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Poland blocks any action on climate change


kondzior 8 | 946
12 Dec 2018  #181
No one takes the mambo jambo of climate change denying neanderthals serious. Go visit your medicine man and ask for some herbs. LOL!

You don't ask questions - you repeat answers.
You was told - cow's fart! danger! wind generators! solar panels! biodiesel! biofuel! green! bright green energy! forbid! NPP! stop eating meat!

Bird brains will never dabble in science, but rather only parrot mass propaganda over and over. It just proves AGW is a religion for sheeple.
Jaskier
12 Dec 2018  #182
But somehow most scientists are on the green side...
kondzior 8 | 946
12 Dec 2018  #183
If you haven't noticed the whole thing has become a gigantic business - grants, green subsidies, speculative investments, carbon cap trading. Plus political grandstanding and using "the crisis" to push for all sorts of political agendas.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,455
12 Dec 2018  #184
Or, you're just using that old Polish logic: Other people should follow the rules, but my case is special....

I seriously doubt that this is "Polish logic" only, to say nothing of "old Polish logic". This logic seems to be highly universal with the Anglo-Saxon world leading the world here ...

plane ticket taxes make the job too expensive then it's probably not so very, very necessary

Yes, I'm sure jon357's job is not so necessary that some other people could not do it without the need to fly six times a year for the purpose. Again, a typical example of "but my case is special" or "I am sooo special, so shut up, you fool".

Classical Brit Bullies' tactics on this forum that have been going on for ages...
mafketis 20 | 7,162
12 Dec 2018  #185
I seriously doubt that this is "Polish logic"

It's called "rule orientation" in the social science literature. Poland (like France) falls into the camp that wants lots of formal rules... which they don't care if anybody follows (or for which there are lots of personal exceptions).

Anglo countries tend to fall into the camp that wants as few rules as possible (but do care about following them and don't like to make exceptions).

Of course, money corrupts and so the elite everywhere don't feel constrained by rules made for little people, but at ground level the difference in rule orientation is the biggest single shock to everyday English speakers who find themselves living in Poland. Either they learn to adapt of they muddle along from disaster to disaster until they give up.
Jaskier
12 Dec 2018  #186
Well, to be fair i somtimes wonder what would be better- two hundred ppl flying for two hours for example or the same group driving separately in cars for 24 hours...Because let's be honest, ppl living abroad will visit home

@Kondzior
I love it. We can't trust scientists but we can trust some punk on the internet...
kondzior 8 | 946
12 Dec 2018  #187
No. Do not look up to someone to trust, the figure of authority, like a sheeple. Examine the data yourself, and make up your own mind.
Tacitus 2 | 837
12 Dec 2018  #188
Because you can clearly do a better job in 1-2 hours than the people who have dedicated their life to studying it... .
kondzior 8 | 946
12 Dec 2018  #189
Because it is always better to check for yourself. Take as much time as you need.
jon357 63 | 14,122
12 Dec 2018  #190
Because you can clearly do a better job in 1-2 hours than the people who have dedicated their life to studying it...

Quite. Never mind the 99% of people who actually got the doctorates and study something full-time. What do they know compared to Alex Jones or David Icke...

if just plane ticket taxes make the job too expensive then it's probably not so very, very necessary

Depends on the specific role. It's expensive enough to fly people long haul business class every month; and therefore those who pay for people to do that spend quite a lot of time and effort deciding whether or not it's 'very very necessary'.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,462
12 Dec 2018  #191
o one takes the mambo jambo of climate change denying neanderthals serious.

Kind of like how countless 'the sky is falling the sky is falling' dems like Al Gore have been talking about the glaciers being totally within a decade melted ever since the 70's? Yeah maybe a few arctic glaciers melted even though the Antarctic is still fine, so what? I hope the liberal coast cities go under water quicker.

You realize that climate change is a THEORY, not a fact/law, right? It does not satisfy a fact/law based on the scientific method. You're dead in the water at step 4. It is therefore at best a conjecture.

Besides, pollution can be useful. I always make sure to empty out my car's ashtrays and floor matts in a ****** neighborhood. I think of it as doing my part in keeping less desirable property values low, and my neighborhoods high. And you all say I'm selfish and have no sense of community... So there's no reason why developed countries can't keep doing it in the third world. Why would we want to pollute our own homes? Something about ******** where you eat comes to mind....

But for your edification I'll make a suggestion or two

None of which would work - maybe cruise ship tax but not at several times the price. People would simply stop going or travel to another country and buy their tickets there - similar to how PolAms buy airline tickets in Poland when they travel to places like Egypt, Thailand, Bulgaria, etc. to avoid the $300 per ticket tax in the US. Wealthy people simply move assets to places where they are taxed less - and tax havens will ALWAYS exist.

