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Poland Should Beef Up Military


Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #151
sjc.edu/PDF/studentresearch/cierocki.pdf

Wilson's points provided the starting point for answering the question. Where the points came into conflict with Polish aspirations was that much of the territory that Dmwoski wished to acquire included large populations of non-Polish citizens, among them Germans and Lithuanians. The Polish saw the issue not as how to build a new country, but how to establish an old one.
They ambitiously requested large sections of eastern Germany and
made improbable demands on western lands which now belonged to Russia
, all of which had been part of the Polish kingdom in the past.14

Your not alive because you have no life.

My...did you think long about that???
But you are correct, I didn't had a life in 1795...congrats!

Why not rather use your few left braincells and take a history book to hand for a change?
PolskaMan 2 | 147
10 Feb 2009 #152
I admit Poland took those lands [accept Gdansk]but if you little germans did take us over in 1795 it wouldnt happend.

Why not rather use your few left braincells and take a history book to hand for a change?

Why not use the still few moving muscles in your body to get off the computer?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #153
Why not use the still few moving muscles in your body to get off the computer?

Oh...no wondering about my muscles...they are moving...especially my in my stomach because I have to laugh about you so much, but thanks for asking!

but if you little germans did take us over in 1795 it wouldnt happend.

Write more clearly please..I still have no idea what you want to say with that!
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
10 Feb 2009 #154
No corridor either...no tries for compromises, no negotiations...after all the Brits and the French would be there to help you, wouldn't they!

But can you blame them? One of the reasons why Hitler was so popular among Germans was the fact that he was openly against the resolutions of the treaty of Versailles, the international act that was the basis of Poland's existence as a sovereign state, which the Germans saw as very unjust and humiliating. A statement that more than once you acknowledged on this very forum.

The exterritorial rail and highway were in fact Polish ideas from the 1920's that were abandoned later on once Hitler and his aggressive politics started to flourish, and the intervention of French and British diplomacy is just a clear sign that Poles weren’t alone in the right evaluation of the way Germany was heading in the late 1930’s.

Or are you maybe of an opinion that they all were wrong and Hitler wasn't in fact a cunning, unstable psychotic warmonger?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #155
But can you blame them? One of the reasons why Hitler was so popular among Germans was the fact that he was openly against the resolutions of the treaty of Versailles,

And can you blame them?

PS: All over Europe this Treaty is seen now as a fault and a disaster, directly leading to the rise of the Nazis and WWII, but not in Poland, that should tell you something...

In 1910, 421,029 Germans were living in the area, making up 42.5% of the population.[39]. In addition to the military personnel which was included in the population census, a number of German civil servants and merchants were introduced to the area, which influenced the population mix, according to Andrzej Chwalba[40].

By 1921 the proportion of Germans had dropped to 18.8% (175,771). Over the next decade, the German population decreased by another 70,000 to a share of 9.6%. [41]

German historian Stefan Wolff claims that the actions of Polish state officials after the corridor's establishment followed "a course of assimilation and oppression".[47]

Filios1 8 | 1,336
10 Feb 2009 #156
All over Europe this Treaty is seen now as a fault and a disaster but not in Poland

Poland would have eventually gained independence, again... it was only a matter of time. Versailles Treaty sped the process up.
It would have been impossible to hold a 20+ million ethnic group down for so long.. I'm sure even you can appreciate that BB.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #157
It would have been impossible to hold a 20+ million ethnic group down for so long.. I'm sure even you can appreciate that BB.

Who knows...after all the Germans never were into ethnic cleansing so much before...
Poles lived together with Germans and Austrians for Centuries...but once Poles took over it was bye bye Germans!

Wasn't it Dmowski who dreamed already before WWII of a only-Poles Poland???
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
10 Feb 2009 #158
PS: All over Europe this Treaty is seen now as a fault and a disaster but not in Poland, that should tell you something...

This treaty gave polish people an independent state. Should we cry about it?

Besides, I remember that in a topic about Kosovo and in a different one about Abkhazia and South Osetia you were clearly and strongly for nations having the right to have their own independent and sovereign states. Are you of a different opinion when it comes to Poland and Poles?

When other countries arte concerned than certainly yes, but when we talk about German Reich than it's a disaster, eh? Some double standards there Bratwurts?
PolskaMan 2 | 147
10 Feb 2009 #159
Oh...no wondering about my muscles...they are moving...especially my in my stomach because I have to laugh about you so much, but thanks for asking!

