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Does democratic Poland guarantee it's LGBT citizens respect for human and civil rights?


tseug
27 May 2015  #61
What exactly is it wrong and on which basis?
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
28 May 2015  #62
At last. Generally they've been trying to avoid the subject.

Yup and another subject that they avoid is Islam.
Both "subjects" want to destroy Christianity........see the connection ?
Is the title of this thread a trick question ?
To start with, "MARRIAGE" is defined in any dictionary as "a union between a man and woman." PERIOD !
So the Homo's are going to have to make up a new word for what they want to do.
This has nothing to do with respect for human or civil rights.
Wake up !
It is clearly a war on Christianity by the liberals.
You WILL accept it, you WILL respect it, you WILL guarantee us, you Will.........the typical liberal demands.
And if you oppose them they start their name calling, you are a homophobe, racist, old school.....and the rest of their worn out pet names.

Christians stand right in the way of these "progressive liberals" agenda.
Homosexuality IS NOT a civil right as bad as it is being promoted to be.
The biggest war in this world right now is a war on Christians.
Does democratic Poland guarantee........ or Does Christian Poland guarantee when it goes directly
in opposition to their beliefs.
Liberals want to eradicate Christianity and this is just another battle to do it.
Islam wants to eradicate Christianity but the liberals say you WILL love them, you WILL not talk negative towards them, you Will accept them, you WILL tolerate them, you WILL........

Starting to get the big picture of what this is all about ?
It has NOTHING to do with "marriage" or civil rights that the liberals want you to believe.
It's the Liberals (and Islams) goal to destroy Christianity.
Being Poland is a Christian country it is highly doubtful they will 'guarantee" sin anytime soon.
tictactoe
28 May 2015  #63
Heterosexual people have sinned for centuries.

Non-procreative sex is sin

Among the denominations of Christianity, there are a wide diversity of views on sex. Some are strongly influenced by the anti-pleasure teachings of Augustine and Aquinas. Catholic teaching is that procreation is the primary (but not only) purpose of sex. This rules out oral, anal r any other sexual act that does not have the possibility of procreation.

"Each and every sexual act in a marriage needs to be open to the possibility of conceiving a child.

Catholic teaching still maintains its position that it is sinful. Pope Francis described not having children as a selfish act.Many other Christian leaders are content to focus on fighting against fornication and do not concern themselves with non-procreative sex.
oldenglishbird
28 May 2015  #64
Johnny 98.5 per cent of men, gay or straight, are not stinking inconsiderate slobs.
TheOther 5 | 3,643
28 May 2015  #65
Us real men...

You "real men" (at least the religious nutters amongst you lot) dream of the good old times back in the 18th century when women were chained to the stove, had to provide sex on demand, and were pregnant on a constant basis. Why don't you join your muslim brothers? They have similar ideas about the role of women in our society.
Marsupial - | 888
29 May 2015  #66
Curse the Irish for igniting this debate everywhere. They really have. Here in land of oz we are next for sure. They are already claiming victory saying similar laws will be passed here by end of year, they are getting ahead of themselves but they could be right. Hopefully Poland can resist!
tictactoe
29 May 2015  #67
If it does resist like anything else Pole's will be called rasicts and xenophobics just like they call everyone else opposed to things.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
29 May 2015  #68
You "real men" (at least the religious nutters amongst you lot) dream of the good old times back in the 18th century when women were chained to the stove, had to provide sex on demand, and were pregnant on a constant basis.

Where did all that come from ? Never did I mention woman here only homo's.
If you want to idolize Elton John go ahead as I will idolize Jesus Christ.
These homo's now want to adopt children and put one of the males name on the birth certificate as "Mother".
The poor kid will go to school and when ask what his mothers name is he/she will say LARRY. WTF!
LARRY ain't the mother. They will have to come up with a new name for that too just like they will marriage.
The people in Poland aren'r about to let that happen anytime soon no matter how hard you liberals
try to shove it down their throats as in YOU WILL accept it, YOU WILL love them, WILL tolerate them, YOU WILL belive as we do, YOU WILL.......in the name of liberalism !
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
29 May 2015  #69
They will have to come up with a new name for that too

They already have. I've been told that in the UK official questionnaires avoid the word father or mother and just say: Parent A and Parent B. It is still unknown at this point whether they will introduce Parent A's Day in place of stodgy, antiquated Mother's Day.
Lolek222 - | 80
30 May 2015  #70
They have the some rights as normal citizens, there is full equality.
Gosc123456
30 May 2015  #71
@Lolek: They are not equal since they are not allowed to marry, to adopt.... Gays in Poland are 2nd class citizens.
Lolek222 - | 80
30 May 2015  #72
Gosc, they can get marry like any other citizen, why would you lie about it?
Gosc123456
30 May 2015  #73
@Lolek: don't pretend, you have not understood! Gays are not allowed to marry the persons they love. Gays indeed are in Poland (like in most countries) denied the same rights as the rest of the population.

