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Decoded talks inside Poland's president's plane are released in Internet


ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
1 Jun 2010  #1
Please find here

bi.gazeta.pl/im/2/7961/m7961942.pdf

(in Russian)

What do you think?

a translation would be nice
frd 7 | 1,399
1 Jun 2010  #2
I think that whatever experts amd gov officials will say there's gonna be a load of people being delusional about it, creating some crazy schemes and plots within their heads.

well, I made my mind anyways, I'm pretty sure that plane was knocked down by spiderman.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
1 Jun 2010  #3
I think this proves conclusively that it was human error, nothing else. They ignored warning signals and were cursing like hell when the plane hit a tree. It was human error. If it weren't such a tragic event, I would have laughed my butt off about all those idiots who claimed it was a staged accident, created by Russians. I guess it's time now for them to apologize for the grip of delusion they have kept this forum in for such a long time as it's now clear all those theories were wrong, definitively wrong.

But I don't that will happen. Instead they will come with yet another delusion like that it's manufactured or sth. Sad ppl. They should grow up and learn to accept that it was only an accident. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edit: how do I know this? Because I read a Dutch transcription in an online Dutch newspaper.

>^..^<

M-G (waiting for an apologee from the conspirators for being so dead wrong and hijacking PF for such a long time with their nonsense)
frd 7 | 1,399
1 Jun 2010  #4
But I don't that will happen. Instead they will come with yet another delusion like that it's manufactured or sth. Sad ppl. They should grow up and learn to accept that it was only an accident. Nothing more, nothing less.

It will always happen, the thing is EVEN if there was solid evidence, even if they had videos that would show who exactly is to blame there will always be blinded people who are absolutely sure that it was all montaged and forged. It's like that everywhere and during every major catastrophy...
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
1 Jun 2010  #5
Yes, unfortunately it will. Maybe they need it to keep being alive.

>^..^<

M-G (don't know)
richasis 1 | 419
1 Jun 2010  #6
M-G (waiting for an apologee from the conspirators for being so dead wrong and hijacking PF for such a long time with their nonsense)

agree or disagree, M-G is always (okay, usually) well-reasoned. Olga, are you out there? We await your response.
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
1 Jun 2010  #7
Ahem.:) Yes, Olga, where are you? And where are all the others who went along with it? It must feel terrible to waste such a long time on what turns out to be absolutely nothing but thin air.

>^..^<

M-G (ahem)
Stu 12 | 522
1 Jun 2010  #8
Edit: how do I know this? Because I read a Dutch transcription in an online Dutch newspaper.

And that was where, M-G?

Yes, Olga, where are you?

"Die zien we nooit meer terug!!" Translation: "we won't ever see her back again".
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
1 Jun 2010  #9
And that was were, M-G?

It was an article in today's Telegraaf. I normally never read that paper, but today, during dinner, I wanted some light, mostly nonsense news, but this kinda caught my eye.

For the Dutch among us:

telegraaf.nl/buitenland/6837305/__Laatste_momenten_crash_Polen__.html?p=13,1

Indeed, Olga has met a Russian guy and hardly gets out of bed, and if she does, she can hardly walk :)

>^..^<

M-G (she will give birth to ther 9th child soon)
richasis 1 | 419
1 Jun 2010  #10
Indeed, Olga has met a Russian guy and hardly gets out of bed, and if she does, she can hardly walk :)

Yes, where foreplay consists of transcribing Black Box recordings. Quite the anti-climax.

:)
dziadek 3 | 64
1 Jun 2010  #11
Thread attached on merging:
Smoleńsk Crash transcripts made public

Original transcripts:
91.210.209.188/Transkrypcja_rozmow_zalogi_samolotu_Tu-154_M.pdf

English translation:
krakowpost.com/article/2132
pawian 159 | 9,497
1 Jun 2010  #12
Experts are rather unanimous - the pilots broke major safety procedures and tried to land at any cost. They ignored warnings received from:
1. The crew of another Polish plane which had managed to land earlier in acceptable weather conditions which worsened immediately.
2. Russian air traffic controller.
3. Electronic TAWS system.

As I said before, they took the risk and lost.

Life.

Last pages of the recording are full of TAWS system warnings:

Unfortunately, when they decided to pull up, it was too late because such a heavy plane takes time to carry out such an order and in result, they crashed into a tall tree.
noreenb 7 | 557
1 Jun 2010  #13
I think that:
"I think this proves conclusively that it was human error, nothing else."
It was probably only a human error. But the error was maximized by plots of reasons, only one of them was outdated system of Polish pilots training.

Who will take responsibility for this human error?
peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 Jun 2010  #14
Whats amazing was that they were using the autopilot until six seconds before they hit the first tree. Descending at 10 meters per second they waited until the height radar said 20meters before taking over control.

The Autopilot couldn't land the aircraft becuase there was no guidance system for it there was no ILS (Instrument Landing System). Basically nobody was flying the aircraft and they couldn't see that they were flying into the ground. Controlled Flight into Terrain, a very common cause of accidents.

pprune.org/rumours-news/415657-time-re-open-polish-presiden tial-flight-thread-10.html#post5728616
Ironside 48 | 9,705
2 Jun 2010  #15
It could be staged - I mean the accident !It could be done.

