro 1996 created just 30 jobs, all of which were temporary....

What are your thought's on how Poland will benefit (or not benefit) and how it will effect Poland's future?

for me? the benefits could be..

worldwide press coverage of Poland leading to a future increase in tourism
2012 football pitches created (although ive seen none...polish kids tend to play netball ..sorry basketball)
the general need to try to improve infrastucture with help from hand outs from the EU (roads!!!!, airports, railways etc)

the downside could be...

Racism and football violence... seriously it's like stepping back into 1970's England on match days!
Rip off merchants...hotels, restaurants and taxis... ticket touts!!!

Lets hope for a good and safe 2012!
Hipis - | 227    
17 May 2012  #20

A study by Liverpool University, conducted to assess the economic impact on the region when it acted as a city host for Euro 1996, found that the 30,000 visitors to Liverpool during Euro 1996 created just 30 jobs, all of which were temporary....

The tournament lasts for about 5 weeks so of course the jobs will only be temporary but look at the jobs that were created in order to build the new stadia and infrastructure.

Rip off merchants...hotels, restaurants and taxis... ticket touts!!!

Is this a problem exclusive to Euro 2012 in Poland? Get real!

Racism and football violence... seriously it's like stepping back into 1970's England on match days!

"Rafal Pankowski, a member of Never Again and the Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network, says racist incidents are less frequent now.

Clubs now have safety directors and stewards trained to recognise racist banners. Never Again is involved in their training and its volunteers lead educational programmes for schools.

"We are not promising we can eliminate racism overnight but overall Euro 2012 has had a positive impact in terms of raising awareness of racism in Polish football and society," Mr Pankowski told the BBC.

Some argue that racism and violence are much more prevalent among supporters of rival clubs than they are among fans of the Polish national team."
peterweg 36 | 2,271    
17 May 2012  #21

Poland could gain zł.4 bln on return visits after Euro 2012

17th May 2012

During a period of just three weeks, soccer fans and tourists who come to Poland for the Euro 2012 soccer championships will spend an estimated zł.700 million, said Andrzej Bogucki, member of the board at PL.2012, during a presentation at the European Economic Congress in Katowice.

Up until now, around 1.5 million tickets have been sold for all the games, but PL.2012, which is organizing the tournament in Poland, expects that another one million fans without tickets will visit Poland, wyborcza.biz reported.

Mr Bogucki also added that he is counting heavily on the so-called "Barcelona effect," meaning that soccer fans will return to the country after the championships as tourists. That would bring in an additional zł.4 billion, he estimated.

The tournament, which is co-hosted by Ukraine and Poland, will start on June 8.

wbj.pl/article-59137-poland-could-gain-zl4-bln-on-return-visits-after-euro-2012.html?typ=pam

I suspect the affect on Krakow will be quite dramatic as three countries TV stations will be broadcasting daily from the city. In effect it will be a very long, intense publicity show for the city.

"Barcelona effect," olympicstudies.uab.es/pdf/wp084_eng.pdf
phtoa 9 | 236    
17 May 2012  #22

Im honestly more concerned about the average pole.

Will the prices during the euro go up at restaurants/bar etc. and will the prices continue to be higher for awhile after the euro?

In that case I cant see how an average pole can afford living.
gdyniaguy 1 | 284    
17 May 2012  #23

Hi Hipis

Hi Hips

Regarding rip off merchants look at the ticket forum on here.... the Poles seem to be taking it to a whole new level.

Hi Peter

Great to see you painting a Polish Government view of Euro 2012. 1.5 million tickets sold to probably 200,000 foreigners at most (most will have 3 tickets at least) and 1 millions without tickets (so an extra 200,000 in the tricity area are their that many extra beds??????? Yeh really!!!) Sometimes the general naivety of the Poles and people on here is immense.

The 'Barcelona' effect only happened in Barcelona and it was the Olympics (a worldwide event on a global scale)....take a look at the effect on Athens or Montreal! Even cities and countries holding the world cup didn't benefit as much as the rubbish the Polish press and government are spouting out. FGS they arn't even holding the final here.

Coming from a country that regularly hold massive international events (olympics, world cup, euro cup etc) i know that Krakow, Gdansk, Warsaw and Poznan are never going to benefit from the after effects in tourism like Barcelona. Not in a million years. if you've ever been to Barcelona and to Poland you'll know why.... Newcastle, Birmingham and Manchester didn't become an international tourist hub after Euro 86. So what makes Poland any different? (great roads? fantastic infrastructure? worldwide airlinks?, fantasic food?)

Hi Expat

There is a fine line between making some money and ripping of tourists. Alot of the Poles seem to think that Euro 2012 will leave a residual long-term boost for tourism. This all could be outdone by excessive greed.

