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Poland's Economy Is Booming! The EU's Success Story?


Peter Cracow
25 Apr 2012 #61
According to this source, Poland is chosen by foreign investors mainly because it offers cheap, educated labor. Maybe Adam Leszczynski has a point after all?

This is an advertisement - not a source.
You want to make me a bad Pole...
It is a simple and well known way to raise the education level. It is enough to add "high" to a school name (and of course fulfill some more or less fictional conditions) as It was done some years ago with hilarious effects. Government is proud and nation is proud of the education level, but there are a few small probles:

A gap between demands and real worth of the candidate is frequently ridiculous.
It is very difficult to find somebody with demand - but unfashionate - knowledge.
Polish educational system doesn't create proffesionals, just gives more or less teoretical base.
Polish educational system tends to create somewhat fiction reality and it is though to turn to a real live.
Polish business haven't created any decent internal educational system for new employees.
Polish business is divided to tycoons needed a cheap cannon fodder and plankton needed good educated specialists.
And so on, so on...
So, if you are too wishful or not enough specialized to be employed close to home, the best option is to find a better employment and living conditions elsewhere, as young people do. Good for them!

Adam Leszczynski describes it in infantile, biased and dramatic manner.
TheOther 5 | 3,886
26 Apr 2012 #62
This is an advertisement - not a source

So what is the Ministry of Treasury of the Republic of Poland saying? "Invest in Poland - we can provide cheap slaves with a university degree"? It is quite obvious that the Polish government wants to attract investors based on the fact that there are plenty of highly skilled workers for comparatively low wages readily available. What do you think will happen when the foreign investors find another place that can provide the same educated workforce, but for less money? Ask the Irish about Dell, and you'll have the answer.

It is enough to add "high" to a school name (and of course fulfill some more or less fictional conditions) as It was done some years ago with hilarious effects. Government is proud and nation is proud of the education level...

Very interesting. To be blunt: does that mean that the Polish government cheated and lied to bring investors into the country? Is the level of education in Poland much lower than the government claims? Pawian, can you comment on this, please?
milky 13 | 1,657
26 Apr 2012 #63
Is the level of education in Poland much lower than the government claims? Pawian, can you comment on this, please?

Excellent post. Nothing as annoying as hearing all this crap about Poland booming; blatant propaganda by the industrialist, and a blatant lie. How could an EU country be booming with a minimum wage of 2 euros an hour. Millions of Poles are all over Ireland , UK , Germany, Netherlands,USA etc etc. Why would this be if the country was booming??
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
26 Apr 2012 #64
When I go into electrical shops, always seem fairly empty. Vast, huge warehouse shops, barely 10 customers walking around. Are customers buying online, I wonder.

Quite rare that sales staff are busy with anyone buying anything, except perhaps a memory stick or mobile phone.

So I have no idea how they keep open, unless they are jumping joints on Saturdays.

The only shop that seems noticably busier here, is Tesco. Compared to last year, more customers. (Possibly as a result of the spend 100zl and get a 10zl voucher deal that I think has ended now.)
macyst 2 | 11
26 Apr 2012 #65
The objective is to make western countries converge with the east. So poland will continue to improve and the west continue to degrade.
El Gordo
26 Apr 2012 #66
Nothing as annoying as hearing all this crap about Poland booming

Stop that nonsense about Polish economy. I have had enough of that bulshyt.

You are either stupid (on offence) or living in a bubble dude.I would be the first one to say that Poland is booming if it really was but it's not.And it won't be until the Poles overthrow this crooked system.I just came back from my THIRD(!) visit in Urząd Miasta[/i where I am trying to get [i]zameldowanie] and dowód osobisty and didn't get done anything because the cvnt behind the desk didn't tell me yesterday that I have to come with the owner of the aparament and akt własności (sic!).What ******* else may I need there, a sworn affidavit from Guatemalan government that I don't own property there?Get the **** out of here!To get this **** done in the US you need 2 letters adressed to you with the adress you are giving them.Now,do you expect me to pay a single PLN in taxes to these cvnts?Taki chuj jak komin Batorego!.I am taking all my savings and getting the **** out of here to some civilized country.And I probably paid more in Belka tax than you pay PIT.Boom without me and my money.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #67
What do you think will happen when the foreign investors find another place that can provide the same educated workforce, but for less money?

And where on that planet would that be?

Excellent post. Nothing as annoying as hearing all this crap about Poland booming; blatant propaganda by the industrialist, and a blatant lie. How could an EU country be booming with a minimum wage of 2 euros an hour. Millions of Poles are all over Ireland , UK , Germany, Netherlands,USA etc etc. Why would this be if the country was booming??