However I don't think so, yet I cannot be sure :)
Can you?
wildrover 98 | 4,452
2 Jun 2010  #16
It could be staged - I mean the accident !It could be done.

Yep..easy enough...kidnap the entire Polish elite , murder them..take em to Smolensk...steal an identical aircraft , smash it up ,and scatter the bits in Katyn forest , then claim there was a tragic accident...!

It would take a bit of planning...but its possible....
Sire Brenshar 1 | 61
2 Jun 2010  #17
How terrible. Reading that gave me the chills.
Nomsense - | 38
2 Jun 2010  #18
I guess it's time now for them to apologize for the grip of delusion they have kept this forum in for such a long time as it's now clear all those theories were wrong, definitively wrong.

And what about those who claimed it was Kaczyński putting pressure on the pilots?
frd 7 | 1,399
2 Jun 2010  #19
It's still possible, there was a quote there of one of the people on board mentioning to the crew that "president hasn't decided yet", of course it might be completely out of context but it might also indicate that something dodgy was going on..
zuczek 3 | 52
2 Jun 2010  #20
Yeah it's always horrible reading the last seconds of someone's life especially when they realize it and scream or something.

Did anyone see a notation as to who was who? I assume for example 2P was the co pilot but some of them I wasn't sure of.
wildrover 98 | 4,452
2 Jun 2010  #21
they waited until the height radar said 20meters before taking over control.

At which point they were actually below the level of the runway , and flew into an upwardly sloping hill before they reached it...

They must have been well aware , or should have been , that they were dangerously close to the ground in a hilly area covered in trees , and all this in very low visability...They were taking a huge risk , and sadly paid the price for it...
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Jun 2010  #22
I'm still a bit puzzled by the rad alt readings: 100, 90, 80... With the terrain, I expected them to be less uniform.

It would make sense if the 100m reading was when they were over lowest part of the dip.
And Unknown, prezumably Błasik, paying attantion to altimeter readings... poor man probably knew they were in a mess before anyone else..
And why, for Christ's sake, were they not engaging tower more??
z_darius 14 | 3,969
2 Jun 2010  #23
In an interview I read in one of Polish paper a pilot said that TWAS warnings were inconsequential and resulted from the incompatibility of TWAS with the Russian installation.

I assume for example 2P was the co pilot but some of them I wasn't sure of.

KWS - captain
2P - 2nd pilot
B/I - onboard engineer
D - air traffic control
B/P - stewardess
Sz.T - navigator
A - unknown
SP (niezr.) - unintelligible
(nw) - non-printable/vulgar expression
TAWS - voice information from TAWS
f stop 25 | 2,513
2 Jun 2010  #24
that krakowpost transcript is incomplete. Here, Unknown (U) is watching the altitude. Nobody grabbed the controls until 20m altitude? Autopilot disconnects automatically when you move the yoke, as far as I know.