Tell me you've never been charged more then a Pole because you arn't Polish!
peterweg 36 | 2,271    
17 May 2012  #24

>>Coming from a country that regularly hold massive international events (olympics, world cup, euro cup etc)

1948, 1966, 1996

pushing it to call it regular, don't you think?

i know that Krakow, Gdansk, Warsaw and Poznan are never going to benefit from the after effects in tourism like Barcelona.

So the purpose of your visit is to tell us how crap it will be and not, as your title says discuss the benefits of the Euro 2012.

Great, another ******* Troll.

This all could be outdone by excessive greed.

Because they will pay £2 for a beer and think its expensive
Hipis - | 227    
17 May 2012  #25

Hi Hips

Regarding rip off merchants look at the ticket forum on here.... the Poles seem to be taking it to a whole new level.

Not really. I was in Germany for WC 2006 and Austria for Euro 2008 and people were trying to sell tickets at those events up to 4x, 5x ticket face value. What hacks me off about this is that the footballing authorities do sod all to stop it happening. Of course football fans could also help themselves by refusing to buy off these guys. I've offered quite a few of them face value of their tickets plus admin and postage expenses but of course they've all knocked me back. One guy even told me he wasn't bothered if he didn't sell his remaining tickets because he'd already made a profit from the tickets he'd already bought and he couldn't care less if genuine fans like myself are deprived of the chance of seeing my country play on home turf in a major tournament.

There is a fine line between making some money and ripping of tourists. Alot of the Poles seem to think that Euro 2012 will leave a residual long-term boost for tourism. This all could be outdone by excessive greed.

Tell me you've never been charged more then a Pole because you arn't Polish!

Yes, there is a fine line but you usually find that in most countries that in towns that have a lot of tourists you will find that stuff tends to be a little bit more expensive. I tend to gauge things by the price of a beer eg in Warsaw I could pay between 9-12PLN, in Kraków 8PLN is not uncommon but in Katowice or Kutno between 4.50-7PLN is the norm. Eating out pretty much follows the same trend although I do know where there are a Bar Mleczny or two where the food is pretty good so I tend to eat cheap anyway :D

I can't say anyone has tried charging me more as a tourist than they would a local but then again my Polish is good enough to get by.

Coming from a country that regularly hold massive international events (olympics, world cup, euro cup etc) i know that Krakow, Gdansk, Warsaw and Poznan are never going to benefit from the after effects in tourism like Barcelona. Not in a million years.

The Olympics had a massive boost on Barcelona simply because it had suffered decades of neglect under the Franco régime. The Olympics helped transform the city and put it on the tourist map. Any tourist destination that is already well visited won't see that much of an boost. Will London benefit from a post Olympics tourist boost? I doubt it very much as it's already a major tourist destination. Why hasn't Athens benefited? Easy, anyone who has ever been to Athens will know that apart from the area around the Parthenon the rest of the city is a dump and you can see all there is to see in 3 days so why bother going back.

I also doubt the Polish host cities will see much of a post Euro tourist boost but other parts of the country might. Kraków and Warsaw are already well established destinations for tourists, Wrocław and Poznań less so but I'm sure people who haven't been to Poland before will be pleasantly surprised.
gdyniaguy 1 | 284    
18 May 2012  #26

Peterweg

Great the old 'he has a valid, if not different point of view from me and isn't singing Komorowski's 'successful Polish' hymnsheet so he must be a TROLL' argument!!! Very original!!!

If you want you can add to this the Commonwealth games, World athletic indoor championships, gran prix's as well as the 380 premierleague matches that bring in overseas visitors and I think you'll be hard pushed to knock the UK's credentials when it comes to holding major international and national sporting events over the past 60 years.

Hipis

tickets are going on sale here for 15x face value!!

Football supporters on the whole wont travel outside of about 3km from the stadiums (a fact), most of them will either fly in for the game, watch the game, hotel and then fly straight back or will travel enmass between the cities only stopping for the games and to get drunk in city centres. Football fans on a whole dont visit museums, nature reserves or go on day trips to historic castles whilst at a tournament.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,778    
18 May 2012  #27

To answer the OP's original question, barring any major catastrophic event? Neither.
It will likely be JUST a sporting event and bring in revenue over a short period of time which will hopefully offset the public investment. I think people really need to take it easy with the hyperbole.
peterweg 36 | 2,271    
18 May 2012  #28

tickets are going on sale here for 15x face value!!

Football supporters on the whole wont travel outside of about 3km from the stadiums (a fact), most of them will either fly in for the game, watch the game, hotel and then fly straight back or will travel enmass between the cities only stopping for the games and to get drunk in city centres. Football fans on a whole dont visit museums, nature reserves or go on day trips to historic castles whilst at a tournament.