If you watched russel peters you would lose that whole belly of yours!
lesser 4 | 1,311
10 Feb 2009 #160
PS: All over Europe this Treaty is seen now as a fault and a disaster but not in Poland, that should tell you something...

Well... Poland should be offered Eastern Prussia and Gdańsk as well. This would stop plans of German expansion to the east in longer run. British PM is to blame here, he considered Poland to be French ally... While the French are responsible for too soft policy towards Germany after Versailles.

Wasn't it Dmowski who dreamed already before WWII of a only-Poles Poland???

General rule of treaty of Versailles was to create national states. Mainly because of Wilson.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #161
This treaty gave polish people an independent state. Should we cry about it?

Well...it was a huge helper for some 50 Million dead some years later...the rest of Europe
surely did cry about it!

Are you of a different opinion when it comes to Poland and Poles?

As I said before, the problem wasn't that you got your independence but that you wanted it at the costs of the Germans and you wanted even more and even more...a huge country without any Germans at all and that in a region which was heavily mixed and partly overwhelming german for nearly a millennia!

Some talking, negotiating and compromising would had gone a long way....but how did your Smygli (sp?) say: "In one week in Berlin!" or "Germany can't avoid war even if she wanted to!"

But I trust nobody told you about that in history lessons in school either, am I right?

When other countries arte concerned than certainly yes, but when we talk about German Reich than it's a disaster, eh? Some double standards there Bratwurts?

No...I compare Kosovo with Danzig and the Serbs taking over again.
Even as they would be only a tiny minority to 97 percent Albos...That's how it was back then..

Nooooooooo....it's always the poor, poor Poles against the bad german barbarians, right? Right!

Well... Poland should be offered Eastern Prussia and Gdańsk as well.

You have it now and you should stop your whining about the war already!
You wanted it all, you got it and you paid a price...period!

While the French are responsible for too soft police towards Germany after Versailles.

You're an idiot lesser and now I know that the EU will be fine...
lesser 4 | 1,311
10 Feb 2009 #162
You have it now and you should stop your whining about the war already!

The biggest amount of WWII whiners is in the Germany, they provoke this discussion in Poland and the Czech Republic.
PolskaMan 2 | 147
10 Feb 2009 #163
Hes to afraid to admit anything,
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #164
The biggest amount of WWII whiners is in the Germany, they provoke this discussion in Poland and the Czech Republic.

Heh...wrong again!Just take a look about the whine-threads and who starts them, surely no German!

Oh...wait...if it isn't WWII it's surely Grünwald! How could I forget..

Some of you live on that!
PolskaMan 2 | 147
10 Feb 2009 #165
Where do neo nazis and skin heads come from??

germany and russia

they still think the wars on

Please just shut up and dont talk back because you just mix up alot of nonscence
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
10 Feb 2009 #166
As I said before, the problem wasn't that you got your independence but that you wanted it at the costs of the Germans and you wanted even more and even more...a huge country without any Germans at all and that in a region which was heavily mixed and partly overwhelming german for nearly a millennia!

Right, poles should had have their independence, but ony at the cost of Russians. Only then it is fair. :)
For your information, the lands that Poland got after the WWI were predominantly inhabit by Poles, with an exception of Danzig which actually, in contrary what you have numerously written here on PF, wasn't added to Poland. It was granted a status of a free city, neither under Polish nor German jurisdiction. The post WWII shift of PL-GER boundaries is a totally different story.
lesser 4 | 1,311
10 Feb 2009 #167
lesser:
While the French are responsible for too soft police towards Germany after Versailles.

You're an idiot lesser and now I know that the EU will be fine...

Please elaborate your position, because this personal attack dont tell us much why you disagree with me. Be sure that I can defend my statement.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #168
*groans*

Study some more..the status of a free city was running out and it was then as the Poles pointed the gun on the heads of the Germans....become Poles ore leave!

The Treaty of Versailles, which had severed Danzig and surrounding villages from Germany, now required that the newly-formed state had its own citizenship, based on residency.
German inhabitants lost their German nationality with the creation of the Free City, but were given the right within the first two years of the state's existence to re-obtain it; however, if they did so they were required to leave their property and make their residence outside of the Free State of Danzig area in the remaining part of Germany.

PolskaMan 2 | 147
10 Feb 2009 #169
Poles pointed the gun on the heads of the Germans....become Poles ore leave!

The answer to Poles and Jews in 1939 was *BANG*

Just shut up
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #170
Please elaborate your position, because this personal attack dont tell us much why you disagree with me. Be sure that I can defend my statement.

