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Poland's atheist loonies have had their 5 minutes


jonni 16 | 2,485
7 Jan 2011 #61
Chances are you also heard abut another Christian, known a Mother Teresa

Chances are, Derek, you also heard abut (sic) another Christian, known a (sic) General Franco. Or Jozef Fritzl, or King Albert of the Belgians, or Torquemada, or Cecil Rhodes or many, many more..

But none of those, or Mother Theresa (not herself uncontroversial) either, are probably known to Wildrover.

For every famous example of a good person who is a shining example of the human response to faith, you can find many more who paint very different pictures. As Mother Theresa said herself, responding to criticism that she'd been performing pastoral ministry with some pretty vile right-wing South American dictators, "perhaps they need our prayers more than most".

Atheism however isn't as indulgent - people have to take responsibility for their actions and not blame it on the fallen state of mankind.

Whats with all these Christians , Mormons and other assorted doormat vermin that come round telling me how great their god is ,and wanting me to join them..?? I know where your dam church is , if i want to join i will come to you...!!!

Their holy books tell them to do it. It also tells tham to worship in private, not mix linen and cotton and kill witches, but never mind, why not just ignore the difficult bits...
z_darius 14 | 3,968
7 Jan 2011 #62
Whats with all these Christians , Mormons and other assorted doormat vermin that come round telling me how great their god is

actually, not all Christian denominations have this doormat vermin policy.
I haven't seen or experienced even one example of that policy used by RC, or Lutherans (just some of the examples).

I know where your dam church is , if i want to join i will come to you...!!!

I only had two attempts of visits by mormons in the last 20+ years. In both cases the encounters were very brief. In that same time I had literally literally dozens of visits at my door and hundreds by phone from travel agencies, charities (real and fake) electric power distributors, natural power distributors, political candidates, cosmetics gurus etc. Should I be ticked of with electricity and should I stop using soap?
wildrover 98 | 4,451
7 Jan 2011 #63
God and the devil do not exist as mythical beings...they are in the heart of every man...

Yeah..stop using soap...it will ensure the doorstep salesmen do not hang around very long...
jonni 16 | 2,485
7 Jan 2011 #64
Should I be ticked of with electricity and should I stop using soap?

No, because soap and electricity are real. With hard, measurable and irrefutable proof. The mythical cosmology asserted and promulgated by religions, horoscope fans, sci-fi novels etc remains unproven and is therefore best disregarded as 'truth' and only indulged providing it isn't harmful to those who aren't interested in it.

Unless you have some proof tucked away that one or other god exists, maybe Ganesh, or Jehovah, or Artemis or Freya?
Bzibzioh
7 Jan 2011 #65
Unless you have some proof tucked away that one or other god exists

If you can prove it - it’s science, not faith.
jonni 16 | 2,485
7 Jan 2011 #66
And if you can't prove it, it probably isn't there.

Everything is either provable or refutable. Since in thousands of years of religions, the only things offered by way of proof of the existence of gods are (in the case of Christianity) stained fabric, vials of dried blood that mysteriously liquefy, collections of rusty 'nails from the true cross' (so many the poor guy they killed must have looked like a hedgehog), a self-lighting fire in Jerusalem, that only works when nobody's watching the Patriarch and a disembodied voice in the vatican on Good Friday (until the technique was exposed) - and of course unexplained cures, which happen outside religion too. Religious organisations were great at fooling pre-industrial peasants, but Europe-wide religious observance figures suggests that people aren't so naive nowadays.

Besides that - what about all the other 'faiths' Buddhism (which I think is still the world's biggest) has more believers that Christianity. But Buddhists have a profound faith that there is no god - who's right?

So to say "oh, it's a matter of faith, neither I nor anyone else have any proof whatsoever, but hey, who cares - I believe it so everyone else should", is not only nonsense but actually bizarre.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
7 Jan 2011 #67
There is much more evidence for the existance of little green men in flying saucers....but i don,t see any mass worship of them...?
Bzibzioh
7 Jan 2011 #68
If you can prove it - it’s science, not faith.

And if you can't prove it, it probably isn't there.

