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Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?


Gosc123456
9 Jun 2015  #151
@Polsyr: for as long as gays shall not be allowed to marry (other gays ;)), they shall be 2nd class citizens. Gay couples pay more tax than they would if they were married. When one partner is at hospital, the other one may not get info about the partner's health. When one partner dies, the surviving partner may not receive for instance "renta" from ZUS.

These also apply to ALL unmarried couples in Poland but hetero couples may get married to each other whereas gay couples cannot get married and as a result shall be discriminated against by the administration till they die.
Harry
9 Jun 2015  #152
for as long as gays shall not be allowed to marry (other gays ;)), they shall be 2nd class citizens.

Don't worry, they won't be for much longer. The people arguing today against same-sex marriage in Poland will soon look just a smart as those who a couple of decades ago railed against inter-racial marriage look today.
Gosc123456
9 Jun 2015  #153
@Harry: absolutely! The world turns but some people are slower ;). When I see that some catholic countries do have same sex marriage, I believe within 20 years, it'll be so in Poland. When the "old farts" are no longer around, the Church shall lose its power and things shall move in Poland. Young Poles learn languages, travel and they discover new ways.

Yes, maximum 20 years after all those "old farts" are no longer around and gay marriages shall become completely normal. Everything is a matter of time. Some people are slower and that's all... I personally would have never thought of countries like Ireland voting so massively in favor of gay marriage.
Polsyr 6 | 769
9 Jun 2015  #154
Gosc123456 I wish you would become a member :) your writing is too valuable to stay a random guest.

I look forward to the day Poland moves forward and joins the rest of the civilized world in offering all citizens equal rights. We still have a long way to go on women's equality, LGBT equality, tax equality (churches make shiploads of cash and pay no tax)... But we are moving forward little by little, even if there are small setbacks here and there.
Lyzko 20 | 6,342
9 Jun 2015  #155
For whatever my observations are worth, I was only in Poland once, yet have close contact with Poles as well as Polish ex-pats here in New York on a routine basis. I've observed that even the stablest demoracies are often rattled at their foundations by expression of true personal freedom, one of them, being a person's sexual preferences! Poland I believe is no different. Poland considers itself a "Republic", democracy of the Catholic faith, whose Church teachings command her citizens to act as they are ordained to. Therefore, the concepts of freedom regarding human rights for all and the doctine of Adam & Eve would appear to be gently in conflict, shall we say:-)

As an American, I can only recall too well a line from the most iconic films from the '60's, "Easy Rider" (1968). Towards the end, Dennis Hopper and Jack Nicholson are talking, at which point Hopper asks sort of non-plused, "George, why do they hate us so much?" Nicholson's character brilliantly and prophetically replies "They don't hate US, Billy Boy! They only hate what we represent. You know, when folks out their see people who are truly "free", some of 'em just can't handle it.."

Poland, America, even Italy and many so-called democracies in the world sure talk a good game about democracy, freedom and equality. Yet when it comes time to deliver, they more than not, fall dismally short!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
10 Jun 2015  #156
They only want equality and that's all.

What does the Parent A and Parent B syndrome have to do with equality? That's meddling in somebody else's affairs. Most of society want mothers and fathers, not letterised or numerical caregivers. Most people want their kids to read about other normal kids at school, not weirdo

alternative households. Let's never forget that this is a tiny minority. What right have they to impose their beliefs and values on the rest of society?

Catholics voted this way or that in a referendum as a result of high-powered harangueing and brainwashing by the LGBT lobby. But who said Catholics are infallible? Every kind of law can be passed and plebiscite held but does that alone make it right, sensible or advisable?
jon357 63 | 14,120
10 Jun 2015  #157
@Lyzko

This is the best post in this thread so far.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
10 Jun 2015  #158
Why is it that most gays are liberals that demand the rights of others ?
The liberals will never stop screaming equality.
They think the rich people should give their money to the poor so everyone is equal too.
When will they start marching down the streets of Warsaw demanding the other guys money
so they can be equal ?
Liberals = socialism and socialism destroys.
The lesbians and gays could live quietly and do their thing but they demand equality.
The white middle class heterosexual male is the most discriminated against in society today yet
you don't see them marching down the street stomping their feet demanding.
Levi 12 | 450
10 Jun 2015  #159
"According to what I have read, Femem Ukrainian organization fighting against all religions "

Hahahahhha so you are supporting a protest against "ALL" religions made in a Catholic Cathedral by naked protesters?