When I went to the French world cup in 98 there were no hotels withing 15km ( Toulouse has 15k beds for a 40k stadium). After the match we had to walk to the hotel as there was no transport of any kind. French hooligans were roaming the street, we had bottles thrown at us from passing cars. The match was England Romania, the problems were from the French not either team.

I spend two weeks in France and did a lot more than simply visit football matches. We had tickets to sell (you couldn't buy tickets to watch you own team so you had to trade.) and sold them for a lot (most to an Iranian couple in Paris, $2000 delivered by eurostar to Paris by my brother )

In Germany I went to the Australia matches, most people didn't go to matches but went to fan zones. It was like one massive festival, with football, and it was a great party and showed Germany in a great light.

I bought tickets just before the match and they were much cheaper than the online pre-sales. Is it worth paying ten times face value for a ticket? Yes. But watching it for free in a Fan zone is as good......
gdyniaguy 1 | 284    
18 May 2012  #29

Hi Peter

I for one will be travelling to Gdansk to see if i can get tickets just before kick off 9at face value or just above) because i live here i can afford to do it.

I can't deny the atmosphere outside of the stadium can be just as good as inside. There is however two problems with this tournament. Firstly, the hooligans in Eastern Europe are a different breed you might get hardcore supporters making the treck or few expats but it will put a fare majority of non-ticket fans off coming. I know how the Polish fans behave and frankly worse then england in the 1970's and 80's and you like me can probably remember that.

And Secondly.. France and Germany have much bigger expat communities of foreign nationals then Poland and so fans could turn up easily without tickets. I can go to Gdansk and drink with the Irish and sit in the centre of the fan zone and have a pint. I can then take the SKM back home.. but trust me expats around here are like hens teeth. I remember Euro 96 and Newcastle wasn't awash with French, Bulgarians or Romanians... it's the expats and how easy it is to travel last minute that allows fan zones to florish.

Poland isnt like Spain (re barcelona) the cities and coast don't compare from a tourist point of view (trust me ive travelled the whole of Poland and Spain)... in the West of Europe what is a 2 hour train journey is a 12 hour nightmare in Poland and the fans will have had enough travelling to be bothered taking a 2 hour train journey to look at a salt mine or an unpside down house.
Hipis - | 227    
18 May 2012  #30

Football supporters on the whole wont travel outside of about 3km from the stadiums (a fact),

Is this a fact according to gdyniaguy or a fact attributed to a genuine study into the habits of football fans?

Football fans on a whole dont visit museums, nature reserves or go on day trips to historic castles whilst at a tournament.

Really? When I was in Germany and Austria that's exactly what I did as did a lot of my friends. I also met a lot of other football fans whilst doing this. Who wants to spend 3 days between games in a city centre sitting in a bar when there are plenty of other things to go and see that you might not get chance to see again. What you say might be true of English football fans though.

tickets are going on sale here for 15x face value!!

There's a difference between what people are asking and what they are selling for. There's a lot of repeat posters on the thread on this forum who have failed to sell their tickets at the ridiculous prices they've been asking. Furthermore anyone who pays 15x fave value for a ticket is an idiot IMO.

Poland isnt like Spain (re barcelona) the cities and coast don't compare from a tourist point of view (trust me ive travelled the whole of Poland and Spain)..

So have I and I've seen a hell of a lot of crap in Spain. Spain was a bit of a hole before it joined the EU back in the 80s and they've done pretty well out of the EU funds which have helped restore many of their crumbling cities, building new motorways, airports etc. Poland is still recovering from 45 years of a Russian puppet government (thanks to your government of the day) and has only been in the EU 8 years. Kraków, Wrocław and Gdansk have beautifully restored old towns so even if people don't venture outside those cities there's more for them to see and do than the likes of Newcastle, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool did back in 1996.

Firstly, the hooligans in Eastern Europe are a different breed you might get hardcore supporters making the treck or few expats but it will put a fare majority of non-ticket fans off coming. I know how the Polish fans behave and frankly worse then england in the 1970's and 80's and you like me can probably remember that.

Sorry, you have that wrong. Polish hooligans will not attack random fans unlike English hooligans. Most of their fights are pre-arranged with other hooligan groups. They have their own honour system and will punish their own for bringing shame to their group if anyone attacks a random, non hooligan fan from another club or country. If there's any trouble it's likely to haver been pre-arranged or will be between hooligan groups and the ochrona/policja.

I know many ticketless fans who are going over and those who aren't going have been put off by the stupid price of accommodation not because they think there is a likelihood of trouble.




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