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1.3% birth rate = Poland's slow death


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Sep 2012 #1
TVN24 has reported that Poland's birth rate of 1.3% is at the bottom of the European barrel together with Bulgaria and Lithuania. That menas that in a few decades there will be oen able-bodied working Pole for each old-age pensioner. At present the ratrio is 4:1.

Why don't Poles want to have kids? Hollywood's and mainstresm media anti-marriage propaganda, greed, selfishness, career obsession, narcissism (stretch-mark fear!), short-sightedness, here and now obsession or what? Probably only native Poles living in Poland are best suited to give a reliable answer. Outsiders -- expats, emigres, Pol-Ams, other Polonians, foreign visitors, etc. are not alwazs representative of what native Poles think, feel and do.
goofy_the_dog
2 Sep 2012 #2
In my opinion, it is mainly the fault of the goverment, they've cut Becikowe, they"ve cut out most of the paid holiday after the child is born...

The only thing that the PO "done" FOR the new Polish families, is that they are hesitating with the introduction of abortion without any grounds, just for now...

Apart from that because of the way that they govern the country, (Civic Platform added 300 billion zlotys to our public debt) people run away from the country to have children in a better places like the UK.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Sep 2012 #3
All governmetns have pledged a pro-family policy of one sort or anotehr, of which the pitiful 'becikowe' (nappy allownace) is one example. How large a one-off or regular monthly allowance would be needed to make a difference, ie to persuade those who want to give birth but think they cannot afford it?
Szlachcic - | 36
2 Sep 2012 #4
correction: they are having LOTS of kids.............in the UK. ;D

My younger cousin (lives in small town near Białystok) just got married at age 18, and is expecting his first child to be born in 2 months!! He is one of 7 boys!

I am very happy for him and his family!! :)
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
2 Sep 2012 #5
Hollywood's and mainstresm media anti-marriage propaganda, greed, selfishness, career obsession, narcissism (stretch-mark fear!), short-sightedness, here and now obsession or what?

I've always said the same. Its very unfortunate the way our population is declining. I would personally hope to wipe off all access to Hollywood crap forever. This "hollywood" culture will eat away our society. They show disrespect, and racism aswell. They show no faith on marriage. Anyones wife can start an affair or kiss others any moment, having casual sex is seen to be 'normal'.

I respect their own freedom to be what they want to be, but we Poles need to take a grip on our reality.

Actually its a European problem. I remember watching "From Paris with love". The French should kick the movie, but we are nothing more than loosers these days. Fools.
Szlachcic - | 36
2 Sep 2012 #6
racism

Racism is EXACTLY what Poland needs to endorse in order to keep it pure, and by that I mean homogenous, which suits the country perfectly! :)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
2 Sep 2012 #7
In my opinion

You shouldn't be so liberal with the dissemination of your opinion goofy (: Because the exact opposite has happened, for your information:
premier.gov.pl/en/government_activities/children_and_family

Your parents aren't pro PIS by any chance are they?

"Longer Holidays after Childbirth
Since January 2009 maternity leaves have been prolonged and in 2010 they were divided into two parts: basic and additional. In line with the basic part, mothers are entitled to a 20 week leave after giving birth to one child, and to a 31-37 week leave in case of a multiple pregnancy. The additional part of the holiday amounts to 2 and 3 weeks, respectively. Over the consecutive years - 2012 and 2013 - the additional maternity leave will be gradually prolonged to reach - in 2014 - six weeks for one child and 8 weeks for more. On January 1, 2010, the right to a leave connected with a child being born has also been granted to fathers. At present, the fraternity leave lasts 1 week. From 2012 onwards, it will be made longer by another week."

within the limited means at their disposal, they have done quite a bit.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Sep 2012 #8
All the pro-PO propaganda on the Tusk government website looks nice on the screen, but Poland is neverhteless at the very tail end of Europe in terms of fertility.
teflcat 5 | 1,032
2 Sep 2012 #9
Why don't you come and live here, Polonius? Then you would have more of a right to criticize.

Racism is EXACTLY what Poland needs

Don't bring this racist when you come.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,894
2 Sep 2012 #10
In my opinion, it is mainly the fault of the goverment, they've cut Becikowe, they"ve cut out most of the paid holiday after the child is born...

Oh dear. Where do you read this stuff?

Apart from that because of the way that they govern the country, (Civic Platform added 300 billion zlotys to our public debt) people run away from the country to have children in a better places like the UK.

And they didn't leave during the PiS government? Hahahaa....if anything, it was worse, because the educated were leaving then.

How large a one-off or regular monthly allowance would be needed to make a difference, ie to persuade those who want to give birth but think they cannot afford it?

More than the government can afford. Enough babies are being born, it's not a problem. When unemployment is 0%, then we can worry.

My younger cousin (lives in small town near Białystok) just got married at age 18, and is expecting his first child to be born in 2 months!! He is one of 7 boys!

