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Die Welt-Poland and Germany are the economic driving force of Europe


PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #61
take it away from the rich and give it all to the poor

Nope, but businesses should pay employees a fair wage. Face it, people cannot live on the wages paid today.
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
16 Jan 2011 #62
Isthatu, isn't syndication some kind of worldwide conquest thing ;)

lol,Charles de gaule and the knights templer,funny stuff in the vatican and paris landmarks,that stuff? ;),aye,no,I meant the good guys in the spannish civil war type syndicalists :)

I don't agree with communist manifesto and totally negate the need for any sort of dictatorship.

Like I said,like the good,non comunist spannish republicans. The spirit of Orwel lives on. No passeran,Viva POUM! ;)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #63
Nope, but businesses should pay employees a fair wage.

You mean, like in China?

Face it, people cannot live on the wages paid today.

What do you think, how many of the 195 countries pay more than the US?
I don't know, another thing I want to learn from you.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #64
People in the US cannot worry about them. It's their governments' job to make their countries livable while US government worries about making the US livable.

Back on topic, do you think Poland and Germany would be doing so well if they were constantly fixated on how the US is doing? Is it their responsibility to worry about US citizens before worrying about their own?
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
16 Jan 2011 #65
I dont know,Im no fan of red china but it seems those who can find work are paid enough to get by and help other family members in rural areas,mind you,the state probably picks up the tab on a lot of things too.

But in general "working class" "blue collar" jobs are being realy badly hit these days,wages are so bad that in the UK for instance in most low paid jobs people still need state benifits to get by,or social housing at the least.

On my more "red" days I do see the way things are as little better than indentured labour for a lot of people and at the bottom of the heap,a mass of people only usefull as consumers,feeding back state money into buisness which then hands it back to the state....
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #66
People in the US cannot worry about them.

You are very selfish, you don't worry about others :-(

while US government worries about making the US livable.

Do you believe that the US isn't livable?

I dont know,Im no fan of red china but it seems those who can find work are paid enough to get by

I just posted it today

"An average Chinese wage of $0.57 per hour -- or $104 per month -- is about 3 percent of the average U.S."

manufacturingnews.com/news/06/0502/art1.html
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #67
You are very selfish, you don't worry about others :-(

It's up to them and some of them do a better job of it than we do.

Do you believe that the US isn't livable?

That remains to be seen...
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #68
It's up to them and some of them do a better job of it than we do.

We do? What kind of job are you doing? I'm only asking to find out if it's accidentally the same as I do.

Also who's doing a better job than us? I hope you don't mind answering my questions, I'm only trying to "learn" from you PP.

That remains to be seen...

How about at this moment?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #69
We do? What kind of job are you doing? I'm only asking to find out if it's accidentally the same as I do.

Us meaning our country and government.

How about at this moment?

You know as well as I do what things are like right now.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #70
Us meaning our country and government.

I took this possibility into my consideration and that's why I asked you, who's doing a better job than us?

You know as well as I do what things are like right now.

How are the things? Sorry PP, I'm only trying to learn from you.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #71
I took this possibility into my consideration and that's why I asked you, who's doing a better job than us?

That's irrelevant, actually :)

How are the things?

Please stop asking rhetorical questions ;)
z_darius 14 | 3,968
16 Jan 2011 #72
"An average Chinese wage of $0.57 per hour -- or $104 per month -- is about 3 percent of the average U.S."

These numbers are meaningless. China is certainly no heaven but you cannot compare wages without their context and pretend you painted a true comparison.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #73
That's irrelevant, actually :)

No it isn't if you say that others are doing a better job than us and I'm asking you who it is.
Please answer my question.

Please stop asking rhetorical question ;)

Why do you think so? You said, "You know as well as I do what things are like right now." and I told you that I don't know so please tell me about it. Are "the things" much different here than in most of other countries?

These numbers are meaningless. China is certainly no heaven but you cannot compare wages without their context and pretend you painted a true comparison.

I don't pretend anything, I'm trying to learn from you guys as you all know much more about it than I do. I've found a link that shows me rather shocking numbers and now you say it's meaningless. OK, the knowledge online is no more knowledge, I will be only learning from you guys from now on. Please teach me z_darius, tell me how's that meaningless when people in one country make way over $30K a year and in the other country, they make about $1200.00 a year? I understand that the prices are different in both countries but the difference doesn't make up for $35K or so. Like I said, I'm trying to "learn" from you so teach me z_darius.
Marek11111 9 | 816
16 Jan 2011 #74
gw:
No it isn't if you say that others are doing a better job than us and I'm asking you who it is.
Please answer my question.

Germany is doing better then U.S. and you know why -- they did not ship their manufacture base to china like U.S. they have jobs.

gw:
I just posted it today

"An average Chinese wage of $0.57 per hour -- or $104 per month -- is about 3 percent of the average U.S."

and i posted:
gw your data is from 2006
But if you make $0.57 it is 100% more then not having job and that is where the economical problem is, no jobs no recovery.

"Beijing city is to raise its minimum wage 21 per cent next year, the second such rise in barely six months, amid rising inflationary pressure and growing concern over China’s widening wealth gap"

ft.com/cms/s/0/30f7f9e0-1277-11e0-b4c8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1B82UXXFi
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #75
Germany is doing better then U.S. and you know why -- they did not ship their manufacture base to china like U.S. they have jobs.

I have many relatives and friends in Germany (daily in touch with them), it's not what they say but I'll take it for granted what you say as you are the guru on PF.

