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Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?


jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #181
So you are saying homosexuals are equally attracted to traditional mainline Catholicism, Islam, PiS. UKIP and the US Republican Party as to "progressive" Protestant groups, Judaeism, PO, Labour and the US Democrats?

Damn right I am.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jun 2015 #182
some high profile Polish homosexuals

Jon stated that sexuality had no influence on religious or poltical preference. We're not talking about "some" (some of somethign will always be foind to support most anything), but the general rank and file.
Harry
10 Jun 2015 #183
Jon stated that sexuality had no influence on religious or poltical preference.

There were certainly plenty of gay Nazis, and there are lots of gay Catholics.

We're not talking about "some" (some of somethign will always be foind to support most anything), but the general rank and file.

The 'general rank and file' Pole doesn't support PIS, so it's no surprise that the 'general rank and file' homosexual Pole doesn't support PIS. In much the same way, the vast majority of 'general rank and file' Poles don't meet the very necessary minimum required of Catholics by the RCC, so it's no surprise that the vast majority of 'general rank and file' homosexual Poles don't meet the very necessary minimum required of Catholics by the RCC.
jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #184
Dunno about the 'the rank and file' though not all PiS voters are straight, but very progressive indeed that a well-known (though roundly disliked by anyone with an education or who has ever visited a town other than to sell veg) political party is led by the gay Jaroslaw Kaczynski.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jun 2015 #185
lots of gay Catholics

If 1.2 - 2% of the general population is homosexual, then what % of practicing Catholics are? What about Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, Jews, Muslims?
You seem to have studied the issue, so how does this affliction (disorder, orientation, deviation, proclivity - call it what you will) play out by nationality if it does? Are there genetic differences based on ethnicity?
jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #186
affliction (disorder, orientation, deviation, proclivity

The only "affliction, disorder, deviation, proclivity" relevant to this thread is bigotry. If you mean homosexuality (which seems to occupy so much of your mind), it is none of those.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jun 2015 #187
If you mean homosexuality

That's what the thread is about, innit? You haven't replied as to whether the 1.2-2% average appears in every community, dneomiantion, political party, etc. That was the original question. Saying asininely as one of your mates did that "there are many gay Catholics" simply skirts the issue. But you have to support one another, don't you?
jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #188
Again paranoia and abuse, since you have so little to say, even though it's your favourite subject. Your mysterious 1 or 2% figures are imprecise and in any case I doubt there are figures to back up the information you crave.
Harry
10 Jun 2015 #189
If 1.2 - 2% of the general population is homosexual, then what % of practicing Catholics are?

Why not ask the Pope? He is the one who has spoken about a "gay lobby" in the curia. Not sure if he'd have data specific to Poland though.
tictactoe
10 Jun 2015 #190
1 Corinthians 6:9-11English Standard Version (ESV)

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Polsyr 6 | 769
10 Jun 2015 #191
Well your "God" can keep his kingdom out of Poland, we are perfectly happy with our LGBT citizens and do not plan on trading them for hypothetical spots in your magic kingdom.
Atch 17 | 2,915
10 Jun 2015 #192
Corinthians 6:9-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Is that the Catholic version?? As Catholics we are not supposed to read other versions because the translations are not reliable. And we're not supposed to interpret the Bible ourselves in case we get it wrong. You're supposed to consult a 'scholarly churchman' ie a well educated priest of one of the more intellectual orders. Anyway as far as I'm concerned if Jesus didn't say it I'm not interested.
jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #193
Is that the Catholic version?? As Catholics we are not supposed to read other versions because the translations are not reliable.

No it isn't. Though quite a few more versions are approved than used to be.

You're supposed to consult a 'scholarly churchman' ie a well educated priest of one of the more intellectual orders.

Plus a 'religious mature'.

Anyway as far as I'm concerned if Jesus didn't say it I'm not interested.

Spot on. And indeed he never once mentioned the subject as far as we know.
tictactoe
10 Jun 2015 #194
Were you there when Jesus spoke, were any of us?. No!, so you don't know.

Your gonna burn in hell, but at least you can have sex with your friends bf and lie and say you didn't, and get drunk.

Ain't so bad.
jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #195
Too late to edit, but elsewhere here today someone said that the Poles are at heart anarchists - they certainly don't tow the Vatican line nor do they swallow automatically what churchmen, the media and politicians say. And yes, there is respect for people's rights. There are cranks and other assorted nutcases, however Polish law is very effective at dealing with homophobia.