Booming means the economy is having fast economic growth. It is, the level of the minimum wage is irrelevant, as is the fact that some of the population has emigrated - this can help economic growth.
TheOther 5 | 3,886
26 Apr 2012 #68
And where on that planet would that be?

China. Try to find a product over here (in the US) for example that doesn't have a "Made in China" printed on it. Almost impossible.

is irrelevant, as is the fact that some of the population has emigrated - this can help economic growth.

That millions of Poles left their country is irrelevant? I beg to differ. It helped the economy, yes, but what Poland did was in essence to get rid of a potential time bomb. Without the emigration the country would have faced (and would still face) massive unemployment, an economic downturn and maybe even civil unrest like in Spain or Greece. The Polish politicians were quite clever, but they could solve part of their problem only by moving it to other countries. Out of sight, out of mind so to say - much like the Turks did when they started to export millions of their countrymen to western Europe in the early 1960's.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
26 Apr 2012 #69
In a country as socialized as Poland is, people leaving = disaster. Her residents' paychecks is what keeps the gears turning. People leave, the country starves.

Also, Poles aren't having kids anymore which equals even more disaster.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #70
China. Try to find a product over here (in the US) [quote=FUZZYWICKETS]In a country as socialized as Poland is, people leaving = disaster. Her residents' paychecks is what keeps the gears turning. People leave, the country starves.

for example that doesn't have a "Made in China" printed on it. Almost impossible.

Wages in China are in some cases already above Poland and rising much faster.

That millions of Poles left their country is irrelevant? I beg to differ. It helped the economy, yes, but what Poland did was in essence to get rid of a potential time bomb.

You are exaggerating, even so the fact is that Polands economy is booming compared to every other country in Europe. How/why that has occurred doesn't stop it being a fact. If the 'millions' return it will provide even more economic stimulus.

Poland somehow suffered far higher unemployment and poverty without any 'bomb' exploding.

In a country as socialized as Poland is, people leaving = disaster. Her residents' paychecks is what keeps the gears turning. People leave, the country starves.

I thought you lived here? You seem to have forgotten that the USA is far more 'socialized' than Poland when it comes to unemployment. No work=no money. The people who left were unemployed and provided nothing and would have starved. Losing unemployed people is no loss to an economy, having them working abroad and remitting billions of Euro's per year is a definite gain.

As a reminder.

Poverty on the decline in Poland

The number of Poles who live below the poverty line has declined in the last six years, from 13 million to five million, according to a recent report by Eurostat, the EU's statistics agency.

Such a significant and rapid drop has not been recorded in any other country in Europe, wrote Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza, which cites the data.

wbj.pl/article-57975-poverty-on-the-decline-in-poland.html

Poland's GDP has gone up over 100% since EU ascension in 2004 (2004 = $250Billion ;2011 GDP is $531Billion)

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gd p_mktp_cd&idim=country:POL&dl=en&hl=en&q=poland+gdp+chart

In comparison, the UK GDP has risen0%since 2004 (its gone down since 2010).
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
26 Apr 2012 #71
No work=no money.

Let me tell you a story about "no work = no money" in Poland.

I worked at a language school for several years in Poland. We had a woman that worked there, head teacher of some sort, who got pregnant. She took a total of 18 months of maternity leave, full pay, full benies. She then managed to weasel her way into more maternity leave (i forget the process) and then got pregnant again. When all was said and done, she took nearly 5 consecutive years off, all due to maternity leave for having 2 children. No work = no money? Since you're comparing the two, would you care to know how maternity leave works in the USA?

Poland abuses "sick leave" like nothing I've ever seen in my life. Runny nose? Get a doctor's note and sit home with full pay for 3 weeks. Guess who's payin'. Let us not forget about 5 weeks of paid vacation right from the get go. That works out to be 1 day off for every 10 worked, which is like having every other Friday off from work.

And don't act like you can sit unemployed in the USA and get paid for it for as long as you want. Poland has a deadline, the USA does as well and it's based on how long you worked and how much you paid in.

Losing unemployed people is no loss to an economy

It most certainly is and this show's your ignorance to general economic concepts in socialized countries. Socialized countries are completely dependent on tax dollars and when less people are working, the country loses money (it's directly proportional) which is why the country's population and birth rate are absolutely critical to its survival. If you are paying to raise and educate people and keep them healthy for 20+ years only to see them leave once they reach working age, whether they are unemployed or not, it adversely affects the economy. Simple math.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #72
Socialized countries

Crazy American fantasy about the world.

Poland is twice as rich as it was eight years ago. Your crackpot ideas do not hold up to reality.

She took a total of 18 months of maternity leave, full pay, full benies. She then managed to weasel her way into more maternity leave (i forget the process) and then got pregnant again.

