It works both ways but since we're talking about Poland, we have a choice to avoid it if we don't like it, that's all I'm saying. It's not like people are being killed in Poland for being different, right?
British senior politician compares Poland to South Africa during apartheid
WielkiPolak 54 | 988
10 Jun 2012 / #62
OK so when the last time there were any problems during national team level matches in Poland ?
I too do not remember the last time Polish fans racially abused anyone or created problems during a Poland match. In fact one of the main reasons they got to co host the Euro was because the fans were so great.
Harry
10 Jun 2012 / #63
Better for who? You see, here we go, you want it to be better according to your standards and you're not Polish, right?
Whatever happens in Poland, has to be "better" for Poles and not for you or anyone else.
Whatever happens in Poland, has to be "better" for Poles and not for you or anyone else.
Better for everybody who does not enjoy being racially abused. Of course, if you do know such people, I can certainly direct them to places which they will no doubt enjoy.
Balotelli was often racially abused in Italian league games.
As you have claimed repeatedly. Pity that you offer nothing at all to support your claim. Perhaps I should claim that you are actually a small tree growing in an orchard outside Milton Keynes and then assert that I have no need to prove my claim? How is this year's apple crop looking?
RevokeNice 15 | 1854
10 Jun 2012 / #64
Balotelli was often racially abused in Italian league games.
Juve fans hate him and sung about him even when they werent playing Inter. Eventually, the Italian FA issued a closure order for the Ultra section of their stadium, due to this.
But he is as Italian as I am i.e not at all.
Hes a Ghanaian.
EDIT In the CL semi final in 2010 he was nearly physically attacked by his own Inter fans. You will find that on YouTube!
Better for everybody who does not enjoy being racially abused.
All I can say is that I was never "racially abused" in Poland whatsoever. I had a few bar fights and got cheated on my bills here and there, that's all. OK, I do have to say that I've heard some derogatory comments about Jews every now and then but as long as no one physically abuses you, who cares, right?
Claim??? The problems are a matter of record, and whether or not there was corruption in UEFA this time, it wouldn't be a first.
Since PL and UA were so keen to host it, it is not unreasonable - even entirely appropriate, to expect that both countries might have addressed the problem during the run up to the tournament. But no. They didn't. Though some of the sillier inhabitants are whining on the Internet after the fact.
Since PL and UA were so keen to host it, it is not unreasonable - even entirely appropriate, to expect that both countries might have addressed the problem during the run up to the tournament. But no. They didn't. Though some of the sillier inhabitants are whining on the Internet after the fact.
The problems are not anywhere near the scale you would hope they would be. And any ludicrous notion that "one incident is one too many" ignores the reality that no one can control the thoughts and actions of everyone, everywhere. There will always be a tiny element in any society who will look to stir up troubles. That doesn't mean all of Poland or Ukraine are to blame if and when someone misbehaves during the games. You know this makes sense because we've already established your own unwillingness to accept responsibility for the crimes Britain has committed.
Of course Poland and Ukraine have considered safety and security measures needed during the games. However, Poland and Ukraine should not turn themselves into pervasive and intrusive police states just because you are used to Britain being one even though it is still unable to tackle its own ongoing problems of racism and related crime in the UK.
And if you think ordinary Poles or Ukrainians should be publicly tarring and feathering their own citizens or even foreigners who commit acts of hooliganism you are dreaming. There won't be any emotional dramas worthy of daytime TV just so you can be kept entertained. If any crime occurs it needs to be referred to local police and they will investigate. That's how crimes are handled.
Anyway, since you acknowledged that UEFA is corrupt then I really don't see why you should care what goes on with EURO 2012. You should just write it all off as a lost cause and go about your business elsewhere because I seriously doubt you have been writing to your MP or other public officials in Blighty to put an end to Britain's involvement in the games.
As you know there have been silly people whining on the internet and the media even before the games got started and virtually all of them have UK post codes, IP addresses or extended ties back in Britain.
WielkiPolak 54 | 988
10 Jun 2012 / #67
Exactly look on youtube. I am not going to bother providing you with links dear sir. You do not want to trust me that is up to you. If you want proof, you can find plenty on the internet. Trust me he was racially abused, not just once. A lot of Italian fans also do not want him in the Italy team.
Harry
10 Jun 2012 / #68
I am not going to bother providing you with links dear sir.
Fair enough, I suppose that it must be tricky for a small tree like you to use google.
A lot of Italian fans also do not want him in the Italy team.
I wouldn't want him in any team I supported: nothing to do with his race, just because he's an utter cock.
WielkiPolak 54 | 988
10 Jun 2012 / #69
I'm not the one desperate to find the footage so you can believe me and I can sleep at night. If you want to see, you go on youtube, or is it too difficult for you?
