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Ethnic tensions erupt in Ełk, Poland



NoToForeigners 7 | 857    
2 Jan 2017  #31

@RubasznyRumcajs
If you believe that Polish worker would stab someone inside that Kebab instead of simply calling police then you're out of your mind or haven't been to Poland for a long time.

Daniel deserved to get punched in the face and police intervention. Not death.

That Muslim scum forgot its not Middle East and killing someone in broad light won't be justified.


RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 388    
2 Jan 2017  #32

(again, apologies for post underneath my old one)

fakty.interia.pl/polska/news-policja-zniszczono-mieszkanie-ktore-wynajmowal-jeden-z-zatrz,nId,2331159
"(..)Doszło też do próby podpalenia mieszkania jednego z zatrzymanych ws. zabójstwa. Rafał Jackowski z zespołu prasowego warmińsko-mazurskiej policji potwierdził w poniedziałek PAP, że w niedzielę podczas manifestacji doszło do zniszczenia wynajmowanego przez jednego zatrzymanych mieszkania.(..)"

so already some idiot tried to burn the algierian's guy flat- nevermind that's on the first-floor of multi-floor building (blok)- and also nevermind he was just renting it, not owning it. great!
NoToForeigners 7 | 857    
2 Jan 2017  #33

@RubasznyRumcajs
Clear sign for savages to better stay away haha
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 388    
2 Jan 2017  #34

If you believe that Polish worker would stab someone inside that Kebab instead of simply calling police then you're out of your mind or haven't been to Poland for a long time.

guy came to the shop, argued with them, stole drinks, run away, got caught by kebab workers, stolen good were retrieved- there is no information about him getting punched (i'd frankly speaking break his arms, i bloody hate thieves), than he (and his friend) came back and thrown firework into the place. they run after him instantly, fight started, ended with main perpetrator getting stabbed.

accident, unfortunate but still an accident- definatly not a planned murder.

That Muslim scum forgot its not Middle East and killing someone in broad light won't be justified.

... from what we know, he never had any problems with the police- unlike the chav who got sniffed out. maybe you should rethink whom you call a "scum".

Clear sign for savages to better stay away haha

I wont even comment that.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,165    
2 Jan 2017  #35

accident, unfortunate but still an accident- definatly not a planned murder.

It's not a accident if you chase after someone with a knife and someone gets killed, knives kill people the guy with the knife in his hand would know this, therefore it's murder.
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 388    
2 Jan 2017  #36

actually, no. one could forget he hold a knife, if you momentarily start chasing someone you may, in the anger, forget what you hold in your hand. in that case, it would be a homicide, but not a murder.
NoToForeigners 7 | 857    
2 Jan 2017  #37

@dolnoslask
Of course it's a murder. 2 of them are charged. Polish police doesn't charge with out significant proof therefore I imagine one was stabbing him while the other holding him in place.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,165    
2 Jan 2017  #38

momentarily start chasing someone you may, in the anger, forget what you hold in your hand.

This is a typical poor excuse that murderers use to defend their actions, it is not likely to wash in a court of law.
Ironside 44 | 8,307    
2 Jan 2017  #39

his life was under attack,

Chemikiem that is Poland. That a lone 21 years old on a rampage would be aiming at killing someone is inconvincible as much as his actions that day were inappropriate.

One of the most sensible answers on this thread.

Sure, nobody sane is condoning action of a few people who were destroying property. That fact that people gathered there tell me that apart from the fact that people do not trust authorities to sort those issues out that something else is on the menu. Wheatear it is only anti-Muslim hysteria or there is something that outsiders don't know - its hard to tell.

There is rumour that those Muslim employees have been acting in a way that rubbed locals the wrong way prior to that act.

So you think a mob applauding the hooligans throwing stones and fighting the police isn't shocking?

I think that you should withhold your judgment before you learn something more about it. Poland has no real elites in charge no wonder that people do not trust some buzzers.

I don't find it shocking people all over the world are acting like that - maybe with the exception of Germany where the police would prevent people from gathering. Germany is an oppressive state/ controlling like the Borg.

It seems the community had serious problems with him before that.