You can all enjoy your puny little 4 bangers if you want and ride around on public transportation like a bunch of schmucks, I'll take my American or German v8s thank you very much in all its 400hp glory and help make our winters a bit warmer. You can thank me once the hypothesis that humans are mostly responsible is finally proven by the scientific method.

Global warming just might be social Darwinism's best friend.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,462
12 Dec 2018  #192
theblaze.com/contributions/8-highly-inconvenient-facts-for-al-gore-10-years-after-his-infamous-movie

naturalnews.com/2018-01-01-al-gores-climate-change-predictions-implode-as-everybody-realizes-the-north-pole-didnt-completely-melt.html

Still waiting for those ice caps to melt and put California, Miami and NYC under water Mr. Gore....

Funny because none of the things he wrote about in 'Inconvenient Truth' (should've called it scientifically unproven lies instead)
Dougpol1 30 | 2,934
12 Dec 2018  #193
Examine the data yourself

Yep. Looks pretty definitive from here. This unprecedented speed in the trend of temperature rise has clearly (not) been caused by the CO2 emissions from the proliferation of herds of Aberdeen Angus cattle.

As long as the US economy rises year on year for the next 50 years, and America suddenly decides to invest hundreds of billions in the undeveloped world, the planet might have a chance to survive through increased tech.....

Oh, wait.......
mafketis 20 | 7,162
12 Dec 2018  #194
ride around on public transportation like a bunch of schmucks

the contempt you feel for you supposed countrymen could not be clearer....
jon357 63 | 14,122
12 Dec 2018  #195
cattle.

Beef consumption is even one of the worst things for the environment. By all means enjoy meat; just not so much of it and not so much waste. Pork is less damaging, as is (sustainable) fishing, and not eating meat the best of all for the future of the planet.

Poland is far from being the worst offender here; other countries have diets based containing more beef. Nevertheless, there are things we can do in Poland to help the situation.

the contempt you feel for you supposed countrymen

Yes. I'd go further and say that it's actually contempt for humanity, for society that has rejected him and nature which has given him such a bum deal in life.
Jaskier
12 Dec 2018  #196
Oh let him be... He still didn't realise he's a schmuck himself. With his intelligence it may take him a while.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,462
12 Dec 2018  #197
America suddenly decides to invest hundreds of billions in the undeveloped world, the planet might have a chance to survive through increased tech

You realize that the most polluted countries are also the ones that are least developed, while the most developed countries tend to be the least polluted?

The pollution in Africa isn't caused by Americans driving cars or Polish people using coal. The pollution is caused by third worlders doing third worlder things - Nigerians having tons of illegal oil refineries and dumping their **** everywhere, burning electronics to extract copper and gold, etc. Third worlders don't have proper sewage systems let alone pollution controls.

for society that has rejected him and nature which has given him such a bum deal in life.

Bum deal? I write this while sitting inside my big ass house wearing a silk bathrobe while others are slaving away at poverty wages. And if western society is promoting things like gay marriage and multiculturalism yeah I want no part of that. I'm totally content with my family and small group of like minded friends and gfs.

That's why I love my Polish homeland since my fellow countrymen are among the few European nations where the majority rejects things like third world migration, gay marriage, etc. Couldn't be prouder of my motherland. And they do things like host climate conferences in coal country while banning annoying greenpeace activities lololol.









TheOther 5 | 3,690
12 Dec 2018  #198
You realize that climate change is a THEORY

The religious nut jobs say the same about evolution and that Creationism should be treated as an equally valid "theory". The vast majority of scientists worldwide are telling us that climate change poses a real threat, and then there are some clowns who believe it is a Chinese hoax. See what I'm saying?

but rather only parrot mass propaganda over and over.

I have a beach property for sale. Interested? :)
Atch 17 | 2,840
12 Dec 2018  #199
It's a sad fact that Poland has the worst air pollution in the EU. Great article on it here:

nytimes.com/2018/04/22/world/europe/poland-pollution.html

On a side note, I can't believe how drab and depressing the classroom looks in the primary school and the lesson being taught chalk and talk style with no resources suitable for such young children, but at least they're being given the important message about the dangers of air pollution.
jon357 63 | 14,122
12 Dec 2018  #200
He still didn't realise he's a schmuck himself. With his intelligence it may take him a while.

Looks that way, doesn't itt. Palpably unhealthy fantasies, rather like the same person's views on man-made climate change and the other dog-whistle issues floating around the web.

Man-made climate change is a huge issue for Poland, especially the urban centres. There's a positive side; in Poland there are some genuine initiatives to be greener and cleaner.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,462
12 Dec 2018  #201
The religious nut jobs say the same about evolution and that Creationism should be treated as an equally valid "theory".