Were you there when Jesus spoke, were any of us?. No!, so you don't know.

Others were, they wrote it down. Christians accept this, quite literally, as Gospel. He mentioned so much else. But not this. Polish law however is secular, and the Human Rights of all citizens and residents are guaranteed by law. Additionally, Poland is voluntarily subject to the European Court of Human Rights.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jun 2015 #196
Polish law however is secular

And Poland's supreme legal criterion is the Polish constitution which defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Until that is changed (rather unlikely in the foreseeable future for lack of a constituional majority), no homo is gonna marry in Poland.
jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #197
Poland's supreme legal criterion is the Polish constitution

Indeed. Which protects the Human Rights of all citizens and residents. And you may well find the chance you're so afraid of happening much more quickly than you would like.

In any case, people can just pop on a Ryanair and marry elsewhere - as we do.

BTW, Pol3, you still haven't given even one example of your 'LGBT agitation teams descending on kindergartens' and teaching 'mutual masturbation' to 4-6 year olds. Why? Because you were lying, simple as that.
Harry
10 Jun 2015 #198
And Poland's supreme legal criterion is the Polish constitution which defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

Unlike the laws of a certain organisation which is more than happy for marriage to be between a man and a child.

no homo is gonna marry in Poland.

The test is going to come when a same-sex couple take Poland to court in order to have their marriage elsewhere in the EU recognised as valid in Poland. Poland has already tried to claim that marriages performed elsewhere in the EU were not valid (interestingly enough Poland was objecting in those cases to marriages which are perfectly OK under the laws of a certain organisation): Poland lost then.
jon357 63 | 14,254
10 Jun 2015 #199
Doubtless the lawyers are sniffing the scent of money already. Indeed I know for a fact they are....
Polsyr 6 | 769
15 Jun 2015 #200
More on this subject: thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/210187,Thousands-attend-Warsaw-gayrights-march
Thousands have attended. And they were protected by police.
Levi 12 | 450
15 Jun 2015 #201
"@englishbird, just because we cannot understand someone's behaviour it doesn't mean we should be rude or jump to conclusions "

Should the same be applied to pedophiles? Like... we should understand pedophiles instead of condenm them?
Harry
15 Jun 2015 #202
Thousands have attended. And they were protected by police.

Bit of a sad comment the such a heavy police protection was needed. But I suppose those crippled by hatred are noted for using violence.

Good to see that the Pride Parade went past the rainbow on pl Hipstera this year. Given that the bigots have decided that it's supposed to be in support of LGBT matters (personally I see a rainbow and I think of renewal, of sunshine after a storm, but them I'm not obsessed with thoughts about homosexual sex) and keep burning it for that, it's only right that those who stand up for equal rights express their support for the rainbow and its right not to be burned down.

That reminds me, a couple of days ago I was sent an article by a hilariously out-of-touch American hack about the most recent time that rainbow was burned down. According to that failed-stringer "the square is patrolled round the clock by riot police with attack dogs"!!! I nearly wet myself laughing at that one. I'll see if I can find the link in my history and share it here if you'd like to read it too.
jon357 63 | 14,254
15 Jun 2015 #203
Bit of a sad comment the such a heavy police protection was needed

I'm not sure it was. There were 20,000 people enjoying taking part in the parade, some of whom spend a lot of time in the gym, not to mention all those female judo teachers and truck drivers - excuse the stereotypes - so nothing to fear from 30 or 40 pasty faced inadequates.

But I suppose those crippled by hatred are noted for using violence.

Sad but true. What sort of lives do those people have? What goes on in their heads? People just laugh at them.

Worth mentioning that thousands of people along the whole route, passers by on the pavement, staff and customers in shop doorways, people on the balconies of flats, football fans in town for the match wearing the national colours were waving, smiling and cheering us on.

he same sort of scum who pollute the streets of Warsaw on 11 November would doubtless come to 'defend' the bigots who tried to disrupt this year's parade

I can tell you right now which of the two events the police prefer to be on duty for.
Harry
15 Jun 2015 #204
this is pure BS! I live in Warsaw and go to that area several times a week on the average and I have NEVER seen any police "guarding" the rainbow.