Should have flog him in the public square or hang him. That beside the point here. In Poland you cannot even defend yourself propyl because there is always trial and you can be find guilty of injuring your assailant or armed robber entering your house. Why random Muslims think they can stab him to dead for less?

so far- he was the scum who got killed. people react only because the suspects' religion-

Well maybe be as it is - there was no call to stab him. As for people they can react as they want. 300 people didn't gather there to destroy property by to show that they are afraid and worried.

I seriously doubt that that dead dude has as many friends and family.
If such a mood is not addressed quickly and wisely there are always some stray elements that would start trouble.
The bottom line is there is anti-Muslim sentiment in Poland and not only in Poland - no surprise there. How many years people have been fed terrorist stories?

Do you blame it on the people?
After2020    
2 Jan 2017  #40

RR, allow the Police and prosecutor to do their job, once the facts have been released then people can asses the evidence available. What we know as fact is that one person is dead and two people have been charged with his murder.Many people from around the world will be interested in this case so it is necessary to follow the law verbatim.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,165    
2 Jan 2017  #41

necessary to follow the law verbatim.

This we must do.
It is important that this is not blown out of proportion by the media , possibly encouraging riot arson and murder on the streets, as happened in the UK after the incident with Mark Duggan, Poland and the Polish people are more civilised, so I have faith that people will await more information from the authorities prior to making any judgments.
NoToForeigners 7 | 857    
2 Jan 2017  #42

apart from the fact that people do not trust authorities to sort those issues out that something else is on the menu.

More and more people trust the police mostly thanks to what police achieved under Pis rule. Spectacular arrests, Minister of Justice taking action personally. Crimes lower in numbers. Even 18 old cases are being solved.

We are very sensitive to foreigners committing crimes on our soil. That's our trait and that's the thing a foreigner can't know and understand.

How many years people have been fed terrorist stories?

LOL. We aren't fed with those. We are witnessing those in many many countries where muslim minorities are relevant and we are connecting number of terrorist attacks with the amount of Muslims present in a country.

We can clearly see that fewer Muslims = fewer problems.

Its simple logic yet leftists call us racists because us using common sense is against their agendas.
Crnogorac3 1 | 244    
2 Jan 2017  #43

RR I have an apple orchard outside my house. Every year they steal from me, moreover, every year several times I catch people while they are stealing. Still I did not kill anyone. Does that mean to you I do not have integrity because I thought that these people's lives are worth more than my apples?
Crnogorac3 1 | 244    
2 Jan 2017  #44

so far- he was the scum who got killed.

Daniel is in a body bag, at least have some minimal decency to show respect for the dead. Usually I am against any form or type of censorship, however in your case I sincerely hope when Vincent returns your profile on polishforums will last no longer than a drop of water on the pavement would on a sunny day.
After2020    
2 Jan 2017  #45

NTF '' We are very sensitive to foreigners committing crimes on our soil. That's our trait and that's the thing a foreigner can't know and understand.'' So in essence what you are saying is that only Poles are allowed to commit crime in Poland? This is probably the most backward statement I have ever read on this forum. I would suggest NTF this is your uneducated trait, you do not speak for all Polish people,I know Polish people who are ashamed at the behavior of some Poles in the UK. What you may not understand NTF, when you travel to a foreign land you are both guest and ambassador and should act accordingly in that manner. It is absolutely not acceptable to commit crime at home or abroad on the basis of you being Polish... Ludicrous.
johnny reb 13 | 2,481    :-(
2 Jan 2017  #46

allow the Police and prosecutor to do their job, once the facts have been released then people can asses the evidence available.

Right on as we could hash this over with "what if's" and "probably's" all day.

therefore I imagine one was stabbing him while the other holding him in place.

Is that what happened or are you just starting rumors to confuse the facts ?

this needs to be investigated by the proper authorities before any conclusions are drawn.

Well said and correctly said.
Was the punk high on drugs ? Was he drunk out of his mind ? Both ? Did he threaten the shop owners life ?
A normal person would not do such a thing as to rob a business for entertainment.

The 21-year old was summoned to the prosecutor's office four times and in 2016 he was prosecuted for robbery and issuing threats to people

Now that sheds some light on this punk dunnit.

unlike the chav who got sniffed out. maybe you should rethink whom you call a "scum".