Well, the theory of evolution is still that - a theory not a law/rule. At least with evolution the argument can be made that it is an axiom/postulate based upon the large amount of evidence, experiments and very similar conclusions reached by numerous scientists. Climate change fails this test since an experiment cannot be devised and thus assumption are based upon induction, plus it is impossible to isolate the countless variables to see if man made pollution indeed causes global warming/climate change so a deductive experiment based conclusions where a variable is tested against control is impossible. Any climate change scientist, regardless of how much data he or she has and the inductive conclusions they've made will admit that climate change is a theory, not a fact. Is there evidence that suggests man made co2 emissions warm the earth? Perhaps. But the extent to which is inconclusive, an experiment cannot test this, and even the hypothesis reached by earth and atmosphere scientists vary. Some say that we're coming off a mini ice age, others explain that during the middle ages weather was much warmer than it is now, other's have been saying that the ice caps will be gone within the next 5, 10, 20 years ever since the 70's

Palpably unhealthy fantasies, rather like the same person's views on man-made climate change

Al Gore is a loon indeed. All of his stuff is B.S. and none of it has come true.

There's a positive side; in Poland there are some genuine initiatives to be greener and cleaner.

Like what? Hosting coal conferences to buddy up with Emperor Orange's minions? Coal is going nowhere in Poland. Polish people aren't going to give that up and neither will they agree to be taxed to pay for 'pollution' that poor countries cause themselves.
Dougpol1 30 | 2,934
12 Dec 2018  #202
Pork is less damaging

Pork causes cancers. Too much pork in the Polish diet:(
mafketis 20 | 7,162
12 Dec 2018  #203
I can't believe how drab and depressing the classroom looks in the primary school

Most of the pictures look like they were chosen from grimness.... that's the US stereotype of Poland, grim and dirty so of course the NYT will try to reinforce that.
TheOther 5 | 3,690
12 Dec 2018  #204
climate change is a theory, not a fact

Ask the people of Vanuatu or Isle de Jean Charles. They might disagree with you.
jon357 63 | 14,122
12 Dec 2018  #205
Pork causes cancers

Processed pork (kielbasa, szynka), certainly. It's apparently less damaging to the environment than beef though. Nevertheless, it still isn't ideal. More and more veggies now in Poland, which for the environment is a plus.
Jaskier
12 Dec 2018  #206
@ Arch
This is not a normal classroom for kids that age. I assume they were moved there for those classes.
@Market is
The pictures are grim but so is the air in Poland. In many cities the air is marked as bad most of the winter, sometimes moderate and very rarely good. Even if someone doesn't believe climate change they have to see how bad it is to breath all this crap.
kondzior 8 | 946
13 Dec 2018  #207
This unprecedented speed in the trend of temperature rise has clearly (not) been caused by the CO2 emissions from the proliferation of herds of Aberdeen Angus cattle.

Unprecedented? Look at that chart, I put on the previous page. Average temperatures have been in constant flux throughout the centuries. The latest small rise is just a part of overall pattern.

Ancient Egyptians would have much more reasons to be alarmed about the global temperature changes.
jon357 63 | 14,122
13 Dec 2018  #208
Even if someone doesn't believe climate change they have to see how bad it is to breath all this crap.

I was down in Kraków for a meeting a while ago, and my white shirt was grey in parts after just a day there. That's the pollution, part and parcel of the same industrialisation that has caused man-made climate change. Poland is far from being the worst offender; much of the damage was caused by among other things ethyl lead, used when America was still industrial. China is now spilling all their nasties into the atmosphere.

Man-made climate change is certainly real; there is no credible doubt on this issue. The deniers tend to adopt their odd ideas as part of a package of anti-vaxxing, anti-fluoridosation and various other bits of nonsense.
Dougpol1 30 | 2,934
13 Dec 2018  #209
The latest small rise is just a part of overall pattern.

No. Real and projected temperature rises are much faster than found in the geological record. Ask glaciologists and sedimentologists. It's scientific fact I'm afraid.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,462
13 Dec 2018  #210
Ask the people of Vanuatu or Isle de Jean Charles

It's scientific fact I'm afraid.

Are they scientists? Do they understand the scientific method? If so, they would know in order for a hypothesis to be an established fact/law variables must be isolated and tested against a control and achieve the same results in every experiment. Thus, testing global warming/cooling is impossible, at the moment, thus confirm it cannot be confirmed a scientific fact as any theories fail to advance beyond the theory that man made c02 caused global warming/cooling. This is chem/bio/physics lab 101 type basics...

The deniers tend to adopt their odd ideas as part of a package of anti-vaxxing, anti-fluoridosation and various other bits of nonsense.

No different than 'green' types promoting a package of mental disease like making soy a big part of diets, lgbt rights and giving turd worlders gibs. This is why I love Czar Putin I. If someone paid greenpeace soy boy tied himself to a tree they'd chop it down with him standing there. And the guy would be looked as a hero for getting rid of undesirable 'western elements'

Anyway, its breakfast time. For every animal some soy boy vegan doesn't eat, I am going to eat three. Our ranchers need support.


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