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Poland Should Beef Up Military


Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #241
Now we have 11.02.2009 and we don't have gas.

Are you sure?
I never have heard about it...no screaming headlines in the news...nothing!
Wouldn't the polish gov throw a tantrum heard over the whole EU about it at least???

Something doesn't add up here...

Tastes differ, so what! I wonder that you did make it to a german city at all so shortly after the wars!

It's only a facade...

Yeah suuuuure..
Prince 15 | 590
11 Feb 2009 #242
Sasha

Sasha unfortunately (for you) Poland is more reliable country than Russia.

Are you sure?I never have heard about it...no screaming headlines in the news...nothing!Wouldn't the polish gove throw a tantrum heard over the whole EU about it at least???Something doesn't add up here...

We don't have whole amount of gas we have ordered.

I am not surpirsed but it is simple fact. We have problem with Russians. We pay for gas they don't sent it. We have startegic reserves but...
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #243
We don't have whole amount of gas we have ordered.

After the article you quoted it was a follow up of the Ukraine row...maybe that's why the polish gov is so quiet?
It's not the Russians but the Ukrainians who somehow can't deliver? Some pipelines aren't working, right?

Otherwise the behavior of your gov is inexplainable...if it were really the Russians fault I would believe your politicians would be up on all barricades screaming already and whole Europe would know about it!
Rafal_1981
11 Feb 2009 #244
Rafal_1981: It's only a facade...

You have build a new roads and new building. People stays the same.

There are to German nations nowadays: ossis and wessis.
There are two German states nowadays: West Germany and DDR
But I don't have to tell you that, do I?

And you are experiencing a rebirth of a nazi party - NPD
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #245
You have build a new roads and new building. People stays the same.

Erm...well I hope so!

There are to German nations nowadays: ossis and wessis

And there are Bayern and Preussen and Thüringer and Sachsen and Schwaben and Rheinländer and Protestants and Catholics and Fischköpfe...it will stay awhile...so what?

But I wouldn't call that "nations", rather "tribes". Germans were always rather a federation of tribes!
Polands "silesians" are far more a "nation".
(Isn't there a silesian movement for independence?)

And you are experiencing a rebirth of a nazi party - NPD

It's our version of your league of families!
Rafal_1981
11 Feb 2009 #246
Rafal_1981: You have build a new roads and new building. People stays the same.

I hope so too! Ossis are clumsy and sometimes they show true Germans face.
vide: NPD - far-right, pan-German nationalist and white nationalist political party.
Wessis are much more cunning :-]

Rafal_1981: And you are experiencing a rebirth of a nazi party - NPD

It's our version of your league of families!

Not at all. Our far-right political parties don't refer to NSDAP (like NPD does) - National Socialist German Workers' Party

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSDAP or to any other criminal organisation.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #247
Ossis are clumsy and sometimes they show true Germans face.

Yeah sure....you really don't know much about Germany or Ossis and Wessis, don't you!
In case you don't know it but Merkel is an Ossi, so is Ballack and many others already in top spots!
You won't call them "clumsy" or not as "cunning" as wessis???
You become a bore...just throwing around uninformed wishfull thinking!
What is it with you Poles?

PS: I find nothing wrong with german nationalism! :)
You don't have to be a neo-nazi for that (well...maybe in polish eyes...but then, who cares)

Our far-right political parties don't refer to NSDAP

Well...could have something to do with that the NSDAP was a german party?
lesser 4 | 1,311
11 Feb 2009 #248
lesser:
your beloved representative democracy

Well yes, I prefer democracy so sue me!
I really wonder why you then shoot so often against an "undemocratic" EU, it should be your cup of tea..

I don't worship democracy in any form for sure, neither other kind of political systems. Every system have its advantages and weaknesses, this is never aim itself. Anyway I do criticize the EU because they are not democrats indeed, while they always claim opposite.

Furthermore, I recognize superiority of direct democracy over representative democracy. People who participate in the first model can at least learn from their own mistakes, so quality of their choices should improve with generations. Representative democracy is a scam, people decide about nothing, learn nothing and additionally they are oppressed by growing bureaucracy.

However let back to our historic issue. Do you deny that after WWI all these national republics turned to be dictatorship regimes (mostly pathetic, might I add)?

Well Russians and Germans play in one team.

In politics there is no eternal alliances. Will you vote for PiS next time? You are a bit of Pisiak, aren't you? :)

Russia tries to reduce Polish suverenity.

