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Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?


tictactoe
1 Jun 2015 #91
Homosexuality was never illegal under Polish law, and Poland was one of the first countries to avoid punishing homosexuality in early modern era. This was formally codified in 1932, and when Poland introduced an equal age of consentfor homosexuals and heterosexuals was set at 15.Poland is one of few countries where homosexuals are allowed to donate blood.

Give Poland some credit.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
1 Jun 2015 #92
homosexuals are allowed to donate blood

It's good to know where not to go for a transfusion!
tictactoe
1 Jun 2015 #93
OMG Yeah !! it might be in the blood, you could come out of there , HOMO!!
Lolek222 - | 80
7 Jun 2015 #94
They can marry añybody they want as long as that somoeone would be of the oppsite sex, same like other citizen, there is no discriminationx
Gosc123456
7 Jun 2015 #95
@Lolek: you know very well that you don't answer the question. Contrary to you (and me), gays are not allowed in Poland to marry the person they love and it's official discrimination. As not married, gay couples pay more tax than they would if theyr were married.

I am not gay but as I am around quite a few gays in Poland (are you?), I know what problems they face (do you?).

Meet gays, talk to them and you'll find out a lot...
jon357 63 | 14,254
7 Jun 2015 #96
One interesting thing about equal marriage is that the government here have to recognise marriages contracted abroad and have put up no objection.
Gosc123456
7 Jun 2015 #97
@Jon: I don't know how and when the Polish governement shall recognize same sex marriages celebrated abroad between Poles and foreigners. I know a binational (Polish and French) gay couple married in France but marriage is not recognized in Poland.

Polish gays may marry abroad but then what? If they return to Poland, their marriage is not valid. Again, pure discrimination!
jon357 63 | 14,254
7 Jun 2015 #98
Indeed. Worth mentioning that the legal issues are very new since there are only a few people affected at the moment. They do have to recognise any lawful marriage contracted within the EU, though the two main parties show no enthusiasm for this.
Gosc123456
7 Jun 2015 #99
@Jon: yes, for the time being, very few people are concerned but there shall be more and more as more and more countries make same sex marriage legal. There are a lot of Poles for instance in UK and in Ireland where same sex marriage is legal and among them probably quite a few gays.

I hope a lot of Polish gays shall marry abroad, either foreigners or Poles and come back to Poland....

Like said, I am not gay but 1. I know quite a few gays and 2. I believe in EQUALITY and as a result I refuse discrimination (now towards gays, and tomorrow towards whom?).

Discrimination should be everybody's concern. Why should some citizens be denied rights?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
7 Jun 2015 #100
tomorrow towards whom?

Discrimiantion towards married hetero couples and heteros in general is already here. That's already a problem in the States. In many places school books cannot show a happy hetero family of married parents and their naturally born children. And it won't end there. They won't be happy until the turn everything on its head: Parent A and Parent B insetad of father and mother; young primary school kids being asked if they are hetero or homo... There are more and more instances of attacks on the traditional, non-dysfunctional family, on Christianity and many other things most people hold dear. And the threat is all the gtreater since LGBT fanatics are in colluison with radical. many-hating feminists who are also opposed to the very same traditions and institutions.
Lolek222 - | 80
7 Jun 2015 #101
What discrimination gosc.. gays have the same rights like everybody else, there is no discrimination, it is very simple really and easy to understand if you want to, do you? moderated
jon357 63 | 14,254
7 Jun 2015 #102
Discrimination should be everybody's concern. Why should some citizens be denied rights?

Absolutely. Just basic decency.

As someone said recently: "Same sex marriage isn't gay privilege, it's equal rights. Privilege would be something like gay people not paying taxes. Like churches don't"
Lolek222 - | 80
7 Jun 2015 #103
That somebody doesn't know what he is talking about , changing the law and nature of things just to accommodate few people a promile of the whole needn't be called a privilege, but in fact it is something akin to it, what you are calling it is not as important as its nature. In fact you are saying that thousands of years of building social and cultural fundamentals of our civilization means nothing and any John or Harry can change them at will as long as few politicians would vote for it.
jon357 63 | 14,254
7 Jun 2015 #104
Well, you're certainly entitled to your views, however out of step they may be with the way the world turns.
Lolek222 - | 80
8 Jun 2015 #105
I'm sure in Germany circa 1934 people like you blinded by sick ideolog were saying about the same to those opposed to it.

