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Poland bets on Russian oil again


Borsukrates 5 | 131
6 Jan 2016  #1
The last chairman of PKN Orlen, Wojciech Krawiec started importing Saudi oil. After firing him, PiS appointed Wojciech Jasiński. Now Wojciech Jasiński signed deals with Rosnieft (Tatnieft, its Swiss affiliate to be exact) to increase oil imports from Russia. The new contract replaces the old one, raises imports from 1.2 mln tons to 2.4 mln tons and will last 3 years.

Thoughts ?

Apparently diversification and not relying on Russian resources is not so important.

PiS likes Russia and Putin much more than it pretends. They use the same language ("Nation" instead of "Society"), share contempt for law and democratic institutions, share values (hatred for different religions, colored people, gay people, Jews, foreigners in general). Like with much else, you see PiS intentions by what they don't say.

I wouldn't bet a south end of a north bound rat on PiS supporting Ukraine. Back in the time of Marshal Piłsudski nationalists wanted to partitition Ukraine, not support its independence.

Hungary can afford to sign deals like this with Russia, because it's not in the geopolitical crash zone. In Poland's case, it's foolish.
Levi 12 | 450
6 Jan 2016  #2
1000 times better buy Russian Oil and finance Russia striking the hell out of the terrorists in Syria...

Than buy Saudi Arabian Oil and finance those same terrorists.

(Maybe you don't like that idea because you defend those same terrorists).

Positive Point for PiS.
dolnoslask
6 Jan 2016  #3
Russian oil is cheaper at the moment with low transport costs via existing pipelines. so I guess they are going for value for money , they can switch back to saudi tanker oil at any time they wish.

I think that it is important to continue to invest in LNG gas terminals so that more gas can be brought in via ship to avoid any future potential black mail from Russia.
OP Borsukrates 5 | 131
6 Jan 2016  #4
Saudi Arabia is much farther and much weaker than Russian Federation. It's a much smaller threat for Poland and the world peace in general. Russia is even carrying out terrorist attacks in Syria, for example it bombed a waste treatment plant, a market full of people, a mosque, hospitals, and 10+ bakeries feeding over 200,000 people. Organizations like Doctors Without Borders, Amnesty International and United Nations (ONZ) call these war crimes, and say they were done on purpose. Over 200 civilians were killed. These are all well documented with photos and videos.
nothanks - | 640
6 Jan 2016  #5
IMO tough to find a more repulsive nation on this planet than Saudi Arabia. Yes, even after considering North Korea
Levi 12 | 450
6 Jan 2016  #6
Saudi Arabia is much farther and much weaker than Russian Federation.

No, it is not much weaker. Saudi Arabia have twice the money reserves that Russia have. Those are the 3rd biggest reserves of the world, just after China and Japan.

It finances virtually ALL terrorist groups of the world, from Kenya to Somalia, from Philippines to Syria.

If there is a giant refugee crisis nowadays, it is because the Saudis paid for that.

So dont call them a small menace, it sounds ridiculous.

Russia is even carrying out terrorist attacks in Syria, for example it bombed a waste treatment plant, a market full of people

Because your local Turkish newspaper said?
polishinvestor 1 | 362
6 Jan 2016  #7
Well if oil stays at current levels the Saudis are going to have a problem balancing their budget this year and will have to dip into those wealth funds that they have been building over the last few decades. This will have reprecussions on the assets classes where those sales are made. Largely due to the dictatorship, Saudi wealth has largely been sqandered and were oil to run out they have zero to fall back on. So while the Saudi titanic looks impressive, the holes below sea level will eventually sink it, though maybe not in our lifetime.
OP Borsukrates 5 | 131
6 Jan 2016  #8
And why do you think Russia is bombing Syria ? Perhaps to add fuel to the fire and make Syrians migrate even faster ? Russia has nothing to lose, it knows refugees won't go to Russia.
RUR
6 Jan 2016  #9
Saudi Arabia have twice the money reserves that Russia have.

S. Arabia does not have the technologies that Russia has, that is the things like GLONASS (Russian JPS),Space technologies, military technologies, nuclear technologies, scientific and

production facilities etc. Not sure that S. Arabia is able to get all these things even if the money
reserve is twice as big as Russia's

Back on topic please
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Jan 2016  #10
Thoughts ?