If it is against ALL religions, why dont they try to do the same in a mosque? There are a lot of mosques in Paris.

Oh, i know why! Cowards! They are afraid! Because political correctness is just against catholics.

"The white middle class heterosexual male is the most discriminated against in society today yet
you don't see them marching down the street stomping their feet demanding."

Very well said.
Gosc123456
10 Jun 2015  #160
@Levi: If you dared getting informed, what you don't, you would know that Femem also act in some Muslim countries, such as Marocco and Tunesia and on top of that some of them were even jailed in both countries. They protest against all religions and against all injustices towards women. Since they have settled in France (because in Ukraine not so easy ;)), almost every day there is something about them in French media (which I read every day and also in French), I can assure you that last year one of them, of Tunesian origin, spent 2 months in jail in Tunisia for her anti-muslim (you should love it ;)) position. I believe (but am not sure though) that they have an office in Tunis. For these women, all religions are to be put together as they exploit people and more especially women.

As to so called gays naked in Notre Dame cathedral, it is just like that so called Polish wife beheaded by her Muslim husband, nothing on the net. Why don't you stop inventing things out of your crazy mind?

How to "discuss" with you since not only you are extremist but also you invent things?

PS: I am no supporter of Femem but since you tell us another BS, I have to come up with the reality.

How the he... is the white hetero middle class male being discrimated? Do they have trouble to find work and to keep it, to find a place to live because of what they are???? Gays (since we talk about them) have a he... of a time to find work (outside of "typical occupations" such as hairdressers, designers...), to rent apartments. Obviously you guys do not hang aroung any gay otherwise you won't tell so much bs. Besides, gays who are not allowed to marry (to other gays :)) pay more tax when in couples than they would if they were married.

How the he...can the while herero middle class male be discriminated when people of their kind are those running (all) countries? Do you know a country ruled by non white homo lower class females?????? Maybe in Levi's crazy mind but in reality no such place has ever existed and never shall.
Levi 12 | 450
10 Jun 2015  #161
"Gays (since we talk about them) have a he... of a time to find work (outside"

Lie!!! I worked previously with an airline that operates in EU. Almost all, ALL guys that work as cabin crew are gays. And the recruiters too. And they actively prefer to hire gays as cabin crews.

Have you ever flown on airlines like Alitalia or British Airways?
Did you observe how difficult is to find a hetero cabin crew?

How is this not discrimination against heterossexuals?

"Do you know a country ruled by non white homo lower class females?????? "

You said that you read the news but apparently you are very misinformed.

I will give you one example: Dilma Roussef, the president of the 7th biggest economy of the world, is a lesbian ex-communist GUERRILA FIGHTER that is actively destroying the country that was once the biggest catholic nation of the world.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
10 Jun 2015  #162
Do they have trouble to find work

Yeah when the minorities get the first stab at the job because the work place has to have so many "minorities" to make it "equal so they can call it EEOC.

(Equal Employment Opportunity Coalition.......or in reality it stands for Eventual Elimination of Caucasians.)

Gays have a he... of a time to find work (outside of "typical occupations" such as hairdressers, designers...),

That is because most of them are very femmie and aren't capable of holding a jack hammer or other physical work that real "men" do.

gays pay more tax when in couples than they would if they were married.

ALL single people pay more taxes than married couples, it's called a choice not equality.

How the he...can the while herero middle class male be discriminated when people of their kind are those running (all) countries?

Obama is gay.

Do you know a country ruled by non white homo lower class females?

Since they only make up 1% of the worlds population what do you expect ?

Maybe in Levi's crazy mind

No, Levi is right on the money, you are the one that's blowing...........smoke ?