10:39:49,9 - 10:39:52,3 ATC: Approaching outer marker, on course, on glideslope.
10:39:50,2 - 10:39:58,0 Sound. F=845Hz. Outer Marker.
10:39:52,2 - 10:39:53,7 U: Outer.
10:39:54,1 - 10:39:55,0 Capt: (...)
10:39:57,1 - 10:39:59,3 U: 400 meters.
10:40:02,6 - 10:40:15,6 U: (...)
10:40:06,7 - 10:40:06,8 TAWS: TERRAIN AHEAD:
10:40:13,5 - 10:40:14,6 ATC: 4 on course, on glideslope
10:40:16,7 - 10:40:17,6 Capt: On course, on glideslope
10:40:18,6 - 10:40:20.1 U: (...)
10:40:19,6 - 10:40:21,1 Nav: 300.
10:40:22,8 - 10:40:25,6 U: (250 meters)
10:40:24,6 - 10:40:26,7 (Nav): (250).
10:40:26,6 - 10:40:27,8 ATC: 3 on course, on glideslope
10:40:29,6 - 10:40:30,3 U: (...)
10:40:31,2 - 10:40:32,4 ATC: Turn on the lights.
10:40:32,4 - 10:40:33,5 TAWS: TERRAIN AHEAD.
10:40:32,9 - 10:40:33,6 Nav: 200.
10:40:34,0 - 10:40:34,8 Capt: Turned on.
10:40:37,1 - 10:40:38,1 Nav: 150.
10:40:38,7 - 10:40:39,9 ATC: 2 on course, on glideslope
10:40:39,4 - 10:40:42,0 TAWS: TERRAIN AHEAD, TERRAIN AHEAD.
10:40:41,3 - 10:40:42,6 U: 100 meters.
10:40:42,6 - 10:40:42,7 Nav: 100.
10:40:42,6 - 10:40:44,1 TAWS: PULL UP; PULL UP.
10:40:44,5 - 10:40:46,1 TAWS: PULL UP; PULL UP.
10:40:46,6 - 10:40:49,2 TAWS: TERRAIN AHEAD, TERRAIN AHEAD.
10:40:48,7 - 10:40:49,4 Nav: 100.
10:40:49,2 - 10:40:49,6 (FO): Normal.
10:40:49,6 - 10:40:50,1 Nav: 90.
10:40:49,8 - 10:40:51,3 TAWS: PULL UP; PULL UP.
10:40:50,0 - 10:40:51,3 Nav: 80.
10:40:50,5 - 10:40:51,2 FO: Go around.
10:40:51,5 - 10:40:58,0 Sound. F= 400Hz. Decision Height.
10:40:51,7 - 10:40:53,4 TAWS: PULL UP; PULL UP.
10:40:51,8 - 10:40:52,4 Nav: 60.
10:40:52,3 - 10:40:53,1 Nav: 50.
10:40:52,5 - 10:40:53,4 ATC: Horizon 101.
10:40:53,0 - 10:40:53,6 Nav: 40.
10:40:53,7 - 10:40:55,5 TAWS: PULL UP; PULL UP.
10:40:54,5 - 10:40:55,2 Nav: 30
10:40:54,7 - 10:40:56,4 ATC: Height control, horizon.
10:40:55,2 - 10:40:56,0 Nav: 20.
10:40:56,0 - 10:40:58,2 Sound. F=400 Hz. Autopilot disconnect.
10:40:56,0 - 10:40:58,1 Sound. F=800 Hz. Inner Marker.
10:40:56,6 - 10:40:57,7 Sound. F=400 Hz. Autothrottle disconnect.
10:40:56,6 - 10:40:58,2 TAWS: PULL UP; PULL UP.
10:40:58,6 - 10:41:00,2 TAWS: PULL UP; PULL UP.
10:40:59,3 - 10:41:04,6 Sound of the collision with obstacles.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 Jun 2010  #25
Well, there were people who should not have been in the cockpit involved in the flying. The President was also flying the plane - as somehow - he had a to make a decision on whether to divert.

Nobody who should be in the passenger cabin should be involved in decisions whether to divert/abort. The reason is that somebody must always be flying the aircraft; and until a few seconds (10:40:58,2) before impact, NOBODY WAS FLYING THE AIRCRAFT. The captain did not react to the go around command from the First Officer (10:40:51,2), there was obvious uncertainty about where the authority was.

In my opinion its the Presidents fault, he had the head of the airforce and his other staff walking in and out of the cockpit discussing what they were going to do, standing over the pilot and confusing the chain of command. When it came to the important decision to go around there was a delay of several seconds - which is why they are dead.

There are other issues of course - they use the wrong altimeter to determine height - ignoring the height of the airport, ignored all warnings (another chain of command issue) from the ATC, other Polish pilots and TAWS (which may have not had up to date altitude readings for this airport - however it was accurate)

The captain was young and inexperienced - would a more experienced pilot (such as the one sacked previously) have allowed such a situation? possibly not.
plk123 8 | 4,150
2 Jun 2010  #26
peterweg

well said. i agree with your conclusion too.
db1874 7 | 227
2 Jun 2010  #27
10:40:56,0 - 10:40:58,2 Sound. F=400 Hz. Autopilot disconnect.

This is the bit I don't get, they were on autopilot until 6 seconds before the crash, why had the autopilot taken them so low ? Had the altitude been programmed incorrectly ?
MediaWatch 10 | 945
2 Jun 2010  #28
Why are people taking the Russian transcripts of the Polish plane crash as the gospel truth?

Why isn't Russia giving back the black boxes to Poland after all these months?

If it was the other way around, would Russia allow another country to hold onto the black boxes and accept the transcripts made by the investigators of the other country?

I guess when people see something in PRINT, in an official document, that version of events must be true LOL
convex 20 | 3,978
2 Jun 2010  #29
Why are people taking the Russian transcripts of the Polish plane crash as the gospel truth?

I guess it's because it's a joint investigation and Polish prosecutors were there during the opening and transcription process.

Why isn't Russia giving back the black boxes to Poland after all these months?

Who's requesting the black boxes?

If it was the other way around, would Russia allow another country to hold onto the black boxes and accept the transcripts made by the investigators of the other country?

Yes. Check out any of the Aeroflot accidents that happened outside of Russian territory. There were a couple of IL-76 flights that went down as well, and were obviously investigated by the local authority.
MediaWatch 10 | 945
2 Jun 2010  #30
I guess it's because it's a joint investigation and Polish prosecutors were there during the opening and transcription process.

LOL

Yeah some joint investigation.

I think Poland is divided on this.

There have been many reports how the Russians were pretty much dominating the investigation. You have to remember that at the start of the investigation, with virtually all Poles still stunned at this whole tragedy and Russia claiming that it will have an "open investigation", the Poles weren't exactly in the mood to ask any tough questions about the investigation. Especially when, to Russia's credit, there were strong condolences and words of support coming from Russia.

I just think its not right for Russia to hold onto the black boxes.


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