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Poland Should Beef Up Military


Lotnik767 3 | 145
9 Feb 2009 #31
I think that Poland is doing every thing they can to be prepared for any war and to prevent it! Poland trains soldiers well and they are in a process in modernizing their forces! I don't think US and Europe would help Poland out if they got invaded by Russians or any other country!! No one helped us in WW2 and we had all kinds of treaties signed and look what happen don’t be naïve people, politicians will do every thing they can to make things look nice on paper, and today I think it's the same as it was in the past! If Poland doesn’t defend her self then no one will help her! And I think Poland is a much much, much stronger country than Georgia and I don't think that Russians would be that dumb to start a war again with Poland! But GOD forbid if Russia invited Poland then I strongly believe that Poles from around the world would come together with support for each other and Poland! I think we have good Army, Air Force, Navy and Special Forces that do a great job. But I still believe that we need more Planes tanks and ship another amount of what we currently have!! GOD BLESS POLAND
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #32
Russia is moving in a strongly undemocratic direction and has used military aggression against Georgia. Poland needs to beef up it's military and get armed to the teeth to protect itself against future agression by Russia.

You have interesting sense of humour. Poleamerican and Lotnik, I think moving to Poland or reading non-american media would moderate your views.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #33
Yeah, I think it became apparent that the aggressors were Georgia and different parties were trying to make Russia look bad. Now they have drawn attention to the truth and will build a base in Abkhazia. Well done Russia :)
Pinching Pete - | 558
9 Feb 2009 #34
Well done Russia :)

Yet in many of your posts you have convicted Russia. You are a simple bastard.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #35
Yeah, I think it became apparent that the aggressors were Georgia and different parties were trying to make Russia look bad. Now they have drawn attention to the truth and will build a base in Abkhazia. Well done Russia :)

I find it naive to put it mildly when people say about the future agression of Russia against Poland as if it is something inevitable. Weird. That would be stupid. However I should admit that american influence in Europe adds fuel to the fire.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #36
It's all paranoia, Sasha. It stems from the hatred inculcated/instilled by the KaczyƄski regime, the predecessor to the present one. Let's hope any incumbents aren't that stupid.

America stirred it up in Georgia. What I am concerned about, though it's way in the distant future, is the 2017 expiry of the lease with Ukraine. Russia is adamant that they will retain control over it.

Any thoughts on this, Sasha?
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #37
Yet in many of your posts you have convicted Russia

Me either. So what? Bastard too?

America stirred it up in Georgia

Yes, because it's the only way for the pipe bypassing Russia from that region.

Russia is adamant that they will retain control over it.

Well at least that's what the current power wants. Now our media activelly convincing people that Ukraine goes bankrupt.
Pinching Pete - | 558
9 Feb 2009 #38
Me either. So what? Bastard too?

yes , you are a bastard too.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
9 Feb 2009 #39
I think moving to Poland or reading non-american media would moderate your views.

The Kaczinskies and the Bushies are gone...(or lost power at least).
People were fed up with their confrontation policy...a new thawing is the mood.
Bad times for warmongers on all sides!
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #40
yes , you are a bastard too.

Spasibo, Dr. Zoidberg!

The Kaczinskies and the Bushies are gone...(or lost power at least).

True, but I don't think it would any change the mainstream of their newsblocks.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #41
Sorry Pete, it's called not having the blinkers on and seeing things in black and white. Sometimes I agree with what Russia does, sometimes I don't. The same goes for any other country you care to mention. Yes, even Scotland.
JohnP - | 210
9 Feb 2009 #42
And yet....just as the paranoid alarmists were saying on here a year ago predicted....now that Russia controls most of Europe's fuel...she is using it as leverage, by turning off the flow, until things go her way...

I don't know if Poland needs to worry about Russia invading or not, but Sasha, it is interesting that in your previous post,

I find it naive to put it mildly when people say about the future agression of Russia against Poland as if it is something inevitable. Weird. That would be stupid. However I should admit that american influence in Europe adds fuel to the fire.

(emphasis added) it almost betrays a logic of "well, we're angry at the Americans, so we might invade Poland". Hopefully that is not the point you were trying to make, but ultimately if a country is an ally of the U.S. why do Russians care? Russia is, or was, or could be...an ally of the U.S. as well. Just as friends do not agree on everything, neither do nations have to. Personally...I still do not think Georgia was the big aggressor in this past fray; I just think they were the loser in it, and were Russia stronger, I imagine perhaps US troops would have been sent also-but because Russia is weak (conventionally) the big minds all know it would turn into a nuclear exchange (an area Russia is NOT weak on) over territories Russia had already taken over in everything but name.

It is naive considering Poland's past history, for her to allow her armed forces to wither. A strong Poland should not be seen as a threat anymore than a strong Russia.

I do believe history repeats itself. We have newer technologies, but the same human nature, ultimately, and politics just as crooked as in 1939.

Just the Neville Chamberlains of the world have different names.

John P.
Pinching Pete - | 558
9 Feb 2009 #43
Sometimes I agree with what Russia does

Russia is chief exporter of body odor.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
9 Feb 2009 #44
she is using it as leverage, by turning off the flow, until things go her way...

Yeah...till she got the money for her goods...how horrible!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #45
Let me guess Pete, you advocate the sending of American troops into Poland to help out, right? Is that your idea of beefing up the military?
JohnP - | 210
9 Feb 2009 #46
Yeah...till she got the money for her goods...how horrible!

Possibly...still, it set a precedent. There are other ways to blackmail nations besides letting them know you control their very lifeblood.
I guess if some country figures out how to control air, scuba tanks will get more expensive...

John P.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #47
Russia is, or was, or could be...an ally of the U.S. as well.