Russian policy towards Poland is hostile and Russia tries to reduce Polish suverenity.

I find this comment ironic in the times when Polish elites selling out everything what left from Polish sovereignty. Go Lisbon! /sarcasm

Just out of curiosity... do you have any over there except for oil and gas?

Well, I have bough recentely Russian made compass. Good quality and quite cheap, I recommend. :)

gasp And still we are richer and more successful than most others! HOW DO WE DO THAT??? lol

Yes, the german nation is a huuuuuuuuuge success! Thank you for agreeing! heh

The appropriate place for your comments is sport forum. Over there you could write that Germany is the best over and over. :)

Why is Polish international policy based on opposing to Russia?

For the same reason why Russian foreign policy was so concentrated on the Baltic states. Politicians must turn attention of the masses away from themselves.
Rafal_1981
11 Feb 2009 #249
You become a bore...

Because I throw you some facts and you want me to write illogically to point my mistakes (like you do with the other people writing here)

Yeah sure....you really don't know much about Germany or Ossis and Wessis, don't you!

I know enough. I've one year in Germany. Have you ever been to Poland?

just throwing around uninformed wish full thinking!

I gave you facts with links to the source.

What is it with you Poles?

What is with you Germans?

I find nothing wrong with german nationalism! :)

And here's my answer
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #250
Furthermore, I recognize superiority of direct democracy over representative democracy. People who participate in the first model can at least learn from their own mistakes, so quality of their choices should improve with generations. Representative democracy is a scam, people decide about nothing, learn nothing and additionally they are oppressed by growing bureaucracy.

Well, nobody said what we have is perfect and there is always room for positive changes but it's the best what we ever had and it brought peace and prosperity for decades.

I'm not going to complain all the time, a good long look to our history of war and destruction is enough...
I prefer a reality which works (with warts and all) to ideological dreams and illusions which without doubt will bring again blood and tears to the people!

The appropriate place for your comments is sport forum. Over there you could write that Germany is the best over and over. :)

Well, I didn't start this pissing contest...quite to the contrary I just stated that Germany is a rich, economic powerhouse without being a military superpower, a fact some Poles don't seem to like so they try to tell otherwise which is funny!

So take it to them, not to me!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
11 Feb 2009 #251
But I wouldn't call that "nations", rather "tribes".

True.

(Isn't there a silesian movement for independence?)

No.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #252
Because I throw you some facts

Facts like "Ossies are clumsy"?

And here's my answer

Which would be?

PS: Just a minute back Norway shot a goal during a football test game against Germany...who do you think is more upset? Wessis or Ossis? That was 2006 in Berlin...spot the clumsy Ossi or the cunning Wessi?
Prince 15 | 590
11 Feb 2009 #253
After the article you quoted it was a follow up of the Ukraine row...maybe that's why the polish gov is so quiet?It's not the Russians but the Ukrainians who somehow can't deliver? Some pipelines aren't working, right?Otherwise the behavior of your gov is inexplainable...if it were really the Russians fault I would believe your politicians would be up on all barricades screaming already and whole Europe would know about it!

Somehow Poland doesn't have whole gas supply ordered form Russia. I don't know what kind of news do you watch but it doesn't change the facts.

Poland doesn't have gas for which Poland has paid for.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #254
Nun ja...when Russia delivers the ordered and paid for gas but it get's hindered on the way over Ukraine it changes not the facts but it is important for your interpretation of said facts as now the culprits aren't the Russians anymore...

PS: With a link to the new baltic pipeline you would have your gas already!
Rafal_1981
11 Feb 2009 #255
Facts like "Ossies are clumsy"???

You seems to forget them. No problem I will summarize them once again :-]

Few facts about Germany:

"average economic growth beween 2001-05 was only 0.6%"

Age structure:
"0-14 years: 13.8% (male 5,826,066/female 5,524,568)
15-64 years: 66.2% (male 27,763,917/female 26,739,934)
65 years and over: 20% (male 6,892,743/female 9,622,320) (2008 est.)"

source:
cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/gm.html

"Baby shock: Germans are dying out."

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4852040.stm

rebirth of a nazi party - NPD in Germany which refers to NSDAP

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany

I hope I refreshed your memory, mate :-]

That should be a Biblical sentence: When German asks for facts, he don't know what he is doing ;-D
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #256
Man you really get boring...and fact resistent as I answered these claims for you (googling would have helped you too)

read my posts again....you are a Pole but surely not THAT thick!