Everybody back to the topic
jon357 63 | 14,254
8 Jun 2015 #106
That isn't a very eloquent way of putting whatever it is you're trying to say, is it. In fact that statement is largely meaningless.

Very worth mentioning that Poland, with its Centuries' old liberal tradition has at times been more progressive than most other places in the world regarding LG rights and even today, despite some of the nonsense posted on here, the situation is good and improving. Not just for the cultural and economic elite who are both thick skinned and intelligent enough not to care about what the most conservative in society think but also out in the small towns and villages. Indeed last year someone was awarded compensation by the courts from a fishwife neighbour for saying much the same as we read almost daily from Pol3 etc.

Btw, Lolek, check out Godwin's Law.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Jun 2015 #107
the way the world turns.

Well, when's the world gonna turn enough to stop disciriminating bisexual trio marriages and civil partnerships. Nobody should be discrimiantred against - you keep saying that the whole time. And what about brothers and sisters? You know - consenting adults who work, pay taxes, why should they be denied their "I do"?
jon357 63 | 14,254
8 Jun 2015 #108
Not that it's any way on topic, however there's nothing wrong with a ménage à trois if that's what people want. It certainly happens often enough anyway.

Your brother/sister thing may well appeal however there are issues with genetic disorders when people too closely related have children. Perhaps in-vitro is a solution however that question really is one for the doctors. Very off topic too.

As far as LG rights in Poland or elsewhere are concerned you've failed to notice the obvious flaw in your post. For your two examples, there's very little lobbying for the first and none at all for the second
johnny reb 18 | 3,771
8 Jun 2015 #109
not to care about what the most conservative in society think

In retrospect the most conservative in society don't care what the immoral minority think.
You keep calling it LG marriage when marriage is difined a union be between a man and woman
so therefore it can't be a marriage between Gays or Lesbaians so therefore it can't be a right.
I love my dog but I don't have the legal right to marry it. I mean were does this horse hocky stop.
The 1.5% gay in this world certainly are doing some pot and pan banging trying to convince the youth
that we must accept this kind of indecent behavior in our society. No, No we don't have to and it should
be taught to our youth as exactly what it is.........self seeking immoral pleasures done by libertines called sin.
TheOther 5 | 3,872
8 Jun 2015 #110
self seeking immoral pleasures done by libertines called sin.

:)



Lolek222 - | 80
8 Jun 2015 #111
Well, popular backed by elites idea is not always something worth pursuing, as my example proved. So, what else you have to say in a way of an argument? Those issues with same sex ? Marriage? Are in fact a cultural transplant in Poland. As you said

Poland was always more open and more liberal minded than western countries, in Britain you could have be jailed for homosexual act even in the 70s, Poland the law didn't care what an individual is doing in his bedroom. Now, in western countries the pendulum is on the on extreme in opposite direction and law makers are going batty with eagerness to please some lobbyists and few homosexuals.

Doesn't mean it is wise , needed or necessary in Poland.
Gosc123456
8 Jun 2015 #112
Not only gays in Poland are legally discriminated against but also they face a lot of discrimination when looking for work, accommodation and in all life situations. I know quite a few gays in Poland and they all face a lot of hardships in their daily lives. In most professional circles, they have to hide their homosexuality....

I bet the Polonius, Johnny, Lokek and anti equality consorts, do not know any gay and therefore have no idea what they go through in Poland.

On Saturday there shall be the Equality March in Warsaw and let's hope it it'll be peaceful.

Gays pay tax, are good citizens and all they expect is ... equality, which they do not have in Poland.

When we see the way countries such as Ireland, Portugal or Spain are moving, we may hope that Poland shall be the same in some ... 20 or 30 years.
Wulkan - | 3,251
8 Jun 2015 #113
I personally prefer guys, let's say 170-175, well built, handsome, intelligent, well groomed, educated, with charisma and a good sense of humor

Like said, I am not gay

Nothing to be ashamed of.

Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?

Partially yes but it doesn't matter LGBT people feel quite comfortable in Poland anyway. In big cities like Warsaw or Krakow the communities are quite big and they fight for their rights.
Gosc123456
8 Jun 2015 #114
@Wulkan: for sure, there is nothing to be ashamed of..
When I stress that I am not gay, it is simply to point out that I have no personal interest in supporting gay rights. I do it simply because I believe in equality (+ I know quite a few gays and I really get along with them)

PS: I am a woman, contrary to what you think ;)
jon357 63 | 14,254
8 Jun 2015 #115
in britain you could be jailed for homosexual act even in the 70s

No you couldn't, unless it was in a public place or with someone under the age of consent

On Saturday there shall be the Equality March in Warsaw and let's hope it it'll be peaceful.