Good. Poland needs to build its population. As usual, you yanks like to rant on about crap while ignoring the fact that your country is going to the dogs, not because of social or health care spending but military expenditure and useless politicians.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
26 Apr 2012 #73
Poland is twice as rich as it was eight years ago.

EU cash, EU cash, foreign investment due to cheap labor, EU cash, foreign investment due to cheap labor, EU cash, EU cash.

Wait....when did Poland join the EU? Right, 8 years ago.
sascha 1 | 826
26 Apr 2012 #74
Losing unemployed people is no loss to an economy

if the ecnonomy grows, who will they employ if those without all leave and that that doesnt matter like you state??? strange logic...

the USA does as well

yes, on the back of other countries, internally transforming to a police state, ripping off its own people where one paycheck is not enough anymore....shall i go on...and regarding unemployment falsified data to satisfy the big sponsors of mr o. not so pink to me...

Crazy American fantasy about the world.

indeed
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #75
EU cash, EU cash, foreign investment due to cheap labor, EU cash, foreign investment due to cheap labor, EU cash, EU cash.

Brilliant deduction that Poland entry to the EU has boosted its economy and foreign investment. Dirty socialist money from Germany and the UK build it into a booming economy..

Much better to spend $22million dollars on a armored personnel carrier than several Km of motorway, eh?

if the ecnonomy grows, who will they employ if those without all leave and that that doesnt matter like you state??? strange logic...

They return. The majority of Polish emigrees return, if not within a few years, often by retirement - as is the case of the Polish Americans.
TheOther 5 | 3,886
26 Apr 2012 #76
Wages in China are in some cases already above Poland and rising much faster.

If that is true, what would it say about Poland?

the fact is that Polands economy is booming compared to every other country in Europe

Of course it looks like a boom when you consider the comparatively low level at which the country started. Despite, what kind of jobs are created? Highly paid positions that allow a family to survive without a second income and that generate increased tax revenue, or some minimum wage jobs (is there a minimum wage in Poland?) which only boost the bottom line of multinational corporations?

If the 'millions' return it will provide even more economic stimulus.

If there would be enough jobs in Poland, that is. Otherwise you end up with an army of unemployed people that will ruin your economy.

Such a significant and rapid drop has not been recorded in any other country in Europe, wrote Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza

Should read "...in any other country of the former East Bloc". Anything else is comparing apples and oranges.

Losing unemployed people is no loss to an economy, having them working abroad and remitting billions of Euro's per year is a definite gain.

We are talking about the "booming" economy of Poland here. Why does a booming economy have to "export" millions of people? That's not a boom in my eyes, that's a disgrace. Society invested heavily into the education of these people, why would you give that away if you don't have to?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
26 Apr 2012 #77
Brilliant deduction that Poland entry to the EU has boosted its economy and foreign investment.

isn't it?

yes, on the back of other countries

the USA pays unemployment checks to its citizens through foreign monies? explain.

internally transforming to a police state

i don't know how this relates to unemployment checks.

ripping off its own people where one paycheck is not enough anymore

Damn right. The middle class has been getting the shaft in the USA for decades. Yet.....again.....what does this have to do with the topic at hand? If you came on here just to have a USA vs. Poland match, I'm not interested.
pawian 161 | 9,971
26 Apr 2012 #78
Poland's GDP has gone up over 100% since EU ascension in 2004 (2004 = $250Billion ;2011 GDP is $531Billion)

Yes, exactly. And additional 100% since 1989 to 2004. Together 200%.

Dear guys, nobody will persuade me that Poland is not booming. I just remember the communist squalor of 1970s and 80s and comparing it with today`s sitation it is like Heaven and Hell. Or Fire and Water.

Guys who deny Poland`s prosperity are narrow-minded simpletons because they know only their better developed countries, nothing else. In result, they don`t have a broader perspective, like me and other intelligent guys here.

Certainly, El Gordo isn`t intelligent enough

as he mistakes prosperity with red tape.

Gordo, here are the proper threads for you:

Poland still developing strong economy despite red tape

Problems with Polish Bureaucracy, residency

Bureaucracy in Poland
sascha 1 | 826
26 Apr 2012 #79
i just want to show you how us reality looks like in total, cause you seem to praise ity like a cheap apple...

Damn right. The middle class has been getting the shaft in the USA for decades. Yet.....again.....what does this have to do with the topic at hand? If you came on here just to have a USA vs. Poland match, I'm not interested.

no not at all. dont praise the us knowing how much sh1t they have under the carpet, esp in social politics.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #80
Of course it looks like a boom when you consider the comparatively low level at which the country started.

Thats is the definition of growth/boom. Rising income, the starting point is irrelevant.

