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The Bauman Affair: A Clear and Present Danger to Democracy and Academic Freedom in Poland


milky 13 | 1,657
14 Aug 2013 #1
Suffice it to say that I admire and support my Polish friends who invited, listened and critically and deliberately considered Bauman's talk, whether or not they agree with him (as by the way, I don't on many issues of form and substance). I am disturbed by the problems my friends and colleagues face. There is a clear and present danger, and it is not the specter of communism.
Nile 1 | 154
14 Aug 2013 #2
and it is not the specter of communism.

He is clearly a Communist. Social Europe Journal where he is publishing his articles is part of the Guardian network.
OP milky 13 | 1,657
14 Aug 2013 #3
He is clearly a Communist.

and so is Slavoj Zizek and thousands of intellectuals.
Nile 1 | 154
16 Aug 2013 #4
If that is a witty reply I must confess it went straight over my head - was it important?
I understand that he is a Communist after all.
Barney 15 | 1,476
16 Aug 2013 #5
He is clearly a Communist

Nonsense
Would you like to quote him calling on the proletariat to seize all means of production?

Calling someone a communist because you disagree with them instead of forming an argument is very silly.
Nile 1 | 154
16 Aug 2013 #6
Calling someone a communist because you disagree with them instead of forming an argument is very silly.

I cannot agree with him or disagree, his articles are better than sleeping tablets.
He is writing for Journal which is part of the Guardian network. A newspaper with a certain sinister agenda.
Barney 15 | 1,476
16 Aug 2013 #7
The topic is not about the Guardian, the topic is about labelling people who the far right disagree with as Stalinist or Communist and using the threat of violence instead of debate.
Meathead 5 | 470
16 Aug 2013 #8
Suffice it to say that I admire and support my Polish friends who invited, listened and critically and deliberately considered Bauman's talk, whether or not they agree with him (as by the way, I don't on many issues of form and substance). I am disturbed by the problems my friends and colleagues face. There is a clear and present danger, and it is not the specter of communism.

Poland needs to come to terms with its past. It's not going to be easy or quick.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,537
16 Aug 2013 #9
I am disturbed by the problems my friends and colleagues face. There is a clear and present danger, and it is not the specter of communism.

Many people are even more disturbed by the specter of your opinions on the Polish property market that we must face here.
smurf 39 | 1,981
16 Aug 2013 #10
He is clearly a Communist. Social Europe Journal where he is publishing his articles is part of the Guardian network.

Great argument, you seem to really know what you're talking about.
Harry
16 Aug 2013 #11
Nile: He is clearly a Communist. Social Europe Journal where he is publishing his articles is part of the Guardian network.

Great argument, you seem to really know what you're talking about.

I'm certainly entirely convinced now that I'm read Nile's arguments and the justification therefor.

Poland needs to come to terms with its past. It's not going to be easy or quick.

It's not going to be quick and it's not going to be easy, because it's not going to happen: denial of the past in which Poland or Poles did anything which could be considered as 'wrong' is one of the most common traits among Poles.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
16 Aug 2013 #12
It's not going to be quick and it's not going to be easy, because it's not going to happen: denial of the past in which Poland or Poles did anything which could be considered as 'wrong' is one of the most common traits among Poles.

Indeed, you can notice on these very forums - bad Communist Poles are labelled "Soviets".
Harry
16 Aug 2013 #13
Either that or "Jewish".
Nile 1 | 154
16 Aug 2013 #14
The topic is not about the Guardian, the topic is about labelling people who the far right disagree with as Stalinist or Communist and using the threat of violence instead of debate.

It has been debated here: https://polishforums.com/news/professor-zygmund-bauman-commie-jew-shouted-66727/

There is no doubt that he is a Communist and his connection to a certain newspaper confirms that assessment.

"Last month, the biggest German daily, the 'Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung', published an article in which Bogdan Musial, a Polish historian, revealed renowned Polish-British sociologist Zygmunt Bauman, one of the prophets of postmodernism and author of sociological bestsellers, once worked as an agent for the Stalinist military secret service", notes Andreas Hess, a senior lecturer in sociology.

eurotopics.net/en/home/presseschau/archiv/results/archiv_article/ARTICLE16141-Sociologist-Zygmunt-Bauman-s-hidden-stalinist-past

On June 22nd of this year, in the city of Wroclaw, a lecture by Zygmunt Bauman was aggressively disrupted by a group of neo-fascists.