Your comprehension skills sucks.
jonni 16 | 2,485
7 Jan 2011 #69
As does your grammar plus your understanding of a very simple concept. Impossible to prove, identify, refute or measure and it isn't there.

Hey, next time you get one of those nasty infections, instead of antibiotics from a nice modern clinic, why not consult a shaman or witchdoctor. They have faith too.
poland_
7 Jan 2011 #70
I would love to send him to meet his god...

An eye for an eye,never had you down as jewish, Wildrover.

I have no doubt there are some good people who are Christians , its just that i ain,t met them... Anyone who makes a point of telling me they are a Christian has already wound me up the wrong way , Religion should be a personal thing

You are going to find it hard pressed to get anyone to reveal they are Christian to you, when they realize they are being sent off to the lions den.

Atheism however isn't as indulgent - people have to take responsibility for their actions and not blame it on the fallen state of mankind.

Agnostic, atheist or Christian, you should be prepared to take responsibility for your own actions. If you have chosen to live your life by a set of rules, that is the basis of law then that can only be good.

Besides that - what about all the other 'faiths' Buddhism (which I think is still the world's biggest)has more believers that Christianity

People of all faiths, have one thing in common they believe in a higher power. Atheists believe in ... ???
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
7 Jan 2011 #71
If you can prove it - it’s science, not faith.

True. Science wants the existence of God proven. If it were, would God be considered science?
jonni 16 | 2,485
7 Jan 2011 #72
Agnostic, atheist or Christian, you should be prepared to take responsibility for your own actions. If you have chosen to live your life by a set of rules, that is the basis of law then that can only be good.

I quite agree, and with the exception of the old Soviet Union (which for the most part lost interest in the end), can you think of any examples of agnostics or atheists telling people who are not agnostic or atheist what they should or shouldn't do behind the bedroom door or in hospital on the basis of their atheism or agnosticism?

And do you think every religion's "set of rules" being "the basis of law" "can only be good"?

People of all faiths, have one thing in common they believe in a higher power. Atheists believe in ... ???

They don't - that's the whole point. Nor do they prevent others believing or practising whatever religion they might choose to follow, providing it doesn't harm society.

True. Science wants the existence of God proven. If it were, would God be considered science?

Untrue and no it doesn't. Science doesn't "want" anything. But if the existance of one or more gods (and lets face it, there are enough to choose from) was ever proven, then it would be interesting. But despite thousands of years of gods and their followers nothing has been proven, and that is not without a huge search.
Bzibzioh
7 Jan 2011 #73
True. Science wants the existence of God proven.

It's really a basic concept. I don't see how someone can't grasp it. Faith - science.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
7 Jan 2011 #74
The irony is, if God's existence were actually proven, it would mean religion is in fact science and no longer faith...
Bzibzioh
7 Jan 2011 #75
Exactly my point.
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
7 Jan 2011 #76
The irony is, if God's existence were actually proven, it would mean religion is in fact science and no longer faith...

I heard he left a paper trail... (or at least a couple of fossilized footprints!)
freebird 3 | 532
7 Jan 2011 #77
I don't understand why you guys are so determined to prove anything about it. Why not just accept the fact that some people believe in God and some don't?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
7 Jan 2011 #78
I heard he left a paper trail... (or at least a couple of fossilized footprints!)

His carbon footprint I hear is massive ;)
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
7 Jan 2011 #79
It's the size of the Earth! He'll have to offset with Andromeda!
poland_
7 Jan 2011 #80
And do you think every religion's "set of rules" being "the basis of law" "can only be good"?

Well, I would not want to live under " Sharia law"

that's the whole point. Nor do they prevent others believing or practising whatever religion they might choose to follow

In the western world we are more tolerant and respectful to other religions, of course there are always going to be extremists who shout and rant " Much ado about nothing" But we have what we have got and nothing is going to change, unless people come together for the greater good " life and living"

The irony is, if God's existence were actually proven, it would mean religion is in fact science and no longer faith...

Behind all stories and myth, there is an element of fact, the debate will always be, to what level. 2011 years ago they didn't have cameras or google translations, so we rely on written text ( and its translations) and paintings.