Maybe a biblical sentence: "Always ask for facts before attacking a German!" would be much more helpful for Poles!
Prince 15 | 590
11 Feb 2009 #257
Nun ja...when Russia delivers the ordered and paid for gas but it get's hindered on the way over Ukraine it changes not the facts but it is important for your interpretation of said facts as now the culprits aren't the Russians anymore...PS: With a link to the new baltic pipeline you would have your gas already!

The problem is that this two comapnies are owned by Gazprom and I don't want to go into detalis of agreements between two companies controled by gazprom ....

we ordered Russian gas ...

there is no gas.

This forum isn't the best place to post annything but this is simple fact.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #258
we ordered Russian gas ...

there is no gas.

Well, that's why a direct connection can be useful in cases where the pipeline is crossing foreign, unreliable territory...I told ya!
Prince 15 | 590
11 Feb 2009 #259
Russians don't accuse Ukrianians for stealing it. They claim that one of comapnies (both owned by gazprom) is out of business. What is fake.
Rafal_1981
11 Feb 2009 #260
Man you really get boring...

What? You have already forgotten?
Don't worry is a common ailment in Germany.
Eat some sausage, have a beer and enjoy the game...I have some work to do.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #261
I have some work to do.

Loser!

Eat some sausage, have a beer and enjoy the game.

I can do all that and still show you what a stupid big mouth you are!
...it's called multitasking...

PS: Well...maybe not so much "enjoying the game" as we are about to lose...

Now that would be a point to criticize Germany...we NOT ALWAYS win our games!
How about that???

This forum isn't the best place to post annything but this is simple fact.

...and I have just not enough facts to have an opinion! :(
Sasha 2 | 1,083
12 Feb 2009 #262
Poland is more reliable country than Russia.

Well... if you say so. Your word is the best proof.

Good quality and quite cheap, I recommend. :)

Nice to hear that. :) I didn't know we'd produced compasses after the USSR collapse.

For the same reason why Russian foreign policy was so concentrated on the Baltic states. Politicians must turn attention of the masses away from themselves.

Agree with the last sentence as for the first one I wouldn't have said they we concentrated but they did puff up antirussian moods in Baltic States to distract Russians from their actual problems.
lesser 4 | 1,311
23 Feb 2009 #263
lesser: German lands have long history of being organized in such mood and somehow they managed to develop nicely, better than any centralized big state.

We always manage "nicely" thank you but you also don't seem to know about our movement to unify.

I guess neither Johann Wolfgang von Goethe could understand. Apparently he is one of those stupid Germans. During my readings I discovered that his views on this subject are much closer to mine than to yours!

Goethe on National Greatness
mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=59
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
24 Feb 2009 #264
I doubt another country would have mastered the task of bringing up a half of their country up to first world standard and rebuilding it so well and bravely without shirking their other duties and still coming out on top afterwards again...

You really want to dwell on how Eastern Germany was far less populous or how you got so much from the US and it allowed you to beef your economy first ?:)

Germany did not do it alone and would not be able to do it alone, you were riding on US wallets for a long long time aka mr Marshall.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
24 Feb 2009 #265
i dunno what happened, during communist times he had a almost half a million armed forces, 3rd largest in Europe after the Soviet Union and West Germany, and in quality of equipment it was in comparison also on NATO average. Knowing Polands history and its two big neighbors, just cause of them we should have a large standing army, not 120,000 but maybe 300,000 troops, and it wouldn't be all that expensive, ending compulsory service and becoming profesional the armed forces save hundreds of millions of dollars a year, that go for training new recruits. the U.S Army saves 2 billion every year. We've had guarantees of freedom before and it didn't do any good, Britain and France pledged to help us, the didn't lift a finger in WWII. We fought for them, in Battle of Britain, in Normandy, Monte Cassino, in the east in Berlin, again the betrayed us after the war, leaving us to the Russians. And this whole American anti-missile missles deal is the same thing, it's only for Americas benefit, to protect America from Iran, North Korea, and above all Russia, it's just making us a target, if Russia nukes us or invades, the 200 man American garison will pack up and leave, leaving us alone, AGAIN.
JohnP - | 210
24 Feb 2009 #266
i dunno what happened, during communist times he had a almost half a million armed forces, 3rd largest in Europe after the Soviet Union and West Germany, and in quality of equipment it was in comparison also on NATO average.