Mostly bourgeois and educated straight people - the country's traditional social and cultural elite - rather than just gay people, a disproportinat number of whom work on Saturdays. Always nice to see the little old ladies waving from the balconies of their apartments.

LGBT people feel quite comfortable in Poland anyway. In big cities like Warsaw or Krakow the communities are quite big and they fight for their rights

Very true. It isn't Ciemnogrod. Even the suburban, conservative, saloon driving, Rz-reading, sherry-drinking, middle classes are unfazed by it now.
johnny reb 18 | 3,771
8 Jun 2015 #116
I bet the Polonius, Johnny, Lokek and anti equality consorts, do not know any gay and therefore have no idea what they go through in Poland.

I know of a few gay people and even have a couple of gay friends.
They keep their gay life to themselves since it is a private matter and really no one's business.
They live in peace.
Just like I don't go around telling everyone that I am "openly hedrosexual Christian" for attention.
Do I DEMAND my rights for being a persecuted Christian by the Liberals and DEMAND the laws be changed ?
But when the homosexuals march down the street flaunting for attention DEMANDING to be accepted against the laws of the land, against the laws of the church, against the laws of nature, against the culture

of the country and being they are only 1.5% of the population what do they expect.......to be accepted by society with open arms.
People who have children get to use each child for a tax credit.
Do you see people marching down DEMANDING since they have no children that they want the equal
benifits of people with children.
It's a persons choice on the life style they want to live and by making that choice understand that consequences come with choices and you have to be responsible and accountable for those choices.

When the 1.5% of Gays have kept their PRIVATE sexual preferences to themselves it seemed no problem until they wanted to "express" themselves for attention and DEMAND equal rights with their "Progressive"

thinking and demands.
Wouldn't it be nice if the people without children got the same tax break for those that didn't have any.
Wouldn't it be nice if our soldiers got paid as much as a McDonalds worker.
Wouldn't be nice if the Christians weren't being persecuted.
Wouldn't it be nice if we all had the same equal rights no matter even if we were only 1.5% ofthe population.
It would take a fairy living in a fairyland to think otherwise.
jon357 63 | 14,254
8 Jun 2015 #117
The example of your 'friends' isn't one that others need follow. If you don't like the fact that we respect LG (and other) rights here in Poland then nobody is forcing you to come here.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,609
8 Jun 2015 #118
Just like I don't go around telling everyone that I am "openly hedrosexual Christian" for attention.

I like this example! If you went round telling everyone that you are "openly heterosexual Christian", you would have most likely been caught by police and escorted to the nearest psychiatric hospital for being insane. Just like the Good Soldier Schweik of Bohemia got arrested in a little town of Austria-Hungary in 1918 for going round and shouting "Long live our dearest Emperor Franz Joseph!".

szwejk
johnny reb 18 | 3,771
8 Jun 2015 #119
If you don't like the fact that we respect LG rights

Who is "WE" jon ?
And as it has been explained to you six times now, Marriage is defined as man and woman so there is
NO RIGHT when it comes to gays getting married. It is impossible to use the word marriage in the context that you are trying to use it.

Always nice to see the little old ladies waving from the balconies of their apartments.

Oh my poor body......so elegantly worded jon.
Ah yes, the two that may be seen so high on their anti depressants that they don't even know what they are waving for more less what day it is yet they are in total bliss.

Who knows maybe they are having flash backs to the parade when the war ended.

nobody is forcing you to come here.

Likewise, jon, nobody forced you to come to Poland either so why the mini insult ?

Just like the Good Soldier Schweik of Bohemia got arrested in a little town of Austria-Hungary in 1918 for going round and shouting "Long live our dearest Emperor Franz Joseph!".

That could have had something to do with the hashish that he had in the pipe he is holding as the look on his face verifies.
jon357 63 | 14,254
8 Jun 2015 #120
Plenty of city centre residents would surely be happy with your arrest idea for (fortunately rare and small) groups of those sinister-looking people who turn up and stand by the side of the Parada Rownosci holding placards and crosses however Poland does (to a point) allow free speech and doubtless many of them have enough experience of mental health services already.

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