And where is Poland in this discussion? Guys, please stick to the topic more.
tictactoe
10 Jun 2015  #163
You need to stop being so Homophobic and xenophobic. Soon Poland will welcome some new arrivals from Africa and some are fleeing their country because of homosexual persecution. Luckily for Poland your views are becoming western.

slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/07/16/gay_in_poland_what_s_it_like.html
Gosc123456
10 Jun 2015  #164
@Levi; who cares about ONE woman and based upon all your lies, I doubt that you are telling the truth. In Iceland, they had a lesbian president who was even married to an other woman, she took with her around the word and so what? The current (male) Premier of Luxemburg even got married last month to a (male) Belgian architect and over there nobody complains because people in Luxemburg are tolerant. No matter what, these are tiny exceptions and does not prevent the fact that hereterosexual middle classe males rules the world and it's so in every country and it is absolutely normal since they are predominant.

You claim yourself a "good catholic" but in your religion, they say all creatures were created by "God" so it means that gays too were created by "God" ;) so why so much hatred? It is not normal as per medecine to have so much hatred against some other people more especially since they are completely strangers to you. What happened in you childhood that you hate gays (and others) so much? Did your father leave your mother in order to live with a man? Did your sister turn into a lesbian? Hatred is no coincidence.

Just a piece of advice, learn languages, travel, meet people and you'll see that most of them, no matter their color, their religion (or lack of), their nationality, their sexual orientation... are great and in fact closer to you that you would think.

Xenophobia, homophobia, racisme, antismetism result from ignorance.

Unfortunately with your sick mind, I bet you don't hange around people who are "different"..

It is "funny" because religious fanatics tell us that everybody is great and everybody deserves to be loved.

Hypocrit !

Gosc and everybody - please avoid personal remarks!
Marsupial - | 888
10 Jun 2015  #165
This thread.says respect for.human and.civil rights. Which I believe Poland supplies, the marriage thing is a unresolved issue in many places not just Poland. It doesn't say guarantee personal respect which.is what you are trying to imply here. Is that why you said comments may be illegal? Is this another.pr joke? If you want to.follow these laws that's good. The laws needed to be made because society at large has no respect for these.people otherwise separate laws were unnecessary. I view them as anti democratic trash forced down our throats in order to protect inferior losers. If you need.a law to protect you.from your own society this means you are not part of that society. If I was admin.i would remove you from the.forum for mentioning the word illegal in a.concussion you child.
tictactoe
10 Jun 2015  #166
express.co.uk/news/uk/583417/Boris-Johnson-demands-gay-activists-un-ban-Ukip-members-from-London-s-Gay-Pride-march

It seems gays are just as xenophobic and rasict themselves and have a lot to learn !!

I think that gay marriage should be taken away from gay people. Hopefully Polands gays are not so polarised in thier thinking as UK ones and personally I think its disgusting.
Gosc123456
10 Jun 2015  #167
@Tiptactoe: Gays just like heteros do not constitute a homogenous block;). I bet uneducated and living in rural areas gays are as just xenophobic and racist as the others.
jon357 63 | 14,120
10 Jun 2015  #168
I did like this story in the link and can very easily see it happening in Poland. A hairdresser friend (by the way a PiS supporter) has kicked out customers for the same reason:

pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/10/hairdressers-put-up-sign-to-keep-homophobes-out/
tictactoe
10 Jun 2015  #169
It just proves how rasict and xenophobic they are doesn't it. They can be proud, proud that they decided only gays who meet a certain criteria can march with them, wonder what next.
R.U.R.
10 Jun 2015  #170
The notion "nontraditional marriage" is a mockery of European logic .

Sex is part of nature and nature doesn't konow tradition .
In nature there exist normal or/and abnormal entities.

The notion "nontraditional marriage" was coined to fool people
jon357 63 | 14,120
10 Jun 2015  #171
@Tiptactoe: Gays just like heteros do not constitute a homogenous block;). I bet uneducated and living in rural areas gays are as just xenophobic and racist as the others.

Spot on. Some of the sillier posters here seem to think that everyone gay is an activist - perhaps because all they know is what they read in the media who obviously deal with those who are accessible as spokespeople - much easier to ring an activist for a quote than tramp the streets looking for Joe Bloggs.

