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Corporate-linked EC attacks Poland's retail tax; govt suspends collection


OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Oct 2016 #31
create good change

Comparisons are inevitable, otherwise we'd just be dealing with unintelligible, abstract figures.
Dep. PM Mateusz Morawiekci, the saviour of Poland's national ecomomy.
recently pointed out that when everything is tallied up Poland is within the deficit margin set by the EU. By comparison, PO on more than one occasion violated that norm. Morawiecki has made it clear: whereas the previous govt catered to wealthy foreign corporations, his govt is making good changes with Poles, average families, businessmen, employees, patients and others in mind.

No govt is perfect and learning by trial and error is inevitable.
mafketis 24 | 8,870
20 Oct 2016 #32
Dep. PM Mateusz Morawiekci, the saviour of Poland's national ecomomy.

We'll see how much of a savior he is by the state of Polish economy after a couple of years of his stewardship, not by slogans invented by loyalists....
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Oct 2016 #33
how much of a savior he is

It is my ardent wish (and that of all people who wish Poland well) that Moraweicki turns out to be the modern Grabski. After WWI one needed a suitcase full of Polish Mark banknotes to buy a loaf of bread. After Grabski's reform which introduced the złoty Poland's currency became one of Euope's most stable.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Oct 2016 #34
nothing to say

The minute the EU's chef clients -- the filthy rich mega-corporations -- are threatened by even a tiny chink taken out of their billions, the EC spring to their defence. When an indigenous Polish business fails or is bought out by one of the foreign biggies, no-one hears a peep of complaint from the Eurocrats. That's called fairness EU style! And that's the reason Poland needs the ever-vigilant PiS to protect the country from EU excesses, abuses and machinations!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
20 Oct 2016 #35
PiS now enjoy 34%

The latest CBOS poll shows (rounded up):
PiS - 38
PO - 24
N - 7.6
Kukiz - 9
peterweg 37 | 2,321
20 Oct 2016 #36
The minute the EU's chef clients -- the filthy rich mega-corporations --edit bonkers crap

The Random Rantings of a Communist Foreigner.
Harry
20 Oct 2016 #37
excesses, abuses and machinations!

You mean things like giving millions of zloty of taxpayer money to individual members of the PiSlamic State to reward them for their loyalty and giving taxpayer-funded jobs to loyal servants of PIS for which they lack even the bare legal minimum qualifications and illegally giving Party elite taxpayer-funded jobs? No, that's no what the EU does, that's what PIS try to do for the PiSlamic State. But now the EU have foiled Chairman Kaczynski's latest vile scheme, the retail tax, he'll have to find some other way to cheat honest hard-working people out of their money.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Oct 2016 #38
the EU does,

What the EU do is to defend the mega-corporations against indiivudal sovereign states so that Eurocrat-lobbyists can line their pockets and live happily ever after.

Other than their fine-honed rhetoric and propaganda, the EU are not guided by democracy, freedom or civic values other than those that serve their bosses.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Oct 2016 #39
reward them for their loyalty

No-one did more to reward the loyalty of their stooges than POO. They tried to stack the TK with 14 of the 15 judges and "generously" allowed 1 for the entire opposition. That is what started the TK conflict in the first place!

POO also filled the administration with therri own flunkies which incidentally is something all parties tend to do. You, HB, are pretending that only the pro-Polish good-change party choose reliable and competent appointees.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Oct 2016 #40
honest hard-working

You mean, of course, the honest, hard-working, civic-minded and altruistic corporations which exist primarily to benefit mankind and gladly forgo a huge chunk of their profits to protect the environment, ensure equitable prosperity and promote the highest civic values. NOT!
mafketis 24 | 8,870
21 Oct 2016 #41
They tried to stack the TK with 14 of the 15 judges and "generously" allowed 1 for the entire opposition

This is a remnant of their long time in office. I do agree that they shouldn't have appointed the last two judges. I think they did that to sucker JK into a losing fight underestimating just how sociopathic and power hungry he was and is. I don't think they realized that JK would simply junk the constitution and overthrow the rule of law in favor of rule by Kaczyński...

gladly forgo a huge chunk of their profits

Almost no corporations have "huge" profits. Most companies run on very small profit margins, taking that away from them is killing the golden goose.

But, you can take JK out of communism, but you can't take the communism out of JK.....
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Oct 2016 #42
on very small profit

No matter how you slice it, you are amongst the PF-ers (others include Hairy B, Smurf, lower-case jon, the late Delfodupa, etc.) who wish Poland ill and are heartened by every setback she experiences.