What is all this talk about trees by the way? Did you forget your medication today?
Back on topic [sort of]
When in Rome. Heard the saying? When people go to Poland then need to behave themselves. If I went to Saudi Arabia and got funny looks I would understand it. I would even wear what they tell me to wear. It is how they live over there and I accept that. In Poland you might get funny looks if you are foreign but if you shake up and try to fit in, you should be fine. You need to earn your place when you are 'new' somewhere. In Britain it is different since there are so many people of different races that they tend to form their own communities and it creates segregation, leading to tensions.
What is all this talk about trees by the way? Did you forget your medication today?
Back on topic [sort of]
When in Rome. Heard the saying? When people go to Poland then need to behave themselves. If I went to Saudi Arabia and got funny looks I would understand it. I would even wear what they tell me to wear. It is how they live over there and I accept that. In Poland you might get funny looks if you are foreign but if you shake up and try to fit in, you should be fine. You need to earn your place when you are 'new' somewhere. In Britain it is different since there are so many people of different races that they tend to form their own communities and it creates segregation, leading to tensions.
And what makes it so ironic is that the UK was one of the first major countries to ban slavery.
Britain never actually had slaves on its own soil... unless you include the working class and perhaps the Irish.
Fair enough, I suppose that it must be tricky for a small tree like you to use google.
or wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_football
Harry
10 Jun 2012 / #71
or wiki
I read it. It covers only the ground incidents which I've already written about.
What is all this talk about trees by the way?
I'm asserting that you are a small apple tree and using your logic that I need not provide proof to back my statement.
If Poland's politicians did actually preach to them it would be a start. The outrageous behaviour, caught on film, can't be excused at all. The worst thing however is that it hasn't been addressed at all.
What Polish politicians you have in mind ? Those you think the world of are not able to deal with anything.
This "incident" can be interpreted in many ways. One; as a response of some cracovia fans to the BBC program.
I don't think it should be addressed at all given all the international coverage already given.
Poland has many problems which should be fixed and I don't think that priority should be given to some noises allegedly being heard during training session.
In practical terms that what that would mean in your opinion a lecture ? an official statement by the government. Those people wouldn't care for those in the slightest !
Let just ignore it and talk instead about jerky reaction of the British media.
WielkiPolak 54 | 988
10 Jun 2012 / #73
Like I said, medication, take it regularly.
Using your logic that if you make a statement and someone wants proof for it, you have to provide it, otherwise they can deny it, it means I might as well not bother saying the earth is round or you're going to ask for some photos to back it up.
Using your logic that if you make a statement and someone wants proof for it, you have to provide it, otherwise they can deny it, it means I might as well not bother saying the earth is round or you're going to ask for some photos to back it up.
Past mistakes are open to discussion far more in Britain than in other countries I could mention.
Really?
guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/18/britain-destroyed-records-colonial-crimes?newsfeed=true
teflcat: Past mistakes are open to discussion far more in Britain than in other countries I could mention.
Yes, really. I refer you to your own links.
I don't think it should be addressed at all given all the international coverage already given.
So you'd rather the whole thing was ignored. Typical ostrich mentality.
Really?
Isn't it obvious that Britain did more..., is better in... , is ahead of..., and obviously is more tolerant than "other countries" :))))) ?
Basically, what we witness these days is unusual erruption of British chuvanism masqueraded as supposed fight against racism. How many British people here admit that UK has huge problems with racism ? Of course they do not have, ocassional riots are no big deal, they are civilized and sophisticated, unlike "Eastern Europeans", damn racists they :)))
welshguyinpola 23 | 463
10 Jun 2012 / #78
Some circles influenced BBC into such anti-Polish campaign. It would be interesting to know who is behind it . who pull the string? Are Putin's people provocations in Poland is connected by anyway to scaremongering campaign in Britain. Are British authorities aware of the fact ? Are they cooperating with Putin or not?
What is this Polish paranoia about the Russains. They did not kill ducky and they are not out to bring Poland down. Poland is not imprtant enough on the international scene for them to make the effort
Instead of pointing fingers at others, nations such as Britain schould take a very close look at THEMSELVES. They see themselves as some high-minded defenders of tolerance and moral standards - BASED ON WHAT? "Tolerance" based on orwellians laws of putting people to jail for several months for saying non-PC things while drunk? Suspension of the innocent until proven guilty " for hate related trials? Pretending that multi-kulti is the pinnacle of human acheivments and sweeping events such as London riots (shouldn't that be more of a problem for a country hosting Olympics than some, minor in comparison, fights with the police in Ukraine which allegedly make it unsuitable host for the Euros?)? This why do you look at the splinter in your brother's eye and not notice the beam which is in your own eye? attitude leads to understandable iritation.