The horror of this is that in the U.S. it was generally known that Poland was a little better equipped and weapons were a little better put together than some of her contemporaries' versions of the same things, but that had it come to a nuclear exchange it is now known that it likely would not have been U.S. nukes raining down on Poland in event of war, but Soviet. Not bashing Russians here, but that scorched earth idea is so burned into their psyche apparently that such was the intent had NATO started rolling towards Russia. One can speculate, but perhaps that is why it is generally accepted that NATO upon knowing nuclear war was imminent, would have made the first strike. If only to reduce the Soviet arsenal prior to the counterstrike. Of course this is all old history.

And this whole American anti-missile missles deal is the same thing, it's only for Americas benefit, to protect America from Iran, North Korea, and above all Russia, it's just making us a target, if Russia nukes us or invades, the 200 man American garison will pack up and leave, leaving us alone, AGAIN.

It's always good not to have to rely on other countries, one never knows what other dirty deals those countries have had to make, and at the very least they will generally look after their own interests first. This is true. That said, the first part of this statement is only true if you think only America would be targeted by those missiles, but in reality you are kidding yourself there...those above countries can reach Europe a lot faster than the U.S., additionally, the US already is fielding versions of this same technology here. However an interceptor launched from a warship off the coast of North Carolina somewhere doesn't help Europe a whole lot....does it? I do not live in Poland, but have seen this same thing happen in the U.S.; people will say "oh this would be a wonderful idea to have" but then they protest that it not be placed in their back yard, due to the attention it receives.

WRT Russia...it is apparent to me that Russia intends Poland to be its bi...well let's just say Russia seems to feel it should control what Poland does and does not do. This is evidenced by Putin wishing to retarget his missiles toward Poland, for the suggestion of installing interceptors. How childish. It is simple bullying. Obviously his bluff has been called and you know where you stand with Russia. If Russia had a military with much skill they wouldn't be so insecure, I think. They have great equipment, they just need to catch back up to the training level they once had.

The crew of an interceptor base would of course be small...after all it is purely defensive in nature, and honestly the people who would man it likely would be technicians and not shock troops. They will not be arriving (IMHO) with helicopters armed to the teeth and special operations troops, but with computers, engineers, and missile technicians.

If Poland wanted an all out joint base with the U.S. that is something Poland should bring up. I am sure there are quite a few people who would much rather be stationed there than, oh, some of the other places we get sent. Especially if we were welcome.

And hate to tell you, but as for Russia planning to nuke Poland...what's different between that and the old Soviet days? They just admit it now, whereas before it was kept a secret but Poland, Czechoslovakia etc would have been the Soviet Union's "scorched earth" and they no doubt felt they would sacrifice quite a few of you to kill the American tanks that would have been trying to roll through from E. Germany to fight them.

Such was the cold war, but no doubt you knew most of this.

John P.
McCoy 27 | 1,275
23 Mar 2009 #267
nice photo of polish crew with their brand new C-130 hercules ( one of 5 )

skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=32334556&postcount=1924 - Polish Land Forces by some guy from skyscraperCity
skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=14972987&postcount=12 - Land Armies of Europe by the same guy
z_darius 14 | 3,968
23 Mar 2009 #268
Polish Land Forces by some guy from skyscraperCity.com

and Land Armies of Europe by the same guy

requires membership to view
ksawery 1 | 9
18 Apr 2009 #269
Future aggression, for what? Signing the missile shield? I live in Poland and don't feel in the least bit threatened by Russia. I wonder why :)

well first of all you dont have to worry 'bout russia cuz america will come to the rescue cuz you know how nosey they are, bsides rusia wont attack cuz even though america has bad economy it has its army back from iraq cuz obama started pulling out troops plus with our airforce, navy, and now military russia wont stand a chance in an honorable fight with out nuclear weapons. and also it does not matter 'bout nato cuz in the Bible says that we r all going to go to war and eventually the earth will be destroyed from the great battle of Good V.S. evil, Heaven V.S. hell. there are already signs of this happening i hope u know about the four angels of death that are on the four corners of the earth, well famine is happening in africa, war has been going on since the dawn of man, plague dates back pertty far, only one left and there are signs of that too. but all is well because when Jesus comes we will be saved from this dam drama between nations and the crappy life that we have.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Apr 2009 #270
Amen to that, brotha!


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