**EU directives or national legislation favouring the multinational biggies is good, that supporting native industry is bad;
**In any Poland v someone else (France, Germany, Jewry, Muslims, EU or other outsider), the Pole-bashers tend to favour the non-Polish side;
**It's good Poland's car industry has been taken over by foreign firms, because the Polonaise was a crappy car;
**Every attempt by the government to right the wrongs of the past is publicly attacked, criticised and derided in the hope that foreign circles get involved in the country's internal affairs;

**Due to be introduced is a much belated plan to remove commie-era Gestapo (SB) and militia from decision-making posts in law enforcement; non-one on PF has yet raised the topic but the above-mentioned Pole-bashers and their ilk can be expected to spring to the defence of the "poor" mistreated red Gestapo and PRL cops who have enjoyed perk and privileges for "only" 26 years while the victims they only beat, tortured and harassed (rather than killing) have been barely scraping by; let's see which Pole-basher is first to shed tears over the poor, maligned SB and MO!

Many more examples could be cited, but these suffice to define who Poland's friends and foes are.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Oct 2016 #43
is killing the golden goose

So in other words Poland is doomed to be eternally ruled and dominated by huge foreign corporations and should reconcile herself to being merely a provider of cheap manpower and exporter of fruit, veggies and raw materials.
mafketis 24 | 8,870
21 Oct 2016 #44
So in other words Poland is doomed to be eternally ruled and dominated by huge foreign corporations

What I just said about JK? Goes double for you.....

They could take you of the PRL, but...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Oct 2016 #45
PRL

So favouring Poland is being PRL. Then what is favouring anybody but Poland?
NSDAP?
Rather than cogent arguments you obviously prefer to reduce things ad absurdam. That is thre knee-jerk reaction of all those who lack a well-considered riposte.
peterweg 37 | 2,321
21 Oct 2016 #46
You don't understand that what you are saying is communist. and why communist is fundamentally wrong. Especially for Poland.

How long will it take to explain it to you?
Ironside 49 | 10,626
21 Oct 2016 #47
You don't understand that what you are saying is communist. and why communist is fundamentally wrong

What is communist? An assumption that Polish firms in Poland should be predominantly owned by the Polish owners? That Polish capital should control at least 70% of banks and financial institutions in Poland? That large international corporations should be kept on a short leash and made to pay their taxes?

That Poland's economy should be producing high tech products, that there should be focus on research and innovation. Righty now Poland in all aspect but few appear to be colony of the EU. (or half-colony)

To change status quo an impulse is needed, political and legal changes need to be made. As well as some think-tanks, and investments in research. In Poland's circumstances that can be done only by a government.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
21 Oct 2016 #48
If large corporates or banks are not happy with the taxation structure within Poland they can quite simply move their business elsewhere, not as if the government is talking about nationalization , in fact the UK opposition {labour party ) has nationalization on it's manifesto that is communism.
mafketis 24 | 8,870
21 Oct 2016 #49
If large corporates or banks are not happy with the taxation structure within Poland they can quite simply move their business elsewhere

And they will, have you ever heard of "capital flight" it happens pretty much every single time that socialists win an election. Stop electing socialists!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
21 Oct 2016 #50
"capital flight"

You still haven't explained why Poland should be doomed to remain under the thumb of FOREIGN CAPITAL. How is that communist? Poland needs its own private entrepreneurs.
mafketis 24 | 8,870
22 Oct 2016 #51
You still haven't explained why Poland should be doomed to remain under the thumb of FOREIGN CAPITAL.

All capital now is FOREIGN CAPITAL. Name me a single country (besides maybe Japan and Korea) that is not under the thumb of FOREIGN CAPITAL.

Capital is almost entirely internationalized now and only old fogies ideologically stuck in the 1970s don't realize that.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Oct 2016 #52
Capital is almost entirely internationalized

So all countries -- USA, Germany, France, etc. -- are dominated by non-native capital to the same extent Poland is? It's not important to have native banks. In case of an armed conflict, the foreign bank of a beligerent country will serve its Polish state and individual clients as if it were a Polish-owned bank? In case of conflict it is not imprtant to have ready access to helicopter maintenance and spares within the country rather than at the other end of Europe. It makes no difference if a country mainly offers cheap manpower and industrial sites for foreign assembly work nad specialises in the export of raw mateirals and unprocessed food. That is effectively what you are saying.

If that were true, countries such as Holland, Germany, France and Britain would be tripping over one another to scrap their manufacturing industries and investing in strawberry plantations and crude steel production.

