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Do you believe that western Europe (ie EU) won`t punish Poland if Poland try to go out of EU?


polishinvestor 1 | 362
20 Jan 2016  #31
For a start Szydlo has officially said she wont budge on Camerons insistence that new immigrants from EU have to wait 4 years before getting benefits. Entirely reasonable demand from the UK, requiring people put something into the system before getting paid out. But I digress. So its unlikely Cameron is going to be smiling in any photos with her as he is already getting bad press in the UK.

On the point of UK leaving the EU, the UK pays in more than it gets out from the EU while London is the financial capital of the world and this is largely down to geography/timezone. So it makes it a focal point for US EU and Asian banking, so you are going to have to do business with London whether EU or no EU for the UK (not saying any transition wont be bumpy). Poland on the other hand doesnt have such a strong hand, its still developing
InPolska 11 | 1,821
20 Jan 2016  #32
Although I hate UK's conservatives and Cameron in particular, they are absolutely right on this! Why should British (and other) taxpayers feed Poles and consorts? Foreigners should first of all contribute to the system because starting to use it. If Poles want and need welfare measures, maybe they should demand the POLISH government for such measures and take down to the streets if necessary.

In order to be fair, it should be based upon reciprocity. Not only UK but ALL western European countries do same, but do UK or other western Europeans get any benefit from Polish state? Nope! So why free lunches on one side and nothing on the other? Do for instance he hordes of ESL teachers get free medical care and medication, free housing, etc etc.. from Polish State? No so why should Brisith (and other) State(s) do????

Poland has shown one more time that they consider Western EU as mere cows to milk! Stop your welfare reciepient's mentality, Poland, because this is the way Western Europe see you.

All this gives Poland and similar countries a very bad reputation and triggers xenophobia and extremism. I know a lot of Poles in Poland who are ashamed of Polish mentality and think the way I do.
Kennyboy 1 | 44
20 Jan 2016  #33
Poland leaving the EU, never likely to happen, would the rest of the EU punish Poland if they did, I doubt it, I'm no expert on Polish politics but I'm sure that PiS know which side their bread is buttered as a net recipient of EU funding.

InPolska, I couldn't agree more, let me give you an even better example. A story I have been following for about 18 months.

Child benefit in the UK is classed as a ''universal'' benefit, all are entitled to it irrespective of the parents salary although recently there was a small tax payment implemented for parents with a salary of 50,000 GBP or more per year, also, as it's classed as ''universal'' you don't actually have to be working to claim it. There are approx. 27,000 Polish children who live in Poland but one or both of their parents live, not necessarily working in the UK that currently receive the full UK child benefit payments, the weekly rate is, 20GBP for the 1st child and 13GBP for all subsequent children, so Polish guy/girl in the UK, 3 children in Poland = 1x20 + 2x13 = 46, lets just say the exchange rate is 5zl per pound, = 920zl every 4 weeks, lets say the parent is working in a warehouse on minimum wage, take into account the working tax credit and the child tax credit they would be ''entitled'' to, now we can see how much milk we can get from the cow.

Now lets give it a comparison. I am a single male living in Poland, I have never claimed a penny in UK benefits, imagine I get into some sort of financial difficulty, can I claim any benefits from the UK, NO I don't live there, can I claim any benefits from Poland, NO I've never had a job here and paid into the Polish system, I thought we were all European?????? Is It a case of ''we're all equal brothers but some are more equal than others''

I understand that David Cameron is trying to make the UK unattractive to people, His problem is that he has 27 other countries and a mountain of EU legislation to wade through.

Just an after thought, of the 10 countries that joined the EU in 2004, people from those 10 countries on JSA (job seekers allowance) in the UK total almost 31,000 people, UK citizens living in any of those same 10 countries claiming the equivalent benefit total just 62 people ???????
polishinvestor 1 | 362
20 Jan 2016  #34
I know a lot of Poles in Poland who are ashamed of Polish mentality and think the way I do.

InPolska, most Poles who are working and have a mortgage arent in a position to up sticks and leave for the UK. Generally its the workshy layabouts that are the ones moving to jump on the benefits system. If you stand outside any one of the Polish shops that have sprouted up in England it wont take long for a group of "silownia" loving bald men in cheap tracksuits to start shouting loudly at each other with every second word Ku*** or H**. These people are word apart from the Poles that settled after the war or came in the years following.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
20 Jan 2016  #35
@Kenny! once more 100% with you! All this is not fair EU claims that benefits are universal but bs! If let's say a Briton, German, French, Belgian, Irish, Dane, Swede... or whatever else from West goes to Poland for instance. What kind of benefits would they get? Absolutely ZERO or at most a couple of ZL whereas let's say someone from Poland (or Bulgaria, or the Czech Republic and consorts) moves to any western country, right away they are entitled to welfare (kids', housing's allowances, free medical care, scholarship for their kids, and all the other kinds of benefits ...) without having paid anything into the system. EU claims it is fair not it is NOT because it is only one way.