Pathetic manipulations, as usual.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
6 Jan 2016  #11
The last chairman of PKN Orlen, Wojciech Krawiec started importing Saudi oil.

Not a surprise in the slightest. PiS are very much a front for people sympathetic towards Russia, and there are plenty of murmurings that people within PiS are very much aligned to Russian interests rather than European interests.

Having a weak Russia is very much in Poland's geopolitical interests. Signing deals with Russia to increase dependence on Russia is very much not in Poland's interest.

Wojciech Jasiński

Another ex-PZPR goon with managerial responsibilities in state institutions. No surprise that he's signing deals with Russia.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Jan 2016  #12
PiS are very much aligned to Russian interests rather than European interests.

CDU is aligned to Russian interests 10 thousand times more than PiS will ever be. Now facts, the new deal with Russians is far better than the previous one, first purchase of Saudi oil was more for technical evaluation and a tool to pressure Russians, previous "government" did barely anything to diversify oil supplies to Poland for damn 8 years, PiS will likely do much more in the next 2 years alone but only a damn imbecile could think that one could switch overnight to different types of oil (we're talking about tens millions of tonnes) and revoke long term deals. Your problem is that you think Poles are idiots. We (in most cases) aren't and your cheap propaganda can't affect anyone over 7 years old.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
7 Jan 2016  #13
CDU is aligned to Russian interests 10 thousand times more than PiS will ever be.

I couldn't care less about the German CDU. I care about Poland buying Russian oil at a time when Putin is struggling to balance his budget. Anyone with an ounce of patriotism would know that supporting Russian interests is clearly a terrible idea, but what else can you expect from PiS?

Your problem is that you think Poles are idiots.

I think anything but. PiS have been very clever - they convinced the electorate that they were for a strong, independent Poland and now they're showing us that they've been nothing but a front for Russian influence over Poland.

We (in most cases) aren't and your cheap propaganda can't affect anyone over 7 years old.

I notice that you've adopted the same tactics as the PZPR did - jump into bed with Russians and insult/attempt to discredit anyone that criticses your policies.

Shows how these "patriots" are nothing but the same type that turned up in 1945.
whocares
7 Jan 2016  #14
I love how the clueless Muslims and British foreigners have not much clue about Poland here.
PIS is still quite anti-Russian because of its connections with neocons and nato.

However, both nations are still majority Slavic and many social politics/values both nations share.
Both are proChristian and want to protect their nations.

In any case,
better Russia than Saudis or decadent Western Europeans.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
7 Jan 2016  #15
PIS is still quite anti-Russian because of its connections with neocons and nato.

Come on, the whole thing at the minute - causing endless trouble with European partners while allegedly seeking close cooperation with America (which we know won't happen) very much points at close cooperation with Russia.

Both are proChristian and want to protect their nations.

Nice of you to admit that you see similarities with Russia. How long before you call for Russia to defend Poland against foreign influences?

In any case,
better Russia

Treason. Nothing more to it.

Some extra information about the original topic...

orlen.pl/EN/PressOffice/Pages/PKN-ORLEN-signs-an-annex-to-a-long-term-crude-oil-supply-contract-with-Rosneft-Oil-Company.aspx

The agreement, with an estimated maximum value in current market conditions of around PLN 26bn, provides for the supply of between 18 million to 25.2 million tonnes of crude oil.

Shocking. That represents a transaction of 6.5 billion USD with Russia - even when alternative supplies are available.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
7 Jan 2016  #16
Russian influence over Poland.

Russian influence over Poland is nearly 0. Unlike that of your beloved Gerries, which is gigantic.

better Russia than Saudis

It's not that Russians were chosen over Saudis, it's all ******** from a "liberal" troll. The goal is to create a wide array of suppliers and thus push the prices down. That's what going to happen and Russians went down with the price to defend at least part of the market and it's good, that's what the whole thing is about. I don't see any reason why we should totally stop buying from Russians, one has to be utter moron to think about it.

Read about the reality, ignore the clown.