Whoever wrote this article has no idea about democracy and the same can be said about you and your friends. Hecklers are integral part of democracy.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler

deliberatelyconsidered.com/about/about-jeffrey-c-goldfarb/

Typical musings of modern Communist.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
16 Aug 2013 #15
There is no doubt that he is a Communist and his connection to a certain newspaper confirms that assessment.

No, there is considerable doubt, given that Communism ended in Poland over 20 years ago and that very very few people identify as Communists today. If we want to label people according to their former beliefs, then we must also be mindful of the many individuals on the "right" in Poland who owe their careers and livelihood to their Communist past.

Hecklers are integral part of democracy.

In the correct forum. Turning up at a lecture (that you had no right to attend) to abuse a professor is not heckling.

I suppose you'd be the first to howl should the "antifa" take to abusing right wing politicians at every single opportunity.
Harry
16 Aug 2013 #16
There is no doubt that he is a Communist and his connection to a certain newspaper confirms that assessment.

And which newspaper might that be?

Whoever wrote this article has no idea about democracy and the same can be said about you and your friends. Hecklers are integral part of democracy.

Democracy is no more who can shout loudest than it is about who can be the most violent.
Nile 1 | 154
17 Aug 2013 #17
Would you like to quote him calling on the proletariat to seize all means of production?

Would you agree that he is a person who is regarded as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes?
Barney 15 | 1,476
17 Aug 2013 #18
There is no doubt that he is a Communist and his connection to a certain newspaper confirms that assessment.

I don't care if he is a communist now or in the past it's not a reason to threaten violence.

Would you agree that he is a person who is regarded as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes?

Again I don't care, if his opinions are so silly they can be easily destroyed through debate.

Perhaps a list of people and topics that are forbidden would be a good thing but I would need to be convinced before agreeing to such a thing.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
17 Aug 2013 #19
Would you agree that he is a person who is regarded as supporting politically leftist or subversive causes?

Would you perhaps like to explain, under which Polish law, why supporting a left wing cause is illegal?

I don't care if he is a communist now or in the past it's not a reason to threaten violence.

Absolutely. We only need to look at Berlin in the early 30's to see that threatening violence because of political beliefs is a non-starter.

Perhaps a list of people and topics that are forbidden would be a good thing but I would need to be convinced before agreeing to such a thing.

Certainly the powers that be in Poland have seen no reason to censor this individual from speaking in public.
Nile 1 | 154
18 Aug 2013 #20
I don't care if he is a communist now or in the past it's not a reason to threaten violence.

As far as I understood the issue there haven't been a slightest indication of violence nor any threat of violence.
A lecture has been disturbed by a group of hecklers, that is all.
Barney 15 | 1,476
19 Aug 2013 #21
The academic was shouted down but the effect was to silence people who would normally condemn such antics. It's this malevolent threat (of violence) that the author is concerned about and how far it has seeped into public life in Poland.

Heckling is part of the hustings but in the TV age hustings rarely happen, hecklers can ask the questions that the public want answered when the media don't ask the questions but this was an academic event where heckling has no place.
Nile 1 | 154
19 Aug 2013 #22
The academic was shouted down but the effect was to silence people who would normally condemn such antics. It's this malevolent threat (of violence) that the author is concerned about and how far it has seeped into public life in Poland.

I doubt they care about his academic career and rather than an academic they shouted down The Internal Security Corps major involved in the crimes against humanity and a traitor to the nation. The author is concerned because academic in qestion is his fellow traveler and colleague not because he give a damn about Poland's public life.

this was an academic event where heckling has no place.

An event opened to the public and although I can agree with you that heckling has no place in academic lectures, there is always an exception to the rule.
Barney 15 | 1,476
19 Aug 2013 #23
I doubt they care about his academic career

Are there any other people or topics that should be forbidden?
Nile 1 | 154
19 Aug 2013 #24
None as long as people own up to the truth.
NSZ
1 Oct 2013 #25
Any traits about other people you'd like to share with us? What are you a self-hating Pole or a paid stooge of other ethnic groups? Either way, don't you have anything better to do?

Nile
For Bauman, Wolinska, Schechter, owning up to the truth would be rather implicatory. That the truth may come out is and has always been their greatest "Fear"
Barney 15 | 1,476
1 Oct 2013 #26
Any traits about other people you'd like to share with us?

I assume this was addressed to me...

How can you get to a certain age and have zero baggage?

How many people have always held the "correct views"? I would be very wary of someone who has never been through a process lived life or changed opinions.


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