@Lolek: PS: I know several gay couples in Poland who would love to marry but they cannot because the law does not let them get married to the peole they love. Not only they are denied the right to get married but also they have to file tax as singles and therefore pay more pay tax than if they could file as a married couple.

Yes, Poland discriminate against some of their citizens and this is wrong.
Levi 12 | 450
31 May 2015  #74
All the argument about "Let give gays the basic right to marriage, it is ONLY that what they want" is actually a ridiculous scam to mask a left-wing project of power to destroy a country, just like they made in most of western world.

Let me tell you a story, a real one.

Until 9 years ago, Gay Marriage was illegal in Brazil. After protests about this basic human right, gay marriage was legalized.

So do you think that it finished that way? No..

After "conquer" the right to marry, they asked the right to adopt kids (another basic right according to them).

After adopt kids was conquered, they asked for a specific law against homophobia that could criminalize anything that was considered "against homossexuality".

They conquered that law. So after they conquer it, using the same law they obligated all crucifixes to be taken out from Public AND PRIVATE buildings (like shops) saying that christianity was homophobic.

So they conquered this. The gay movement took out all crucifixes.

Do you think that stopped there? No..

Last year they approved a law to public fund sex change surgeries. To KIDS OVER 12 YEARS OLD. As also hormonal treatment. All tax funded.

And the "gay rights" fury didnt stopped there. 2 months ago, it was approved a law that will give the right to a boy enter the wc of girls and vice-versa if he declares himself as gay. IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. After that law pass, rapes already had bren reported (HOW OBVIOUS).

Now Brazil is gone. The next step is to guarantee a minimum fixed number of gay parliamentaries. A obligated quota of gays in the congress!!

The leader of the gay congressman (Jean Wyllys) even declared that he had nothing against ISIS until he knows that they were also killing gays.

So dont say to me that the only thing that the gays want is the basic right to marriage. We all know that this WILL NOT stop there.

Now my country is gone. Completely lost.

Please Poles, dont let that happen with Poland, a country with such a glorious past and people.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
31 May 2015  #75
The problem is defining homophobia. A similar example is anti-Semitism. At times the anti-Semitic label is applied even to those who are critical of Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

Homophobia is persecution or any form of physical or verbal attack on homosexuals. But the homophobic label is often extended to anyone who disagree with the increasignly militant, inolerant and even aggressive LGBT agenda. People have lost their jobs and youngsters have received failing grades for exercising their freedom of speech by expressing views on so-called Marriage Equality not approved by the LGBT establishment.. In other words, those demanding tolerance for their orientation deny it to those who disagree with them. The torching of a pizza parlour in Indiana was an extreme example of what could be actually be called homo-terrorism.

Do same-sex couples have the right to marry? Do bisexual threesomes and incestuous couples have the right to marry? There are valid reasons why same-sex and other unconventionaĊ‚ liaisons are not referred to as marriage. Doing so in Poland would violate the constitution.
Harry
31 May 2015  #76
The problem is defining homophobia.

Not at all, to paraphrase Justice Stewart 'We know it when we read your posts'.

In other words, those demanding tolerance for their orientation deny it to those who disagree with them.

The paradox of intolerance, yawn.

The torching of a pizza parlour in Indiana was an extreme example of what could be actually be called homo-terrorism.

Yet again you talk about something that hasn't happened as you struggle with your obsession. How many times every day do you think about gay men?
Gosc123456
1 Jun 2015  #77
@Levi: giving right to marry does NOT make it compulsory but it gives ALL citizens the same rights (and duties). The gays who want to marry, get married and those who don't want to marry, don't. This is called freedom and equality, 2 concepts you don't know of.

In very catholic Ireland, a lot of voters have voted "yes" to same sex marriage for EQUALITY.

Some 70 years ago, people like you were against the Jews, in the 1960's people like you were against the Blacks, now, it's against the Gays and tomorrow you guys shall be against whom? Unhappy fanatics, such as you, need scapegoats.

Gays (I hang around a lot of them, contrary to you (what Gay would like to hang around someone like you??? ;)) just want to be treated like human beings and that's all. They don't bother you, they don't tell you how to run your life so please give them a break! Just get out of your sect and look at the world the way it is instead of imagining evil!

"Live your life and let others live theirs!"

Nobody forces you to marry a gay guy so give them a break!

To be full of hatred is not normal..... Obviously there is not much "love" in your Church ;)
tictactoe
1 Jun 2015  #78
In your defence Levi, it is not Homophobic to be against gay marriage. I know many gay couple's in the UK who are set AGAINST marriage of any kind between homosexual men and women.

Civil partnerships exists for that very reason and many couples who are gay take advantage of it.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,449
1 Jun 2015  #79
and tomorrow whose turn?

Heteros will be next. The homo lobby in collusion with the femi-fascists are already zeroing in on normal society, but that is only the beginning.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
1 Jun 2015  #80
Some 70 years ago, Jews were the scapegoats, then Blacks were, now it's the Gays' turn and tomorrow whose turn?