Discount, sales flexibility, supplies delivered to Mažeikiai through the Būtingė oil terminal - these are some of the huge steps taken by the Russians in order to, at least partially, defend the Polish crude oil export market. Despite the above, the spot agreements market share is going to be successively increased anyway, as more and more of agreements of this type are being signed with the partners from the Middle East.

defence24.com/288871,spectacular-compromise-on-the-part-of-the-russians-new-agreement-between-orlen-and-rosneft
Levi 12 | 450
7 Jan 2016  #17
We (in most cases) aren't and your cheap propaganda can't affect anyone over 7 years old.

PERFECT!

IAnyone with an ounce of patriotism

Patriotism? You are a brit/turkish. Your government is aligned with terrorists, that is why you want Poland to buy oil from them instead of the russians.
pweeg
7 Jan 2016  #18
What sort of patriot finances a country that invaded Poland three times in the 20th century and occupied it'd for hundreds of years?

What sort of patriot finances a country that has repeatedly threatened a nuclear attack and ran military exercises simulating nuclear attack on Warsaw and invasion of Poland?
Levi 12 | 450
7 Jan 2016  #19
Talk about Soviet Union* to hate the Russian republic is equivalent to someone from Greece hate Germans because of the massacres commited during Nazi times.

It is plain stupidity.

*By the way, most russians nowadays also hate the Soviet Union, just see how ridiculous is the communist party there.

But of course you dont see that on your socialist BBC/CNN sources that demonize Russia all the way while celebrate the beautiful saudi culture that beheads everyone.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
7 Jan 2016  #20
It is plain stupidity.

No Levi, it is plain stupidity to finance a country that has openly and repeatedly threatened Poland in the last few years.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html
theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/15/russia.poland.nuclear.missiles.threat
currenteventspoland.com/news/russia-aims-iskan der-missiles-at-poland.html

You're Brazilian and living off Saudi money, so you obviously know nothing about how Russia has been repeatedly threatening and insulting Poland. Those of us living here are painfully aware that Russia is a major threat to Polish security.

Russian influence over Poland is nearly 0.

Sure. It was under PO, but now, with this government comprised of many ex-PZPR loyalists in prominent positions as well as a very clear policy of breaking links with the rest of the EU - it's about as Russian-friendly as it gets. We know the agenda of PiS - it's to restore things to the pre-1989 way of doing things. We can expect a deepening of economic ties with Russia at the expense of relations with the rest of the EU.
OP Borsukrates 5 | 131
7 Jan 2016  #21
Aligning itself with Hungary is another way Poland indirectly gets close to Russia. Russia is no longer a communist dystopia, but a nationalist mafia state. That's a country where Police approaches a chemical company and proposes manufacturing drugs. Refuse, and they make a case against you. On another occassion a family company was senteced for selling drugs - they were baking bread rolls with poppy seeds. I guess they failed to pay protection money ?

Russia recently put Iskander cruise missiles in Kaliningrad Oblast. Maybe this time they won't be used against Poland ? Let's cross our fingers!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
7 Jan 2016  #22
Aligning itself with Hungary is another way Poland indirectly gets close to Russia.

Indeed. Only a fool would try and defend what PiS is doing - it seems that closer links with Russia has been their goal all along, although it was camouflaged in nationalist hyperpole in the same vein as the PZPR.

Still, we shouldn't be too surprised - what can we expect from a party where the undisputed leader surrounds himself with ex-PZPR functionaries? Leaning towards Russia and entering the Russian sphere of influence is entirely what we can expect. I think we can all observe how the usual Russian attacks on Poland have ceased since the election - as clearly it suits Putin to have his Polish puppets PiS in power.
G (undercover)
7 Jan 2016  #23
What sort of patriot finances a country that invaded Poland three times

LOL ! According to this logic we should build a huge wall on the western border. Utter nonsense. PiS was called "Russophobes" that are going to start the war with Russia over the years and now nasty propagandists change the tune 180 degrees because somehow now we must hide under the skirt of Mutti Merkel or else big evil Russia will eat us alive. We should buy more expansive oil in 100% from half of the world away while Gerries will fuel up their economy with the cheap one from Russia, right. The point is to go down with Russian oil to ~50% of supply and the rest from several other directions, that's the "Poland first" strategy, your crowd would like to keep the "good cop/bad cop" game against Russia where the good one is Germany and the bad one is Poland and has to pay the price for that, just like when Sikorski was barking at Russians on orders from abroad and then Gerries were coming up with "oh we need more dialog and compromise !" and signing lucrative deals with Kremlin again and again.