If there would be enough jobs in Poland, that is. Otherwise you end up with an army of unemployed people that will ruin your economy.

Obviously they will return for jobs not unemployment. As already pointed out Polish don't get any unemployment benefit so they have no effect on its economy.

Should read "...in any other country of the former East Bloc". Anything else is comparing apples and oranges.

Are you claiming that any country in the whole of Europe has had such a dramatic reduction in poverty? Its statement is 100% correct, although irrelevant.

We are talking about the "booming" economy of Poland here. Why does a booming economy have to "export" millions of people

They went to find work several years ago, the emigration has stopped and party reversed. Even abroad they are powering the Polish economy, so its nothing to worry about as they are a future source of immigration.

Dear guys, nobody will persuade me that Poland is not booming. I just remember the communist squalor of 1970s and 80s and comparing it with today`s sitation it is like Heaven and Hell. Or Fire and Water.

Polands GDP in 1990 was $69Billion, now its $530Billion. That is a stupefying rise in wealth in one generation, 670% rise.
sascha 1 | 826
26 Apr 2012 #81
That is a stupefying rise in wealth in one generation, 670% rise

maybe the numbers are correct. i dont know and dont wanna look it up, BUT every wealth esp in eu or similar organizations comes with a price...
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #82
BUT every wealth esp in eu or similar organizations comes with a price...

Freedom, happiness, travel, work, security, safety, health and a future.
sascha 1 | 826
26 Apr 2012 #83
understand what you wanna say, but just look around...the schengen zone will probably fall, the eu is in big debths, work is just in some countries like f.e. germany available, safety(from what?), health...with genetic manipulated food....ok i am maybe too negative...i simply cannot share the ethusiasm of others...
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #84
i simply cannot share the ethusiasm of others...

I have no idea where you did up the reasons to be pessimistic, you don't backup your opinions (as Fuzzywickets pointed out above when you made statements about the USA) so they simply come across as wild prejudices.
sascha 1 | 826
26 Apr 2012 #85
nothing tragic to have with you 2 tangential communication.

obviously you dont undestand or the horizon of you both is not wide enough.

thread boring and done f.m.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
26 Apr 2012 #86
A typical response from you, you hate the West, EU Nato and the USA for reasons more to do with who you are than what they have done.
sascha 1 | 826
26 Apr 2012 #87
A typical response from you

???

you hate the West

not possible. i am WEST german. :)

you hate the Nato and the USA for reasons more to do with who you are than what they have done

a) i dont 'hate' anyone or -thing. that emotion is for others reserved
b) the rest of the comment is simply bs
pawian 161 | 9,971
26 Apr 2012 #88
I have no idea where you did up the reasons to be pessimistic,

Yes, it seems that there are only two kinds of posters in this thread: optimists, like you an me, and pessimists. :):):):)
Funny.
TheOther 5 | 3,886
26 Apr 2012 #89
Thats is the definition of growth/boom. Rising income, the starting point is irrelevant.

Sure it's relevant. Take a banana republic with a GDP close to zero and bring in a huge manufacturer, and watch the GDP explode. On paper it looks like a boom (or better: economic success), but in reality it's not. The country is only being exploited, and as soon as there are better options for the corporation, the GDP will implode again and the banana republic will return to its previous state (or worse).

Not a banana republic, but look at what happened to Ireland. DELL at some point was the biggest exporter of Ireland and responsible for 2% (some say 5%) of the country's GDP.

finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10006071.shtml

Then DELL decided that production in Poland was more profitable for them, and Ireland was more or less f*cked. Or as one ex employee put it: "This is not about a company that's in trouble. This is about greed, corporate greed. They're going to Poland because apparently they can make an extra 3 percent."

tgdaily.com/business-and-law-features/40906-dell-to-make-major-pu ll-out-of-ireland-moving-to-poland
belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/business-news/dell-defects-from-r epublic-to-poland-14134855.html

This will, of course, never ever happen in Poland... :)

Obviously they will return for jobs not unemployment.

So why don't they return in masses if Poland's economy is booming as you claim?

Freedom, happiness, travel, work, security, safety, health and a future.

Rose-tinted glasses, anyone?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
26 Apr 2012 #90
China. Try to find a product over here (in the US) for example that doesn't have a "Made in China" printed on it. Almost impossible.

Funnily enough all day on the radio they've been going on and on about big deals with China investing in Poland and how great it is.

Yes, it seems that there are only two kinds of posters in this thread: optimists, like you an me, and pessimists. :):):):)
Funny.

Dear optimists and pessimists,

while you were busy arguing about the glass of water, I drank it.

Sincerely yours,
Opportunist.


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