I'm against blocking the UKIP group or any other from marching, however I can see why others are against it, given that party's behaviour. In Poland it's exactly the same - sexuality does not determine politics or general outlook on the world.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
10 Jun 2015  #172
most gays are no activists

You're probably right. In every group -- community, neighbourhood, parish, club, political grouping, etc. --there are only a handful of gung-ho activists.
How then did this 1.2-2% minority, a tiny fraction of whom are activists, manage to impose their self-serving propaganda and agenda on such wide sections of the media, academia and other opinion-makers? The more so that the agitation does not focus solely on what they perceive as theri "rights", but attacks the rest of society and its norms and values as well.

What about parents who don't want their five-year-old to be indoctrinated with stories about the cute little penguin who had two daddies?
jon357 63 | 14,120
10 Jun 2015  #173
Absolutely paranoid. Total reds under the bed stuff. And no, a kids book is not 'indoctrination', unless of course it's trying to teach kids that one way of thinking, usually a particular religion, is true and others are not.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
10 Jun 2015  #174
trying to teach kids that one way of thinking

....And nowadays in the West that one way of thinking is pro-homo, blind acceptance of the LGBT agenda as the one true leftist-libertine PC-sanctioned faith. Heretics nad non-believers are not only unwelcome but must be destroyed.
Harry
10 Jun 2015  #175
What about parents who don't want their five-year-old to be indoctrinated with stories about the cute little penguin who had two daddies?

They're more than welcome to pay for private schooling (remember that only private schools in Poland are allowed to have compulsory religious education classes, so such parents would probably want their kids to go to such schools anyway).

Personally I read all sorts of stories when I was a child, including a series which apparently featured characters with names such as 'Seaman Staines', 'Master Bates' and 'Roger the Cabinboy' (although I can't remember those). I read a story about a stepmother who tried to murder her daughter, forcing the daughter to take shelter with seven men who lived together and slept in the same bed. I read a story about a two children who were taken into the forest by their parents and abandoned there to starve to death. Those same two children later shoved an old lady into an oven, so one can understand why their parents wanted rid of them (although I never did understand why an old lady who lived alone would have such a large oven, rather than a small oven and a selection of knives). Then there was the story about a girl who was too stupid to immediately notice her grandmother had been eaten by a wolf. None of those stories are banned in Poland.

If you're willing to let children learn how to murder senior citizens, what on earth is wrong with a story that features a same-sex penguin couple? Especially given that the one about a same-sex penguin couple with a cute little baby penguin is both historically and biologically accurate, which is more than can be said for tales about grandmothers being cut alive out of wolves.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
10 Jun 2015  #176
sexuality does not determine politics or general outlook on the world.

You're right, but homosexuality does. Altersexuals prefer leftist parties, are generally opposed to Catholicism or want to make it over in their own image and likeness and will continue bashing it until they succeed..
jon357 63 | 14,120
10 Jun 2015  #177
That post, Pol3 is neither accurate nor especially coherent.

BTW, people read your rabid rants and then make their minds up based on what they see with their own eyes, from the people they meet and from their own common sense. It just makes you look a fool and reinforces their own, normal and sensible, opinion on the issues you rant about.
DominicB - | 2,663
10 Jun 2015  #178
prefer leftist parties

Jeez.... Hastert, Craig and all the other senators and representatives that offer oral sex to undercover policemen in airport men's rooms are Republicans. Never heard of a democrat doing that.

generally opposed to Catholicism

Ummmm... you are aware that the Catholic priesthood is the profession with the highest percentage of homosexuals, beating out hairdressers and interior decorators by a wide mile.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
10 Jun 2015  #179
neither accurate nor especially coherent.

So you are saying homosexuals are equally attracted to traditional mainline Catholicism, Islam, PiS. UKIP and the US Republican Party as to "progressive" Protestant groups, Judaeism, PO, Labour and the US Democrats?
Harry
10 Jun 2015  #180
So you are saying homosexuals are equally attracted to traditional mainline Catholicism, Islam, PiS.

Do you mean that homosexuals in Poland wouldn't want to support a political party which is led by a man who is very clearly one of nature's bachelors? The openly homophobic former half of the PIS leadership has been dead for years. And didn't some high profile Polish homosexuals publicly support the PIS candidate for president in the recent elections?

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