Althoug I'm social-democrat, I am AGAINST (all) foreigners not having paid into the system to receive benefits elsewhere. All this triggers xenophobia and extremist parties. I have lived in several countries and never got a free lunch whereas foreigners, including Poles but not only of course, get a lot (Polish students for instance on Erasmus program get at least 1/2 of their rent in private accommodation paid for by French State (the principle = everybody should be treated the same way) - I know from personal experience, I don't need to find stuff in YouTube like a lot of PF members do).

For sure, I cannot stand Cameron and all his arrogance, but now he's right. Britons get nothing when in Poland so why should Poles get benefits in UK????? You can change "Britons" and "Poles" with any other nationality but what bugs me is the welfare recipient's mentality found in most Poles and very sad, among their top politicians. Szydlo and others shall not dictate their whims to the British (and any other) government.

It should be on a reciprocical basis: benefits ONLY to those from countries offering similar benefits to foreigners.

PS: you made me laugh with the "student" with his "uncle" and the "po box school" ;)
Ironside 47 | 9,587
20 Jan 2016  #36
Entirely reasonable demand from the UK

Not really, I mean that the main problem people in England have with the EU is uncontrollable influx of immigrants, not benefits. If that four year ban would have been implemented it still wouldn't stop that influx but would allow Cameron to brag about success of his policy.

Poland on the other hand doesnt have such a strong hand, its still developing

Yeah and with the EU meddling will stay that way in the foreseeable future. Anyway that developing moniker is just a pure poppycock form the realistic point of view.

Although

Get lost, or better still get lost in leaps, frog!

Poland leaving the EU, never likely to happen

Never say never!

I understand that David Cameron is trying to make the UK unattractive to people,

It is a way to late for that. He wants to have a cake and eat it. In fact the EU Nice Treaty and few others would have to be renegotiated and that would be very hard to do that due to fact that a strong pro-EU lobby have a truckloads of money and influence. Fat cats wouldn't like to take they their paws out of the cookie jar.
jon357 63 | 14,342
20 Jan 2016  #37
Not really, I mean that the main problem people in England have with the EU is uncontrollable influx of immigrants

Immigration over the decades started long before EU entry (or the EEC becoming the EU in 1990) therefore nothing to do with the EU, and in the current wave of refugees, far fewer are going to the UK (or Poland) than other countries.
Kennyboy 1 | 44
20 Jan 2016  #38
Hey, all, as this benefit grabbing only seems to be one way I have an idea, an EU citizen, NOT from the UK, lets say Estonia, goes to the UK, claims some sort of benefits, he/she only gets the equivalent to what they would receive and for the same period of time in their own country, what do you think????

The welfare state as we know it in the UK came into being in the late 1940s (although it has been around informally for much longer) and was intended as a safety net for all when they fell on hard times, I can remember the stigma felt by my father when he was unemployed for a couple of months and would have to go down to the ''labour exchange'' now it's more like a cash cow for all and sundry.

Ironside, I agree, my mistake, never say never.
jon357 63 | 14,342
20 Jan 2016  #39
he/she only gets the equivalent to what they would receive and for the same period of time in their own country, what do you think????

We'd need to harmonise the benefits system Throughout the EU before that could work, and it would also be illegal under our own laws. It would also defeat the object of having a benefits system in the first place; namely to reduce poverty.

Having said that, the current government are trying their damndest not to have a benefits system at all, with a resulting human cost and 300 charity food banks opening to stop people starving.

now it's more like a cash cow for all and sundry.

If anything, benefits are hard to get.

Difficult to see how this relates to any sanctions should Poland decide (we won't) to leave the Union. It just seems like a lot of anti-EU rants by people who have undoubtedly enjoyed the benefits of membership.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
20 Jan 2016  #40
If anything, benefits are hard to get.

Only if you are white and British.
jon357 63 | 14,342
20 Jan 2016  #41
Only if you are white and British

Don't be silly. Ethnicity has no effect on eligibility to benefits. If you mean people seeking asylum, they get even less.
Annunciator
18 Apr 2016  #42
Poland won't be punished for its unreasonably confrontational foreign policy. Here is why
cyberguerrilla.org/blog/?p=3990
Lyzko 20 | 6,326
19 Apr 2016  #43
Poland would be foolish to exit the EU!! The only next step is to join the Euro zone:-)
jon357 63 | 14,342
19 Apr 2016  #44
The proof of the pudding is when Poland has to be a contributor as well as a recipient of infrastructure funding. One of the reasons that the EU is being very careful with their justified criticism of the regime is in order to not give them any excuses for non-payment.


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