That the french were to "soft" is just ridiculous but then you believe the whole EU a bunch of unskilled conspirationalists....so what to expect.

And I'm losing interst in a a debate with you honestly...

Please just shut up and dont talk back

Erm...you know that this is a talk board, don't you?
From which cave are you?

To bad if others have a better knowledge about the topic and a better command of the board language...but you don't HAVE to be here, you know? Ugah ugah
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544
10 Feb 2009 #171
But I trust nobody told you about that in history lessons in school either, am I right?

Well it certainly looks like they have covered this subject thoroughly on your history lessons.

Do you honestly think that once Hitler would got what he wanted from Poland , he would stop making any more claims? Or, maybe satisfied with the outcome of the negotiations he would like to see Greater Poland and the parts of Silesia that were joined to Poland as a result of a plebiscite, back in Reich?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
10 Feb 2009 #172
No, not really! He was a mad man and I doubt he really gave a shit about the Germans there, he used them as a tool.

But the feelings of the german folks was real, he rode on it to power!
Without that treaty he wouldn't had came to power in the first place, I'm sure of that...

But this treaty gave you the independence...so what now?
lesser 4 | 1,311
11 Feb 2009 #173
That the french were to "soft" is just ridiculous

Really?
How much reparations German state paid?
Unwillingness to confirm Polish western border raised German hopes up.
Ruined state was allowed to arm itself very quickly, despite they saw radical Hitler.
German army crossed demilitarized zone and nothing happened.
Later no reaction about Austria and selling out Czechoslovakia.

Everything lead to WWII.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #174
Later no reaction about Austria and selling out Czechoslovakia.

AFTER Hitler became chancellor you forgot to add...around 1/3 of the Germans voted for his party and alot of their promises were about this Treaty and his fight against it!

Then he set to work...
PolskaMan 2 | 147
11 Feb 2009 #175
To bad if others have a better knowledge about the topic and a better command of the board language...but you don't HAVE to be here, you know? Ugah ugah

Talk all you want just dont talk about ww2 because you dont know nothing about it.
lesser 4 | 1,311
11 Feb 2009 #176
around 1/3 of the Germans voted for his party and alot of their promises were about this Treaty and his fight against it!

German state lost the war, so if they expected a reward then indeed must feel disappointed. At that time Germany should be divided to many small duties. Local dukes would not allow people like Hitler to spread their BS.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
11 Feb 2009 #177
At that time Germany should be divided to many small duties.

What...independence and self determination for the Poles but not for the Germans???
Hypocrite...it's people like you who made voting for Hitler an interesting alternative..

PS: And another disappointment...it was not a unified Germany but PRUSSIA who handed you your bloodiest defeats and your partitions time and time again...already forgotten? You want it back???

God...your history lessons really sucks!
IronsE11 2 | 442
11 Feb 2009 #178
Talk all you want just dont talk about ww2 because you dont know nothing about it.

Oh dear.
JulietEcho 3 | 100
11 Feb 2009 #179
Poland needs to beef up it's military and get armed to the teeth to protect itself against future agression by Russia.

Maybe read first about so called Russian "aggression" from somewhere else that fox and cnn... American aggression on Iraq was highly democratic in return....right? Poland needs to sit down, proclaim itself neutral like Nordic countries and concentrate on generating a welfare for its own citizens versus trying to bring its rotten, corrupted, south american style "democracy" to other countries, namely Afghanistan. Poland will always be weak, no matter how much you spend on military, compared to such as superpower as Russia, concentrate on how you can effectively trade with them...
lesser 4 | 1,311
11 Feb 2009 #180
What...independence and self determination for the Poles but not for the Germans???

First of all I'm not great supporter of national self-determination in general. However these German duties would be independent and ruled by legitimate rulers. German lands have long history of being organized in such mood and somehow they managed to develop nicely, better than any centralized big state. So, how could you suspect that I wish bad for Germans? You prefer higher living standard of average citizen or perhaps care only about being European military superpower?

Today I support the idea of one but highly decentralized Polish state. One state, just because of external security.

Hypocrite...it's people like you who made voting for Hitler an interesting alternative..

If Germany would be divided then they would not have opportunity to vote.

it was not a unified Germany but PRUSSIA who handed you your bloodiest defeats and your partitions time and time again...already forgotten?

Ever heard about Austro-Hungarian Empire or Russian Empire? Anyway I blame Polish aristocracy for this outcome.


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