If it was the Sun article it migh've gone unnoticed, but when the BBC yields to such sensantionalism, unprofessionalism and irresponsability (Read this statement from the executive director of the Jewish Community Centre of Krakow who claims his words were misinterpreted and taken out of the context: economist/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/06/ugly-spectre
Imagine in what situation all of this puts the guy and his cultural effort - an effort, which needs the support of the local community which is understandably endangered by such "documents". Is this the way to promote the Polish-Jewish dialogue or to recklessly spoil it? it raises some serious questions. The BBC during the Cold War acheived some kind of a special status in Poland and now it's a good time to put the assumption that it presents true and ubiased news into question. The issue of why even the public-funded media tends to reach the tabloid level these days is also far more interesting that the topic of hoolies in Poland.
I, for one, am ok with this recent UK's trend, after all, this may not only discourage the people of color to come as turists or professionals, which would be bad but also a thing we could live with, but also the people who would want to immigrate to Poland and the "raibow society" is the last thing we need right now, along with the "tolerance" or the "Europeans standards". It may actualy spur a discussion in Poland on what those "standards" really mean and I'm sure the majority wouldn't want to have them introduced in our country, this irritation disillusionment may actually be a blessing as the people may finally stop looking at the "respectable Western media" as if they had all the answers.
As for the hoolies, we don't need the BBC to know we have a problem. But the problem isn't racial violence, it is simply violence. Conidering the August London events, the UK unfortunately doesn't have any know-how we could use. The short-term solution seem to be better policing with financial pentalties along with the social works along with the more severe penalties for the more serious mishbehavior, and the long term, making sure that such underclass doesn't form any more (education and generally more active role of schools, zero tolerance for violence during school-age, improvement in generall economical situation, cutting the benefits on the pathological families or rather making sure that all the money gets spent on children and not their underclass parents etc.). As I have said, the UK is unable to teach us anything about this issues thus making this statements tottaly ridiculous, what next, Al-Jazeera expressing concern with woman abuse?
If it was the Sun article it migh've gone unnoticed, but when the BBC yields to such sensantionalism, unprofessionalism and irresponsability (Read this statement from the executive director of the Jewish Community Centre of Krakow who claims his words were misinterpreted and taken out of the context: economist/blogs/easternapproaches/2012/06/ugly-spectre
Imagine in what situation all of this puts the guy and his cultural effort - an effort, which needs the support of the local community which is understandably endangered by such "documents". Is this the way to promote the Polish-Jewish dialogue or to recklessly spoil it? it raises some serious questions. The BBC during the Cold War acheived some kind of a special status in Poland and now it's a good time to put the assumption that it presents true and ubiased news into question. The issue of why even the public-funded media tends to reach the tabloid level these days is also far more interesting that the topic of hoolies in Poland.
I, for one, am ok with this recent UK's trend, after all, this may not only discourage the people of color to come as turists or professionals, which would be bad but also a thing we could live with, but also the people who would want to immigrate to Poland and the "raibow society" is the last thing we need right now, along with the "tolerance" or the "Europeans standards". It may actualy spur a discussion in Poland on what those "standards" really mean and I'm sure the majority wouldn't want to have them introduced in our country, this irritation disillusionment may actually be a blessing as the people may finally stop looking at the "respectable Western media" as if they had all the answers.
As for the hoolies, we don't need the BBC to know we have a problem. But the problem isn't racial violence, it is simply violence. Conidering the August London events, the UK unfortunately doesn't have any know-how we could use. The short-term solution seem to be better policing with financial pentalties along with the social works along with the more severe penalties for the more serious mishbehavior, and the long term, making sure that such underclass doesn't form any more (education and generally more active role of schools, zero tolerance for violence during school-age, improvement in generall economical situation, cutting the benefits on the pathological families or rather making sure that all the money gets spent on children and not their underclass parents etc.). As I have said, the UK is unable to teach us anything about this issues thus making this statements tottaly ridiculous, what next, Al-Jazeera expressing concern with woman abuse?
They did not kill ducky and they are not out to bring Poland down.
well, you can't blame Poles for having their thoughts, look what happened in the past. Besides, saying that they "didn't kill ducky" is a joke, I hope you realize that. Other than Chinese no one ever killed more people that the Russians (just look at the Soviet Union).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3875
10 Jun 2012 / #81
. How many British people here admit that UK has huge problems with racism ?
one here
Instead of pointing fingers at others, nations such as Britain schould take a very close look at THEMSELVES
true.
I supposed you have to be careful not to tar the whole of Britian with the same brush and get England mixed up with Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
Each country has it's own problems and can be very different to England even in Britain.