P.S. Dep. PM Morawiecki can hardly be called an "old fogy"!
mafketis 24 | 8,870
22 Oct 2016 #53
dominated by non-native capital to the same extent Poland is?

Pretty much, there's maybe a standard deviation or so between them.

In case of an armed conflict, the foreign bank of a beligerent country will serve its Polish state and individual clients as if it were a Polish-owned bank?

Capital does not want armed conflict. The more international capital dominates countries the less wars there are (swings and roudabouts).

it is not imprtant to have ready access to helicopter maintenance and spares within the country rather than at the other end of Europe

What? you wanna go to war with France? Have you been channeling crow?

If that were true, countries such as Holland, Germany, France and Britain would be tripping over one another to scrap their manufacturing industries

They mostly are

PM Morawiecki can hardly be called an "old fogy"!

Okay, "young fogy".
Harry
22 Oct 2016 #54
why communist is fundamentally wrong

You have to remember that some people did very nicely under communism, for example Chairman Kaczynski, and Po.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Oct 2016 #55
They mostly are

Yeah sure. Just heard Siemens is scrapping its manufaturing facilities and is evovlving into orchard (esp. apple and plum) production. Opel figures the Japs and Koreans are putting enough quality cars on the world market so Opel can scrub its automotive efforts and specialise in pumpkin and wicker cultivation. Germany wants to outdo Poland by offering even cheaper manpower and free assemnbly sites to foreign manufacturers. Boeing sold to aerospace business to the Japanese and the company now runs an online dating service.....
peterweg 37 | 2,321
22 Oct 2016 #56
In case of conflict it is not imprtant to have ready access to helicopter maintenance and spares within the country rather than at the other end of Europe.

The military is by definition a state enterprise, so yes this is best done in country. Thats a view held by political parties in Poland and else where.

So all countries -- USA, Germany, France, etc. -- are dominated by non-native capital to the same extent Poland is?

Yes. How do you suggest Poland replaces capital with its own money when it doesn't have any to begin with? the who reason it borrows from abroad in the first place?

The communist answer is to misunderstand capital so fundamentally that it thinks money grows on trees and can be printed like newspaper..This produces devastating socialist induced inflation,

This is why your opinions are so horrifying -your misguided belief that governments can control economies by taking control of companies and banks by placing (usually) incompetent idiots in charge.

A government has to provide the environment for Poland's success with laws and policies that encourage and enable its people to develop the economy. through their independent industry.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
22 Oct 2016 #57
Chairman Kaczynski

Shouldn't that be That Cat Kaczyński? You're going against your own silly rules.
Also doing well under communism were Balcerowicz, Kwaśniewski, Rzepliński, Mazowiecki, Wielowieyski and all the many celebrity types and retired SB colonels who support KOD.
peterweg 37 | 2,321
22 Oct 2016 #58
Just heard Siemens is scrapping its manufaturing facilities

You think a country can obtain the IP to build unique, quality products simple by wanting to?
The communist 's tried it, and the factories have all long since closed because they produced rubbish.

Building a manufacturing base is a long term evolution, success comes through care targeting and strategic planning. And lots of money, borrowed preferably..
mafketis 24 | 8,870
22 Oct 2016 #59
the Japs

You just cannot stay away from ethnic slurs, can you?

What's generally going on is that production is being outsourced to cheaper countries (Germany is kind of anomolous in that way but will have to follow suit because there soon won't be enough qualified workers in Germany itself).

Essentially the entire 20th century was one long protracted war* about the most efficient economic system (capitalism, fascism, socialism to various degrees) and multi-national capitalism wiped out all the competition. The current century is going to be about the optimal political configuration given the victory of capitalism (probably not the nation state).

*not my idea, originally proposed by Phillip Babbit I believe
dolnoslask 6 | 3,193
22 Oct 2016 #60
have you ever heard of "capital flight"

Capital flight is not much of an issue for countries who have a low level of indebtedness, Poland is ranked 31, Poland is also capable of being self sufficient when it comes to food production which counts if credit lines were ever cut.

Times in Poland would be tough for sure, but Poles have a great deal of experience when it comes to tightening their belts.

On the other hand the UK (ranked 11 and is especially at risk due to Brexit) would have riots on the streets with people looting and killing one another for food once the financial market moves away and the inevitable capital flight follows, the US is heavily dependent on the Petro Dollar, again if this changes the US would fall into chaos.

All in all Poland is at low risk from he financial markets which gives it the freedom to set its own taxes and financial regulations, without having to bow down to foreign financiers who only have their own pockets in mind.

chartsbin.com/view/38940


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