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EU debate on Poland


WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
19 Jan 2016 #1
Did you watch it and if so, how do you think it went? If you didn't see it but have caught up in the media as to what went on, feel free to comment as well of course.

Poland: MEPs debate rule of law issues with Prime Minister Szydło

The European Commission's decision to start a dialogue with Polish authorities on the rule of law and media independence in Poland was hotly debated in plenary on Tuesday, in the presence of Polish Prime Minister Beata Szydło. While some political group leaders criticised her government for disregarding democratic checks and balances, others agreed with Ms Szydło's contention that it had not breached the rule of law in Poland.

europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20160114IPR09899/Poland-MEPs-debate-rule-of-law-issues-with-Prime-Minister-Szyd%C5%82o
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Jan 2016 #2
Merged: PM Szydło holds her ground in Strasbourg

Addressing the European Palriament, PM Beata Szydło in a calm but resolute voice refuted the accusations against her government and described the measures as the fulfillment of her party's campaign pledges to voters. "We want the EU to understand that Poland, as a sovereign state, has the right to make internal decisions that serve the people," she explained. The prime minister reiterated Poland's commitment to the EU but added the 28-country bloc had far more important problems than Polish politics to deal with to mention only the refugee crisis.

Far from an inquisition with Poland in the hot seat, the session turned into a spirited debate. Speakers representing the Polish anti-government Civic Platform party did criticize PiS' behavior, but many European Parliamentarians from different countries supported Szydło's position. Quite a few attacked the EU for meddling in Poland's' internal affairs and pointed out some of the bloc's other failures and shortcomings.
Crow 152 | 9,747
19 Jan 2016 #3
My congrats to PM Beata Szydło.

Deep respect
InPolska 11 | 1,821
20 Jan 2016 #4
"deep respect" for what? To continue exploiting western European taxpayers?
Crow 152 | 9,747
20 Jan 2016 #5
Please man, don`t say that. There is old Chinese proverb: ``Don`t give fish to man but learn him how to catch fish.`` What i want to tell you, in order of things it appears that Poland get something from western Europe, while in fact whole EU system functioning having in mind strategic interests of western Europe. Or, if you want, you can take in account historical aspect, where is well known that is Poland traditionally looted and exploited by western Europeans.

Now when Poland seek for more independence and deflect from blind obeying to western Europe, there is no need for hostility on Poland. Poland isn`t enemy but still can be valuable economic partner and reliable friend.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
20 Jan 2016 #6
what independence? Poland lives off welfare and now is scarred to lose benefits for Polish migrants in UK. Being independent means to be able to manage by oneself ;). Poland is NOT independent
kpc21 1 | 763
20 Jan 2016 #7
Speakers representing the Polish anti-government Civic Platform party did criticize PiS' behavior

Who exactly? Because I haven't noticed such a speaker there, although I haven't watched the whole thing (I had to leave home about 18:20 of the Polish/Central-European time), but what I have heard was that there was there, basically, nobody from PO

For the most of the time Szydło was talking like in an election campaign. First that it's bad to the Poles in Poland, that they are poor, that they earn not much, and then, later, that Poland is one of the best economies in the EU... So is it bad or good in Poland then?

If you are talking that it has been happening bad in Poland while criticising the previous government (giving arguments for your "good changes") and then that is has been happening good while describing the economical situation (after 3 months of ruling, when the only introduced changes are the political ones, and when some factors show that it could get worse, not better), nobody will trust you. Sorry. Not if you are changing your opinion from minute to minute.

Please man, don`t say that. There is old Chinese proverb: ``Don`t give fish to man but learn him how to catch fish.``

Which is now the problem of the whole EU, and Poland is going exactly in this direction...

Poland is NOT independent

Is any European country, except for Norway, Switzerland and, maybe, Turkey (if you consider it European), independent?

In terms of the EU, look that this "lack of independence" shows up in what the countries are doing to solve the immigrants problem. The debate in Strasbourg just before the one about Poland. It turns out that there are decisions in Strasbourg taken, but... no country makes them come into force (which leads to the problem being still unsolved). And the EU has no measure to force them to do it. Does it mean that being a member of the EU makes the country less independent?
InPolska 11 | 1,821
20 Jan 2016 #8
@kpc: I'm talking about financially! Check official figures re what Poland pays and what Poland gets and you'll see that Poland is the No.1 fund récipient. Without EU's money, no new roads, no metro, no modern buses/trams, no computers in schools, no modern equipment in hospitals, etc... etc ... Have you seen Poland PRIOR to 2004? I doubt it. Poland should not spit into the EU soup. Morover, nobody has forced Poland to become a member. Without Poland in the EU, EU would save a lot of money. Nobody but Poland keeps Poland in the EU!
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
20 Jan 2016 #9
Without Poland in the EU, EU would save a lot of money.

You are only half-right in this case. The EU has broadened its internal market considerably through the accession of the new members. It's a two-way street, you know.