The Polish kid was definitely was an out of control punk looking for trouble and he found it.

accident, unfortunate but still an accident- definatly not a planned murder.

Yup and if I were to "guess" I would have to say this will be the courts conclusion also, No Intent.

knives kill people

No, people kill people just like guns don't kill people.

therefore it's murder.

Yes BUT, the courts will most likely find that it was not murder with 'INTENT'.

it would be a homicide, but not a murder.

I agree, if you can't prove 'intent' then it will go down as a homicide.
When the shop owner grabbed the knife (for self defense) was it his intent to kill the punk or was it his intent to only chase him and beat him.

When the shop owner felt his life was threatened during the ensuing fight he deleted the threat.
If the shop owner would not have chased him out of the shop and had killed him in the shop he might have got off but since he left the safety of his shop to pursue the matter in a justifiable rage he will be convicted of homicide.

So far however it sounds to me like the immigrant did the country of Poland a favor.
NoToForeigners 7 | 857    
2 Jan 2017  #47

So in essence what you are saying is that only Poles are allowed to commit crime in Poland?

No. I said why there was a crowd there. No crime is allowed in Poland.
Chemikiem 4 | 894    
2 Jan 2017  #48

Another person has been charged with murder of Daniel. It's a citizen of Algeria.

He is the owner of the restaurant apparently.

people react only because the suspects' religion

This is exactly what's happening.

That a lone 21 years old on a rampage would be aiming at killing someone is inconvincible as much as his actions that day were inappropriate.

That's not what I said Iron, where did I mention rampage? What i was trying to say though is that from the point of view of the attackers, they may not have realised who threw that firework until they got outside the restaurant. Looking outside from a lit interior, I doubt they would have seen much at all. They may genuinely have thought they were under attack, not necessarily from the victim, and that the firework may have been the first of many.

Of course that doesn't justify taking the law into their own hands, going outside armed with a knife and stabbing someone to death.

Wheatear it is only anti-Muslim hysteria

I would say that is exactly what it is. You only have to read some of the comments on this thread to see that.

300 people didn't gather there to destroy property by to show that they are afraid and worried.

People are worried due to current world events, but that is no excuse for destroying property in a mob type mentality and people were encouraging that. No-one should have the right to take the law into their own hands.Trying to burn down the Algerian owner's flat? In a building occupied by others too

? Total disregard for the life of others in that building.

The bottom line is there is anti-Muslim sentiment in Poland and not only in Poland -

Yes and it will only get worse I think.

Do you blame it on the people?

Mostly I blame the media for whipping up anti-Muslim feelings. There is also a degree of ignorance in that some people equate the word Muslim with terrorism and cannot seem to separate the two. It is a bit like saying that the IRA are representative of all Irish people.

I can understand people being scared and fearful, I certainly don't blame them for that, but it has to be put into perspective.

It is important that this is not blown out of proportion by the media , possibly encouraging riot arson and murder on the streets,

Oh I'm sure it will be as is usually the case, they have much to answer for in my opinion.
Ironside 44 | 8,307    
2 Jan 2017  #49

So in essence what you are saying is that only Poles are allowed to commit crime in Poland?

No one is 'permitted to commit crimes 'you dimwit!

Is that what happened or are you just starting rumors to confuse the facts ?

Seems like at this stage nobody knows what really happened, except that he was stabbed outside the shop.

So far however it sounds to me like the immigrant did the country of Poland a favor.

Hmm....?

More and more people trust the police mostly

Your political statements do not refute what I have said.

We aren't fed with those.

Sure you're just like everyone. Don't tell it has no effect on people.
Crnogorac3 1 | 244    
2 Jan 2017  #50

It should be taken into consideration that this is a group of people, all foreign nationals. Imagine that 4 Poles go to Turkey to sell fast food and stab someone with a knife for throwing a firecracker. I agree, probably no one would say that these are Christians, but that's because there is not currently underway a Christian migration in Asia, moreover an Islamic one in Europe.

RR with his comments only raises tensions and defends the 4 bandits who killed a man because of a firecracker. So I would then everyday I should be killing someone because I do not like something. It's called life in the city where you have to adapt to people and they to you.