To quote from the article I was sent on FB:

Over the years, it [the rainbow] has been set ablaze on numerous occasions by opponents of the country's small but vociferous pro-homosexual lobby. Warsaw's liberal Mayor Hanna Gronkiewicz Waltz has indicated she will continue spending the taxpayers' money to rebuild the rainbow whenever it gets damaged. The square is patrolled round the clock by riot police with attack dogs.

they are usually in the area in general.

There are most certainly heavily armed Police within a few hundred metres 24/7 but they are nothing to do with the rainbow (or the lesbian cafe on pl Hipstera), they are guarding the embassies.
Gosc123456
15 Jun 2015 #205
@Harry; it is true that on occasions mainly on 11.11 demos, the rainbow got partly destroyed by K. Bosak and consorts but nothing more. The rainbow was restored in May 2014 and since then it has been let alone (I must say, I'm amazed ;)). Like said, I travel through (rather than being there) area on the average a few times every week. I don't notice the police as they must be in the area, as you say, for other reasons - central area, not far from Parliament and many top embassies. PS: I'm naive so I'm not sure I have noticed, can you tell me name of that café?

@Harry: next time, I'll check re dogs;). I saw Police riot police in action several times in Warsaw (11.11 and while coal miners' and football hooligans' démos). Ah that café? I was there twice and did not realize; a few lesbian couples but mostly diners were male-female couples or groups of friends. Although no rewelacja, food is not bad (great crepes). I'll return there;)

@Harry: "completely straight during the day": since both times I was there, it was late afternoon, this could be the reason not many lesbians but for me it does not make any diffrence what people are as long as they as nice. Not far away, I like Mito café (owner and most employees are gay) - nice people and great food.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jun 2015 #206
Aside from the goody-goody, sugar-coated picture of happy gay marchers in their feathers, balloons and heavy make-up and their wonderful rainbow in Homo Square (Plac Pedała), you should realise there are also more substantive opinions on the subject, and that is how it should be in a free society:

Steve Baldwin in, "Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement," published by the Regent University Law Review.

Baldwin, the executive director of the Council for National Policy in Washington, D.C., wrote:
"It is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture without appearing harsh. However, it is time to acknowledge that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western civilization -- the nuclear family." In his report he wrote about homosexual activists' "efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement." In his view that constitutes an "unmistakable attack on the family unit."
johnny reb 18 | 3,771
15 Jun 2015 #207
The article I read said, "that the majority of the Poles were in their cathedrals praying for the few
out on the street acting like there was a circus in town all painted up with feathers and balloons talking
like little girls.
It was quite a site with people standing in their doorsways in horror and disgust. If the hackers hadn't police protection to guarantee their safety the parade no doubt would have ended much sooner to the joy of the majority of the people of Poland."

he wrote about homosexual activists' "efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement." In his view that constitutes an "unmistakable attack on the family unit."

Well of course it is since family values are a road block for the hackers to promote their ill recruiting.
jon357 63 | 14,254
15 Jun 2015 #208
The article I read said

And where did you read it - on your palm, while picking the hairs out?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Jun 2015 #209
Here are some media reports and even a photo of one of the nice doggies used to patrol Homo Circle.
Pleasant reading! Oh, I forgot -- ask some neighbour to translate it for you.

niezalezna.pl/48626-jakas-kpina-policja-przez-cala-dobe-pilnuje-zelastwa-ktore-bylo-tecza

google.pl/search?q=policja+z+psami+pilnuje+t%C4%99czy&espv=2&biw=731&bih=387&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCUQsARqFQoTCPPdl-mqksYCFeemcgodcK8AHw&dpr=1.75

patrolled round the clock by riot police with attack dogs.

In Warsaw's Redeemer Square stand the remnants of what the gay community calls a "rainbow". After it burnt down all that was left was the skeleton. That pile of scrab iron must be very precious beuuase, as our reproter noticed, it is gaurded by police round the clock. From: Niezależna.PL
jon357 63 | 14,254
15 Jun 2015 #210
In Warsaw's Redeemer Square stand the remnants of what the gay community calls a "rainbow".

What planet are you on? It's nice and shiny and not burnt at all. Pile of scrab (sic) iron, indeed!

The fictitious article (I won't quote any more Pol3, for the sake of your privacy and indeed to spare you further shame reads:

The square is patrolled round the clock by riot police with attack dogs.


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