Sure. It was under PO

Sure. Under PO cows were giving twice as much milk. Ayeeeee !!!!!111 Dude, I proved your "PiS are pro-Putin !!" line to be total nonsense in #17 and you keep coming up with your shameless lies. Go get a real job, foreigner.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
7 Jan 2016  #24
Utter nonsense.

Notice how you suddenly start to be pro-Russia just because PiS revealed themselves to be so.

Must admit, it was a great strategy by PiS - they convinced everyone that they were anti-Russian, then within weeks of the election, revealed themselves to be nothing but Putin's lackeys. He must be laughing his head off - he's managed to put a bunch of puppets in power in Warsaw that will happily sign deals with him even when everyone else is piling on the pain.

Certainly, we should investigate links between PiS and Russia as a matter of national security.

Go get a real job, foreigner.

Go get a job that doesn't involve working as Putin's paid propagandist, traitor.
G (undercover)
7 Jan 2016  #25
Notice how you suddenly start to be pro-Russia

I'm not "pro-Russia" at all anywhere else than in your propaganda scripts, nasty manipulator. I'm pro-Poland and regarding the deal you are spreading nasty lies about, again here are details:

defence24.com/288871,spectacular-compromise-on-the-part-of-the-russians-new-agreement-between-orlen-and-rosneft

Anyone with a brain can easily draw conclusions.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
7 Jan 2016  #26
I'm not "pro-Russia" at all anywhere else than in your propaganda scripts, nasty manipulator.

You're very pro-Russia, because you seem to be very keen to defend this deal with a country that openly threatened Poland on a regular basis. Makes perfect sense why you were always abusing PO, because they represented a threat to your pro-Russian outlook.

I'm pro-Poland

Anyone with a brain can easily draw conclusions.

The conclusion is obvious : you openly support doing deals with a country that has repeatedly threatened Poland with military action over the last few years.
RUR
7 Jan 2016  #27
Signing deals with Russia to increase dependence on Russia is very much not in Poland's interest.

Not sure that the creation of Polish-China boundary is in Poland's geopolitical interests.
I think that It is not in Poland's or Europe's interests to weaken Russia incessantly.
Exhausted Russia also means immigration and refugee flows to the EU at the highest levels ever experienced, i mean it'll be much, much more impressive than the current crises .

To the mode : I think it is difficult to discus Russian oil without discussing Russia

With due respect to censorship values and traditions and our censor authorities in particular

Please focus on Poland and Russian oil only; other issues on the relevant threads.
whocares
7 Jan 2016  #28
well said to both g and levi.
I dont see anything "proPutin" in what g said.
Sadly the schizophrenics see Putin under their bed everywhere they go.
You have to be insane to believe PIS is under Putin rule.

And, either way making business and improving relations with a nearby neighbouring nuclear power is important.
Poland and Europe are suffering from these sanctions.
If the lunatics keep their Russophobic aggressive stance and **** of the country,
the chance Russia attacks Poland increases.
Maybe for the foreigners its not important, but I dont want Russian missiles falling on Warsaw. We have no way of knowing what NATO would do to protect Poland and I doubt the US would start nuclear war over Poland.
OP Borsukrates 5 | 131
8 Jan 2016  #29
LOL ! According to this logic we should build a huge wall on the western border.

No. This belongs here in this thread, moderators, because it's a direct reply. Don't take it out of context.

Military expenses:

Russia - 61 000 000 000 USD, 3.5% GDP
Germany - 48 022 000 000, 1.3% GDP
Poland - 10 860 000 000 USD, 1.95% GDP

There were also articles that Bundeswehra is deteriorating and incapable of helping Poland in case NATO was attacked.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
8 Jan 2016  #30
Borsukrates, do you have any numbers on the price per barrel on this contract?

I've heard a figure suggesting that Poland has committed to paying $45/bl. when the current price is far less.


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