Tension slowly but surely is growing, encouraged by extremists who want to impose their story. The fact that there is ISIS, and that the extremists gathered there commit brutal murder and terrorist acts seeking to achieve their goals leads us to equate Islam and fanaticism transformed into terrorism.

The point is that there comes a time when more and more people will be taking justice into their own hands. When four enflamed idiots come out with knives and kill one 21 year old who thought that throwing firecrackers was an act of enjoyment and not provocation, the answer is three to four hundred revolted members of the Polish community embarking on revenge. Where this will lead I do not know but for sure there will not be peace there for long.
After2020    
2 Jan 2017  #51

NTF- Ironside. Post 42 by NTF '' We are very sensitive to foreigners committing crimes on our soil. That's our trait and that's the thing a foreigner can't know and understand.'' My retort - So in essence what you are saying is that only Poles are allowed to commit crime in Poland? You can either be sensitive to all crimes on your soil by all criminals irrespective of nationality or you can discriminate. I would remind you that on the front cover of your passport it states you are a European union member,each and everyone of the citizens of those 28 countries has the same rights as you as a Polish national in Poland even though they are foreigner.
johnny reb 13 | 2,481    :-(
2 Jan 2017  #52

they may not have realised who threw that firework until they got outside the restaurant. They may genuinely have thought they were under attack,

Very good point and coming from a war torn country's they could claim Post Tramadic Stress Syndrome and be found not guilty.
They may have thought the fireworks were gun shots or a bomb and wigged out.
TicTacToe    
2 Jan 2017  #53

If four none Muslim guys killed a Muslim in a Muslim country, chances are they would now be dead.
dolnoslask 2 | 1,165    
2 Jan 2017  #54

Interesting report from radio 5, polish english subtitles, ignore the inflamatory title typical of live leak

liveleak.com/view?i=b41_1483338221
Ironside 44 | 8,307    
2 Jan 2017  #55

coming from a war torn country's

Do you mean Tunisia and Algeria?

My retort - So in essence what you are saying is that only Poles are allowed to commit crime

Not really, he is saying that if a crime is committed by a foreigner it's naturally get more attention than the same crime committed by a local. Saying that someone is allowed to commit a crime is a silly thing to say even as a retort.
nothanks - | 663    
2 Jan 2017  #56

(buying a kebab you're settling an Arab)

Harsh or not, is this statement not correct? Unless Native Poles have started selling Kebab's themselves.
johnny reb 13 | 2,481    :-(
2 Jan 2017  #57

Do you mean Tunisia and Algeria?

From Yemen to Syria, Afghanistan to Tunisia the Islamic civil war is global.
The Algerian Civil War was an armed conflict between the Algerian Government and various Islamic rebel groups which began in 1991.
NoToForeigners 7 | 857    
2 Jan 2017  #58

Not really, he is saying that if a crime is committed by a foreigner it's naturally get more attention than the same crime committed by a local.

Exactly.
OP mafketis 16 | 4,733    
2 Jan 2017  #59

What i was trying to say though is that from the point of view of the attackers

Why are you so interested in the point of view of the attackers (ie killers)?

My own feeling is that there are no greater lessons to be learned here. An aspiring thug got into it with people from a very violent culture. The results say more about dumb, violent young men than anything else. I'm not happy the guy got killed, I don't care that the violent young men in the restaurant have effectively ruined their lives.

On the other hand (there's always another hand), muslims have gotten a bad reputation (through the actions of muslims themselves) and so crimes committed by them will attract more scrutiny and/or arouse more emotions.
Crnogorac3 1 | 244    
2 Jan 2017  #60

Why are you so interested in the point of view of the attackers (ie killers)?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3528236/Male-Norwegian-politician-raped-asylum-seeker-says-feels-GUILTY-attacker-deported-man-suffer-Somalia.html

dailywire.com/news/4744/norwegian-politician-raped-somali-migrant-feels-robe rt-kraychik

jihadwatch.org/2016/04/norway-leftist-feels-guilty-that-muslim-who-raped-him-was-deported
This is something called the "Stockholm Syndrome" where the victim actually feels sorry for his or her attacker.




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