............................

After sleeping through a hundred million centuries we have finally opened our eyes on a sumptuous planet, sparkling with colour, bountiful with life. Within decades we must close our eyes again. Isn't it a noble, an enlightened way of spending our brief time in the sun, to work at understanding the universe and how we have come to wake up in it? This is how I answer when I am asked -- as I am surprisingly often -- why I bother to get up in the mornings. To put it the other way round, isn't it sad to go to your grave without ever wondering why you were born? Who, with such a thought, would not spring from bed, eager to resume discovering the world and rejoicing to be a part of it?

-- Richard Dawkins, excerpt from Chapter I, "The Anaesthetic of Familiarity," of Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder (1998)

The universe has been studied for thousands of years, it was also the basis of religion.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
7 Jan 2011 #81
An eye for an eye,never had you down as jewish, Wildrover.

Nope...i don,t follow that faith either....
Wroclaw Boy
7 Jan 2011 #82
Atheists believe in ... ???

Atheists lie to themselves because their practical minds can only rationalise their existence that way.

They are not capable of admitting that life simply doesnt make sense, doesnt make sense at all.
Olaf 6 | 956
7 Jan 2011 #83
People of all faiths, have one thing in common they believe in a higher power. Atheists believe in ... ???

They don't just resort to beliefs. They know facts, not believe improbable or imaginary things. This is the difference. Everyone's choice.

Atheists lie to themselves because their practical minds can only rationalise their existence that way.
They are not capable of admitting that life simply doesnt make sense, doesnt make sense at all.

So where is this lie? Is atheists' lie bigger than beliving things that are just as probable as fairy tales? You are reasonable man, why do you say that pure facts on which atheists rely are lies. Of course it doesn't make sense! When you start hoping for a 'bigger meaning' or higher purpose or some life after death - that's religion's arena and if it suits your needs - fine.
alexw68
7 Jan 2011 #84
They are not capable of admitting that life simply doesnt make sense, doesnt make sense at all.

The greater fallacy (albeit utterly, and universally, human) is to assume that a God will fill in the gap.

That, ultimately, is what Gods are for:

expedit esse deos: et, ut expedit, esse putemus - Ovid, Ars Amatoria, I.

("Gods serve a purpose - and, inasmuch as they serve a purpose, let us presume that they exist")
wildrover 98 | 4,451
7 Jan 2011 #85
OK..there is some religous thing on TVP2 at the moment...lots of people in strange robes with really silly hats on which they are kissing before they put on....

Lots of people are queing up to kiss some picture on a table ( a great way to spread infection ) , and get a cross painted on their forehead with a small brush....\

if anyone who was not part of the church did all this stuff they would get locked up for their own safety...

Even if i believed in god , i could not be bothered to go through all this nonsence...
Olaf 6 | 956
7 Jan 2011 #86
OK..there is some religous thing on TVP2 at the moment...lots of people in strange robes with really silly hats on which they are kissing before they put on....

Run, Wildrover, run! It's the Hat sect!!! They can steal your hat and use it to greet stranger in other hats! ;)

Lots of people are queing up to kiss some picture on a table ( a great way to spread infection ) , and get a cross painted on their forehead with a small brush....\

- Justin Beaver photo maybe?
wildrover 98 | 4,451
7 Jan 2011 #87
Run, Wildrover, run! It's the Hat sect!!!

Now some guy is holding up a purple book while two other guys hold plates on the end of long poles over it

The guy with the silliest hat is now holding some sticks with flowers on , and swinging a ball with smoke coming out of it....

This is so off the wall...who decided that god , if he exists wants to see all this sillyness....?
Olaf 6 | 956
7 Jan 2011 #88
Best way to watch it: mute the sound and make your own dubbing:D
Wroclaw Boy
7 Jan 2011 #89
So where is this lie?

Its everywhere, it represses during sleep and other forms of unconsciousness. Its with me right now and you too.
Olaf 6 | 956
7 Jan 2011 #90
Can you be more clear? If atheists rely on facts and proven things then how do they lie to themselves? Please elaborate.


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