Great. More morons to sit around drinking beer in their white socks.

Racism is EXACTLY what Poland needs to endorse in order to keep it pure, and by that I mean homogenous, which suits the country perfectly! :)

Except...you do realise that anyone with the slightest grasp of history knows that Poles have mixed with other ethnicities for centuries? Especially in the Eastern areas.

Don't bring this racist when you come.

He's obviously sitting in the UK or the USA anyway, don't worry ;)

(the way that he goes on about the PRL would get him more than a bloody nose here...)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
2 Sep 2012 #11
All the pro-PO propaganda

You call it propaganda, and yet you haven't indicated if the above information is incorrect in anyway, so i take it that you agree with this propaganda? If you don't provide an answer i will take that as a yes. And if you say you don't without producing evidence to the contrary, i will just take this to mean that you a full of shite.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
2 Sep 2012 #12
It is worrying but I think it is up to the government to sort it out. Couples leaves Poland to have their children in other countries because they feel they can provide a better life for their family there. Speak to some of them and you would see that they would return in a flash if Poland did more for families and young people in general. Of course some would stay anyway as they are not patriotic and just want to live somewhere else [you can often tell you they are as they do not even speak to their children in Polish, since they have not intention of returning to Poland] but the majority would go back.
Wroclaw Boy
2 Sep 2012 #13
Couples leaves Poland to have their children in other countries because they feel they can provide a better life for their family there.

I agree with all that.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,894
2 Sep 2012 #14
Speak to some of them and you would see that they would return in a flash if Poland did more for families and young people in general.

The question is - does Poland need them to come back?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Sep 2012 #15
The evidence is 1.3% birth rate. If the pro-family stuff was so good it should be 2.5% which is the minimum to offset mortality and grow.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
2 Sep 2012 #16
Why don't Poles want to have kids? Hollywood's and mainstresm media anti-marriage propaganda, greed, selfishness, career obsession, narcissism

Neither. Many people especially young are struggling financially how can they bring someone else into this world? Especially when the government gives a lousy 1000zl for a newborn. During communist times it was rough but at least everyone had a job, free health care.
kondzior 10 | 965
2 Sep 2012 #17
As I mention in other thread, more women being educating and dedicating more time to work = less children. Which would mean nation would get replaced by another one, which is faster breeding (see EU issue with blacks and muslims).

The more educated women in society = the less children is being born by them
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,719
2 Sep 2012 #18
ya, woman should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

(lol imagine that said in a strong Afrikaans accent, i swear it's a genuine quote)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,894
2 Sep 2012 #19
Many people especially young are struggling financially how can they bring someone else into this world?

They managed just fine during the diabolical early 1980's, didn't they?
kondzior 10 | 965
2 Sep 2012 #20
You dont understand that society where majority of women has 1 children only would die out? And they will be replaced by those which has 10 children?
jon357 63 | 14,282
2 Sep 2012 #21
No bad thing really - some people are having smaller families and some are having larger. I don't see a problem.
milky 13 | 1,657
2 Sep 2012 #22
Hollywood's and mainstresm media anti-marriage propaganda, greed, selfishness, career obsession, narcissism (stretch-mark fear!), short-sightedness, here and now obsession or what?

Are you insinuating that people need to be more devout in order for Poles "in Poland" to start reproducing ? None of what you spewed pointed to economical reasons.

Are the other country like Ireland who have a very high birthrate, popping out kids because they are more catholic and less
kondzior 10 | 965
2 Sep 2012 #23
No bad thing really - some people are having smaller families and some are having larger. I don't see a problem.

Taking simplified example:

20 afro-african women have 100 children (50 survived) = than 50 children when grow-up would have 250

versus

20 white and cultural high IQ women have 10 children (10 survive, ok) = than 10 would have 5 children

What would you think would happen next? Wake up, mate. There would be no "society" (EU society with EU principles and EU nations and EU history) that you are talking about when whites die out and get replaced by dumb but fast-breeding
jon357 63 | 14,282
2 Sep 2012 #24
Who cares what colour a child is or where their ancestors came from? Kondzior, you are obsessed with 'race'.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,894
2 Sep 2012 #25
dumb but fast-breeding

Much of Polska B can be described as exactly that.
kondzior 10 | 965
2 Sep 2012 #26
Who cares what colour a child is or where their ancestors came from?

It will not be Poland amymore.

Much of Polska B can be described as exactly that

So why the fertility rate is so low?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Sep 2012 #27
Please define Polska B, thank you in advance.
jon357 63 | 14,282
2 Sep 2012 #28
Google it and you'll find the standard definition. No need to thank me.

It will not be Poland amymore.

it will still be Poland. A very differ Poland but that is no bad thing and in any case everything always changes with time.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Sep 2012 #29
This is not an official term, therefore there is no standard definition.

No need to thank me.

I know.
kondzior 10 | 965
2 Sep 2012 #30
Not "changed". Completly replaced. Dead. And burried.


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