Plus, there are also substantial capital out-flows from Poland to the EU, but they are not taken into account.in your reasoning.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
20 Jan 2016 #10
once more, Poland shall always do as being told as too weak to "dictate" their whims ;). Kopacz has accepted to take in 7,000 migrants to begin with (first 100 of whom to arrive in Poland in late March 2016 -I'm going to laugh at Polish reaction ;););) ) for obvious fear to have (some of) EU money taken away. As Americans say "money talks" (.... ).
G (undercover)
20 Jan 2016 #11
once more, Poland shall always do as being told

Or else mighty frog empire will get mad :)))) Creature, likely before you kick the bucket, you will see your "west" being burnt down by wild tribes and we will be still here, mercifully accepting some of the white refugees that don't want to be culturally enriched anymore...
nothanks - | 640
20 Jan 2016 #12
^ hahah well said. Countdown to the next Western terrorist attack
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
20 Jan 2016 #13
once more, Poland shall always do as being told as too weak to "dictate" their whims ;)

Once more, I shall remind you how France was once thrown out of Algeria even if Algeria was too week to "dictate" their whims.

You seem to be a true little French colonialist and that is why you are unable to understand the modern world.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
20 Jan 2016 #14
wow! What's the comparison between a war for independence and an economic union whose members join freely???? Well, I know that rednecks in the US have a weird vision of the world ;)
G (undercover)
20 Jan 2016 #15
What's the comparison between a war for independence and an economic slavery

Both are quite similar. Besides, the latter will likely turn into shooting war at some point.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
20 Jan 2016 #16
Well, I know that rednecks in the US have a weird vision of the world ;)

World didnt exist before 300 years ago ;)
Its a nice fairy tale for Poland to dictate terms to rest of the world. I get it, its escapism in a way for some people. Poland can offer its central eastern location and relative cheap labour and in return getting huge funding and a massive export market on favourable terms in the EU.
kpc21 1 | 763
20 Jan 2016 #17
Plus, there are also substantial capital out-flows from Poland to the EU, but they are not taken into account.in your reasoning.

Mention them. I believe there are some, but it's usually easier to convince someone using examples of facts than just statements like "Tusk lies" or "Kaczyński lies". Even though I have a feeling that this strategy doesn't really work on the PiS supporters :-)

Its a nice fairy tale for Poland to dictate terms to rest of the world.

I like this way of discussing, that means giving arguments. Making statements without showing any proof is what PiS supporters usually do. And the problem is that such propaganda still works on such people. Giving arguments in the discussion is a simple way to get stronger from them.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jan 2016 #18
Mention them

Do we really know? The essence of business, politics and diplomacy is never out in the open. My impression is that Poland is a net beneficiary of the EU, however the foreign concerns that have exploited Poland have extracted from Poland much more cash for themselves than what Poland gets from the EU. Whaddya think?
Crow 152 | 9,747
20 Jan 2016 #19
Poland is NOT independent

we all know that but, as you see Poles started to complaint

Without EU's money, no new roads, no metro, no modern buses/trams, no computers in schools, no modern equipment in hospitals, etc... etc ...

Let me tell you something... in my country we don`t receive EU funds (they started to give something recently in process of accession, probably just to be able to say that they giving)... So, we were destroyed by NATO bombs and pushed in Civil War thanks to western European-USA-Muslim schemes and we had to survive, to endure and to ourselves rebuild our country. Infrastructure, bridges, roads, factories, entire economical system, everything,... but we made it. Real economic miracle. All that in constant political pressure by EU and NATO, with partitioned territory, with economic sanctions and trade embargo.

What i want to tell you, that all my dear rises another question. Where is Poland`s money? How much cost EU, NATO? How much cost friendship with western Europe? How much all that cost if Poland can`t maintain itself and little Serbia can?

When we are at it, i listened today in radio in my car how Serbia was lucky and wise that failed to adopt some law on private pension insurance that was hit until recently in almost entire Europe. Anyway, economic analyst said how in entire Europe only western European banks profited on that.

Poles are wise to reconsidering relations with western Europe, i would tell you that one.

F*** EU debate on Poland! Let EU debate on debility of western European governments. All criminals after criminals. Sold their own people to the greed of few financial circles that have to profit from pumping new settlers into Europe. Disgusting.
jon357 69 | 18,457
20 Jan 2016 #20
My impression is that Poland is a net beneficiary of the EU

The largest net beneficiary.

exploited Poland

It's a single market so an irrelevance who owns what.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jan 2016 #21
rrelevance

Yes, as far as the KOD-ites and exploitative foreign banks and corporations are concerned, it's completely irrelevant where the bulk of the profits flow as long as they flow OUT OF POLAND!
jon357 69 | 18,457
20 Jan 2016 #22
it's completely irrelevant where the bulk of the profits flow

Now Po, the point of a single market is that all areas within it operate on a level playing field. None have an inherent advantage and no reason whatsoever why a business should be owned (or invested) in by an individual or company of any given nationality.

That's how single markets work, and Poland, as the largest beneficiary by far of subsidies, has done extremely well out of it.
Crow 152 | 9,747
21 Jan 2016 #23
EU debate on Poland is part of Drang Nach Osten.


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