The numbers are often "lying". It's the same in Poland, the numbers look great but the people don't feel almost any progress because of it.

your data is from 2006

I bet it hasn't change that much.

Btw. Did you read the other link I posted about the problems of the Chinese economy?
Probably not as this is again just a link and not what you say.
Marek11111 9 | 816
16 Jan 2011 #76
grow up gw, how old are you like 19 living with parents never had job just grow up.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
16 Jan 2011 #77
I understand that the prices are different in both countries but the difference doesn't make up for $35K or so.

It doesn't. That's why saying that the Chinese make 3% of what Americans do is not a true picture of reality. even then, the numbers are false Chinese PPP is 16% of that in the US, not 3%.

I bet it hasn't change that much.

Chinese economy had constant growth since 2006, the US was romancing recession. A lot changed since 2006.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #78
grow up gw, how old are you like 19 living with parents never had job just grow up.

Yes, young and with a very bright future unlike you Marek11111. Actually you shouldn't be even talking about the age because you'll be even more disgusted with your miserable life when you find out that I had more on the day when I was born than you'll ever have. In any other case, I wouldn't even mention it but you're my "favorite", very exclusive poster on PF and it makes me happy to see your loser face when you read my post.

Chinese PPP is 16% of that in the US, not 3%.

still sucks

Chinese economy had constant growth since 2006, the US was romancing recession. A lot changed since 2006.

economicshelp.org/essays/problems-chinese-economic-growth.html
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,019
16 Jan 2011 #79
In the third quarter of 2010 Poland reported a 4.2 percent economic growth in comparison with the same period in 2009. “Further growth of the Polish economy is expected,” Christoph Witte, head of German Kreditversicheres Delcredere, told Die Welt.

The new economical block is rising
z_darius 14 | 3,968
16 Jan 2011 #80
Sure they have problems and nobody in their right mind would choose to live in China over the US. The point is that you cite numbers with little understanding of what they mean, and even then, you cite numbers that you pull out of your rear end.

Chinese economy grew by "measly" 8% to 10% since 2006, which in the US would be considered a boom. For the same period the US economy had some serious lows, reaching -2.63%. So while Chinese economy continued to grow, the US economy shrank and unemployment grew to about 10%. If things go well the US economy is likely to grow by some 2.5% in 2011. For the same time the Chinese economy is projected to grow at about 8 to 9% and their unemployment is at about 4 to 4.5%. Some predict that it won;t be all roses for China though, and that their growth will shrink to about 7.5%, which is 3 times better than what's expected for the US.

In conclusion... the gap is closing and your 2006 data is useless.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #81
The point is that you cite numbers with little understanding of what they mean,

That's why i have here my "experts" like you to explain it all to me.

which is 3 times better than what's expected for the US.

just a numbers and what does it mean for an average Chinese? nada, nichts, nothing.

In conclusion...

so in conclusion China sucks and the USA (despite our problems) rocks.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
16 Jan 2011 #82
just a numbers and what does it mean for an average Chinese? nada, nichts, nothing.

That means that an average Chinese will be more likely to have a job than an average American. That also means that the average American's debt will continue to increase.

so in conclusion China sucks and the USA (despite our problems) rocks.

Agreed on both counts, although I'd prefer that instead of rocking America started to work.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #83
the gap is closing

Keep in mind China has a much bigger population and the jobs are mostly not that great and pay very low wages...
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #84
That means that an average Chinese will be more likely to have a job than an average American

NOPE

6. Unemployment

It sounds a paradox that the Chinese economy can grow at 8% and yet unemployment is still a problem. The reason is that there are still many state owned enterprises which are grossly inefficient. Therefore, in the process of privatisation and modernisation many surplus workers are being made redundant. There is also a lot of unemployment (and disguised unemployment) in the agricultural sector.

economicshelp.org/essays/problems-chinese-economic-growth.html

nd the jobs are mostly not that great and pay very low wages...

Wow, I have to agree with you
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #85
The one thing you have to keep in mind, GW, is the position of the Chinese govt. No debt and collecting interest on all those loans. That can make for a powerful govt, even if the people are weak.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #86
That can make for a powerful govt, even if the people are weak.

You mean just like it did to the rest of the communist (socialist) countries like the SU and the entire eastern block?

YES, it will most likely happen one day, China will disappear in this form as it is now just like the SU and the GDR did too.

No country that treats its own people like China has a chance to survive in the long run.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
16 Jan 2011 #87
You mean just like it did to the rest of the communist (socialist) countries like the SU and the entire eastern block?

China is fundamentally different from the SU and Eastern block.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
16 Jan 2011 #88
A country that still has concentration camps for its political opponents and that enslaves its people, who have to work for a few cents an hour is very vulnerable in my eyes. Not to even mention its very vulnerable economy (see my link again).

No matter what you say, you won't convince me here. The SU was also a very powerful and a very merciless toward its opponents country and had so many Gulags (Soviet concentration camps) allover the SU and it still didn't help.
Daisy 3 | 1,225
16 Jan 2011 #89
How did people live before credit cards???? ;)

I pay my credit card off in full every month, the reason I have one is, it allows me to shop on the net, where I save money and, the silly buggers give me money back for every £ I spend, which is knocked off my bill in January, quite nice after Christmas, this year I had just under £17 knocked off my bill.

So the question is, how would the banks survive if everyone was like me?
my only debt is my mortgage
Pinching Pete - | 667
16 Jan 2011 #90
how would the banks survive if everyone was like me?

.. because, on average, most aren't like and have to pay interest or an annual fee for some cards. But yeah, credit cards can be a great tool and can save you a bundle if you're wise on how you use them.


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