I disagree. Two Empires can't be allies. We(you and me I mean) may be friends, I have many American friends but two our governments - never. And perhaps we will both be able to see it better, when the arctic shelf's developed. The basic american interest here is the oil and they always forget while in Europe the old saying "when at Rome, do as the Romans do".

well, we're angry at the Americans, so we might invade Poland"

No... I would apply different logic. The American missile system located in Poland might shake the piece in the region.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #48
The peace will likely be disrupted. The Russian inspectors were offered full access to the facilities. What's the problem here, Sasha?
JohnP - | 210
9 Feb 2009 #49
I disagree. Two Empires can't be allies. We(you and me I mean) may be friends, I have many American friends but two our governments - never. And perhaps we will both be able to see it better, when the arctic shelf's developed. The basic american interest here is the oil and they always forget while in Europe the old saying "when at Rome, do as the Romans do".

Interesting point. I don't completely disagree, although from watching Russia's actions it would seem Russia's interest is the oil...(also?) so there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference. I do think there need be some difference between the nations, however, otherwise what would be the point.

No... I would apply different logic. The American missile system located in Poland might shake the piece in the region.

There is of course a counter to every argument. One could also say that while the missile shield in Poland is a counter to Iranian threats primarily, Russia has brand new ICBMs that is has recently tested...which is a far cry beyond *starting* a shield. Russia's protests and threats against Poland "IF she installs a shield" sound if anything like all the more reason to build one, rather than not. Generals discussing re-aiming Russian missiles at Poland....all because of some interceptors...sounds to me a lot like someone saying "I'll shoot you if you buy a bullet resistant vest". Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems our politicians (all of them, not just yours or mine) are more petty than the common folk they are supposed to be leading.

John P.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #50
I think the difference is that it's not an all encompassing shield. Russia could fire a fraction of its arsenal and still pose serious questions to Poland. America will break international law again. I really don't think Russia will attack but, if they do, don't count on America to leap to the defence of Poland. I know what the writing says but...
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #51
although from watching Russia's actions it would seem Russia's interest is the oil...(also?)

Of course, especially considering that putin has no idea on what else he could sell. Well... I forgot about gas...

John, we already discussed the issue about missile shield in Poland and I'm afraid I can't state anything new on that, but as for Iran - Russia's worried more and more about the Iran working on the intercontinental ballistic missile. Believe me Russia doesn't need another pain in neck however I don't see any other way to handle the issue except for diplomatic. Let's face the fact: if Iran would build the missile, Poland shield couldn't help. Well... there's one more way - to invade Iran right-away but this hardly possible. I don't think the world society will allow to the US another Iraq.

The Russian inspectors were offered full access to the facilities. What's the problem here, Sasha?

Excuse me Sean I've lost track of our discussion. Are you talking about Ukraine now?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #52
First point, the Ukrainian lease til 2017. It was a 20-year lease, signed fair and square. Why does the Russian govt insist on not letting it go?

Second point, Russian inspectors were invited to inspect the installation and operation of the shield. Isn't that a good enough guarantee in itself?
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #53
First point, the Ukrainian lease til 2017. It was a 20-year lease, signed fair and square. Why does the Russian govt insist on not letting it go?

Oh... you mean the Port Sevastopol. It's about the only significant Russian naval base in the south, the largest in Black Sea. Nobody wants to lessen its military strength.

Second point, Russian inspectors were invited to inspect the installation and operation of the shield. Isn't that a good enough guarantee in itself?

Sean, imagine that there's a crazy professor experimenting with radioactive materials on your neighbourhood. You can come to his place and stare at his experiments as long as you want but this doesn't guarantee your safety.
David_18 68 | 982
9 Feb 2009 #54
Poland should't waste a single euro to build up the army. It's just waste of money and i don't believe it will be any new war. Since almost every continent has nuclear weapons who could wipe out the planet of earth in less then 1 hour.

I believe in Economic warfare, maybe Poland should spend money on it's economy instead?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Feb 2009 #55
Isn't it the case that it is Ukrainian and to be returned to them 8 years from now?

Surely that's the best guarantee that can be provided, inspections? What else would you propose?
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Feb 2009 #56
Poland should't waste a single euro to build up the army. It's just waste of money and i don't believe it will be any new war. Since almost every continent has nuclear weapons who could wipe out the planet of earth in less then 1 hour.

I believe in Economic warfare, maybe Poland should spend money on it's economy instead?

Very nice, constructive and healthy point. All those "shields" are only pretexts for intrigues. Nowadays in fact attacking facilities "a head taller" than those safeguarding.
McCoy 27 | 1,275
9 Feb 2009 #57
don't believe it will be any new war

List of wars involving Poland: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_wars

from the beginning Poland had to fight every fuckin century. why should we expect that we are living in different/better times? we should be ready and strong.

Next time post a link to the website and quote some text. No more copy/paste McCoy.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
9 Feb 2009 #58
from the beginning Poland had to fight every fuckin century.

It takes two to tango (or to fight).
Don't present Poland as the ever oh so innocent virgin...you could never say no to a good brawl!

And look at some posters - already wishing for "beefing up" and wanting to be "prepared" again....can't wait...I remember very well how polish poster showed off proudly pics from polish troops in Iraq, feeling so "cool" about it.

Don't try to sell us that you are a peace loving people contrary to all your blood thirsty neighbours....pluuuueeeease!
Your problem is only that most of your neighbours are by far stronger than you are and that you get your ass handed to you more often than not, that's all.
David_18 68 | 982
9 Feb 2009 #59
List of wars involving Poland:

I don't believe they used nuclear weapons at that time ;)
McCoy 27 | 1,275
9 Feb 2009 #60
oh, cut your crap krautboy. if our neighbours were far stronger we would be speaking russian or barking shwabian. go and sell your bullshit elsewhere. jebane niemiaszki.


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