If anything Britian has become too much of a PC nanny state and the perceived tolerance of other cultures is to make the middle class indigious population feel better about themselves as the country disappears down the pan.
Each country has it's own problems and can be very different to England even in Britain.
If anything Britian has become too much of a PC nanny state and the perceived tolerance of other cultures is to make the middle class indigious population feel better about themselves as the country disappears down the pan.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3875
11 Jun 2012 / #83
^^^^^^^^good one optimo^^
So you'd rather the whole thing was ignored. Typical ostrich mentality.
No, that is a sensible thing to do.
What would you do?
What is this Polish paranoia about the Russains. They did not kill ducky and they are not out to bring Poland down. Poland is not imprtant enough on the international scene for them to make the effort
Paranoia ? Not important enough ? Nope and nope !
You can rest assured that you are wrong on both counts. You obviously enjoy splendid isolation from reality.
:)
the perceived tolerance of other cultures is to make the middle class indigious population feel better about themselves
thats about pegged it right !
delphiandomine 86 | 17823
11 Jun 2012 / #85
But the problem isn't racial violence, it is simply violence.
I'd agree with this, actually. The amount of football-related violence in general that seems to go unpunished is unbelievable.
It's changing, but until every single act of football-related violence is punished severely, it's not going to go away.
(off topic, slightly, but there was a riot last night in Poznan)
Britain has unresolved issues with racism at every level of its society. So where are your calls to have the London Olympics boycotted? Oh, that's right, "nothing to see here." Its "ancient history."
More twisting and turning and lamely attempting to divert from the issue. Sad really, as yesterdays events show.
met.police.uk/crimefigures/datatable.php?borough=ni&period=year
met.police.uk/crimefigures/
12 months London racist crime: 8727
i always found British people extremely two faced hypocrites.....now you guys are trying to hide your hypocrisy behind some noble anti -racist cause...
the true is,all this anti polish slanders are nothing but a result of your racist chavs mentality....
those disgusting slanders coming from top British politician should be met with a firm response from our government to prevent any further racist attack on Polish nation coming from British left wing hypocrites and their Goebbels like anti polish propaganda supported by BBC.
British state is a a prime example of a extreme racist society and this is base in real facts and supported by statistic data..anyone can read this forum and you can experience yourself this disgusting racist nature of British people.
You British got the nerve to teach other a tolerance and lecture other nation on subject of tolerance which is so alien to you...
met.police.uk/crimefigures/
12 months London racist crime: 8727
i always found British people extremely two faced hypocrites.....now you guys are trying to hide your hypocrisy behind some noble anti -racist cause...
the true is,all this anti polish slanders are nothing but a result of your racist chavs mentality....
those disgusting slanders coming from top British politician should be met with a firm response from our government to prevent any further racist attack on Polish nation coming from British left wing hypocrites and their Goebbels like anti polish propaganda supported by BBC.
British state is a a prime example of a extreme racist society and this is base in real facts and supported by statistic data..anyone can read this forum and you can experience yourself this disgusting racist nature of British people.
You British got the nerve to teach other a tolerance and lecture other nation on subject of tolerance which is so alien to you...
Harry
11 Jun 2012 / #88
British state is a a prime example of a extreme racist society and this is base in real facts and supported by statistic data.
Yawn.
Has it perhaps occurred to you that the number of recorded crimes reflects the seriousness with which British society views the problem of racism and deals with the racists found in every society? Do you really think that the Polish approach of deny that there is any problem at all and doing nothing about it is more likely to lessen the effects of racism in Poland?
Insults and slanders? You mean it isn't true that black players here may face racial abuse? Events in Krakow would show you to be a liar if you did make that claim.
I've personally been in in the stand at a First division match and listened to UK fans make monkey sounds at Black players for most of the match. So as disgusting as it is there is no way this is a Polish issue. Look at our resident Spaniard, he's as racist as they come -
Cry Sebastian Vettel, come on Kubica!!!
Racism in football is very widespread, but equating the racist attitude of a few morons to Apartheid is an insult to our intelligence.
Do you really think that the Polish approach of deny that there is any problem at all and doing nothing about it is more likely to lessen the effects of racism in Poland?
see?your sick hypocrite nature is coming out again and again...now you are making a drama to make a point valid and you continue to slander Poland again by using lies and manipulation("Poland is denying racism existence")
nobody is denying anything here in Poland...racism exist everywhere in Europe...there are Nazis even in Israel....drunk people chanting stupid things are everywhere even in your ****** country...or even lots more.
point is brittard.you have no morality no moral mandate to lecture anybody in Europe
this BBC documentary has been named a manipulation BS even by people who took part in this GOEBBELS like defamation..
12 month London racial crime :8727