The difference is that the Jews and Blacks were not promoting sin as not being sin as the liberals are doing.
There is no such thing as "gay marriage".
In any dictionary of the world "marriage" is defined as a union between a man and a woman.
There is a reason for that and gays can't accomplish that reason.
Christians are saying enough of you libertines promoting sin as not being sin.
In case you haven't noticed the Liberals are at war with the Christians.
The Christians refusing to bow to the liberals dammands of YOU WILL accept the gays, YOU WILL love them, YOU WILL tolerate them, YOU WILL........

No, Christians will never tolerate promoting sin and being Poland is a Christian country what do the gays expect.
Gosc123456
1 Jun 2015  #81
@Johnny: in the past, people like your kind were saying the worst about their scapegoats, so nothing has changed. As to "sin", one has to believe there is a or more divinity(ies) and sorry, there is no scientific evidence of the existence thereof (or lack therof, as you'll say) and believing or not believing in some kind of divinity is pure personal belief and nothing real. Re what you call "sin", I am sure it does not bother you when "sin" occurs within the catholic Church. How many homosexuals, how many pédophiles among the catholic clergy?

Netherless, by being denied to get married, gay couples suffer discrimination re tax like all the other un-married couples in Poland. Why should some couples pay more tax than others simply because they are not married? This is official discrimination and undemocratic. Sorry, Poland does not treat all its citizens with fairness.
Harry
1 Jun 2015  #82
In any dictionary of the world "marriage" is defined as a union between a man and a woman.

Not so long ago one could also define marriage as a union between a man and a child. Now one cannot use that definition; well, I suppose one can still use that definition in some places, for example in your own country it is perfectly legal for a man to marry a girl aged 12 if he can persuade her parents that's a good idea. In fact, in one of your states it is legal to marry a child aged three years old if one can convince a judge that sufficient reasons exist.

The point is that definitions change. Hopefully at some point in the future one won't be able to accurately define marriage as a union between a man and a child.
Gosc123456
1 Jun 2015  #83
@Johnny: since same sex marriage is getting legal in more and more countries, it is obvious that any dictionnary in said countries shall change and adjust to reality. Dictionnaries are written by people and every year there are changes in dictionnaries.

Even in some "very catholic" countries (Ireland, Malta...) same sex marriage becomes legal so it's just a matter of time. Poland shall get it too, probably not any time soon but I bet within 20 years, gays shall be able to get married in Poland.

Those against same sex marriage were of course against Jews and Blacks having same rights as the others, against women voting .... and so what? Now, we have jews, blacks and women at the very top.

Some people are conservative because they are scarred but the earth turns and the world changes, whether they like it or not...
oldenglishbird
1 Jun 2015  #84
If the people of Ireland (and Spain?) have voted yes to gay marriage, then it is only a matter of time before other Catholic countries do the same.

When you think how much Spain has changed since the death of Franco, and how much Ireland has changed since the early 90s, .....it is only a matter of time til Poland goes the same way. Maybe the sex scandals have not appeared yet there?
Gosc123456
1 Jun 2015  #85
@Olden: sure, it's a matter of time. More and more Poles travel, learn languages, discover new ways.
Harry
1 Jun 2015  #86
If the people of Ireland (and Spain?) have voted yes to gay marriage

The people of Spain didn't actually vote in favour of same-sex marriage, they simply elected political parties which supported it (although the general population were apparently 66% in favour of same-sex marriage. I think that that is more likely to be the case in Poland than for there to be a specific referendum on the subject.
Atch 17 | 2,776
1 Jun 2015  #87
I think one has to realise that Poland never really experienced the cultural revolution of the 1960s because it was essentially a Soviet state. Whilst 'free' Europe underwent a gradual change in attitudes over the last five decades, Poland has been pitchforked into debates like gay marriage equality, that it simply isn't ready for. People keep mentioning Ireland, but Ireland's history is very different to Poland. We have been a free nation for almost a hundred years and we had a basically democratic infrastructure left in place by the British. We are culturally much more similar to Britian than to Poland and we generally follow the same trends as the UK but about ten years later.
oldenglishbird
1 Jun 2015  #88
oh right thanks for clarifying that Harry.
Spain is incredibly open to change considering that Franco's 'Grey Police' who would stop hetero couples eg holding hands in the street were in operation til 1975. Franco was a great one for 'family values' tell that to the Spanish 'red' refugees who died in Mauthausen.
Gosc123456
1 Jun 2015  #89
@Olden: don't forget about the kids removed at birth from their mothers in hospitals and sold to Franco followers! It is very common now for such children (now adults) to look for their biological parents. Yes, Franco and his catholic clique had a strange vision of "family".

If not same sex marriage yet, Spain offers abortion (and so does Portugal). Spain has become one of the most liberal societies in Europe.

Let's get back on topic to Poland.
johnny reb 16 | 3,465
1 Jun 2015  #90
Dictionnaries are written by people and every year there are changes in dictionnaries.

The meaning of words aren't changed however so the word for homo immorality will have to be created.
How about pain in the butt as what the 1.5% of them are.
AGAIN, it is an attack on Christianity and Poland is a Christian Country.
Let them scream as loud as they want to but they ain't gonna be shoving it down my throat anytime soon.

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