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An EU army. Impact on Poland


delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
16 Nov 2018 #61
Poland should, and will, arm itself to a level where it becomes too hard to mess with by the neighbours ie. where the cost of attacking Poland would be too high

Except it won't. The Polish navy is in a dreadful state, the air force is completely dependent on NATO, and the land forces are in disarray because so much money has been diverted to the ideologically motivated WOT goons who won't be able to offer anything in the event of war.

Of course, the Polish military also reflects the reality, that is the threat only comes from Russia and Belarus. Yet, the reality on the ground is that there's nothing that could stop a Russian invasion except the NATO deterrent. That's why we need close and deep military integration with the rest of Europe.
Atch 23 | 4,045
16 Nov 2018 #62
Not to mention the fact that the PIS purge of the military meant the loss of a lot of experienced senior officers.
Crow 155 | 9,030
16 Nov 2018 #63
Official Poland follow foreign agenda. That is the problem.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
16 Nov 2018 #64
Not to mention the fact that the PIS purge of the military meant the loss of a lot of experienced senior officers.

Many of those who were removed now and earlier, like Gen. Rozanski, were a beneficiaries of "The Golden Fund". They were selected by the communist elites to be a future senior officers that would uphold the regime. It was done in early 1980's during martial law in Poland.

So,that had to be done. They had to be removed. Such an officers wouldn't be trustworthy in modern Poland. A cancerous cells needs to be removed in order to heal the organism as a whole.
Atch 23 | 4,045
16 Nov 2018 #65
Such an officers wouldn't be trustworthy in modern Poland.

Those most recently removed had caused no bother or threat to national security during the years since the fall of Communism. Those who were retained back in the 90s were needed in order to keep the army functional because an army has to have trained, experienced personnel in its adminstration, otherwise it will be joke, a mess like the African dictatatorships where you have an undisciplined rabble calling itself an army.

What's happening under PIS is that loyalty to the Party, rather than relevant skills, qualifications and experience, is becoming the main criteria for making appointments to positions of importance in all areas of public and social administration. It's basically Soviet politics.
mafketis 36 | 10,785
16 Nov 2018 #66
Much closer to PRL style patronage...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,177
17 Nov 2018 #67
They had to be removed.

They had to be removed because they weren't from PiS. If they were, they would have been left alone, just like Piotrowicz and all the rest of them.

Much closer to PRL style patronage...

It's what KaczyƄski knows best. The epic career of that spokeswoman for the MON that followed Misiewicz was a perfect example - she went from being a major to a colonel in a year. It made a complete mockery of the Polish army, as did the army having to salute that fool Misiewicz.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
18 Nov 2018 #68
"NATO's strength as a single set of forces, with a unique command and control network and planning process.

(...) why would you wish to duplicate or replicate the strengths of an existing strong alliance"

defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/11/17/nato-official-warns-eu-force-would-be-unwise

It seems that Germany wants to emancipate from American influence. This is against Polish geopolitical interests and I believe that the government will wisely choose the Americans over a shaky Franco-German alliance.
Joker 2 | 2,569
18 Nov 2018 #69
Except it won't. The Polish navy is in a dreadful state,

Hey, do you know why the Scottish Navy has glass bottom boats?

Its so the can see the old Scottish Navy...lol

If Poland is in such a dreadful state, then go back to your bagpipe land.
Crow 155 | 9,030
18 Nov 2018 #70
Your Polish situation is next. You so effectively ``outplayed`` Russians that they now can`t even move western, when western Europeans move eastern. Until now, at least, Russian magnates were motivated to grab something at least when western Europeans invading. But now, there is NATO and EU. Russians can`t move. It will be internal NATO/EU thing, so they can`t. They also proved they won`t do it for pure altruism, pure panslavism. So, its also excluded.

And France and Germany are coming. Nights of all nights.
Ironside 53 | 12,425
18 Nov 2018 #71
Much closer to PRL style patronage...

Where have you been before PiS came to power? eh? Are you telling me that before PiS it was some other style? The style is the same the aims are somewhat different and those who are to loose their sinecures or who lost them are bitching - that the change all the rest is much of the same post-communist reality. So what you are bitchin about now? Are you one of these who are affected personally by PiS rule?

They had to be removed because they weren't from PiS

Well, they had to be removed regardless. Many more would need to go too. Unfortunately PiS is not doing it. They play the same game as all post-commies after 1989 in Poland. It is not bad or it is not an issue that they kicking out the dead wood, all those post-soviet officers. The problem lies in the fact that are not doing it on a large scale, do not install a new healthy system and relay on installing their own people as if that was an answer to the problem.
Crow 155 | 9,030
21 Nov 2018 #72
It seems that Germany wants to emancipate from American influence.

Exactly. Germany seek for more power and influence. France, too. But, there is major shift of power in Europe. We are in front of one more great push back onto the advancing `Drang Nach Osten` project in which is involved complete western Europe against Slavs and Eastern Europe in general. Old US administration led by Bill Clinton was also involved in the project. Islamic league, too.

With progressive and venerable President Trump, US changing its policy on Europe and giving up from support to `Drang Nach Osten`.

Now, every Poland`s administration, since the end of Cold War, including politicians such are Tusk, obeyed to everything what came from western Europe, even when that considered anti-Polish policy. Then came the Duda for president of Poland and he automatically started to follow obeying policy of his predecessors, with from time to time cosmetic signs of resistance. But now, when US policy changing, there is the chance for serious changes in Poland`s policy, too. But would Duda have enough strength and wisdom?

Would Duda? Even if that consider open confrontation with Germany, Britain and France?
kondzior 11 | 1,046
21 Nov 2018 #73
NORD Stream 2 is a telltale example of the kind of foock you Eastern-Europe can expect if we were to say yes to the creation of an EU army -- it will never be used to protect the Eastern Europe countries (or anyone else) from external threats, only to enforce co-operation from the member states and keep Europeans compliant under the threat of violence.
Crow 155 | 9,030
21 Nov 2018 #74
More then ever peace in Europe depend on US, at a time when France and Germany again and again shows their imperial nature. I really hope that US won`t allow formation of EU army. But US must carefully balance between its positive and negative meddling. I think that president Trump understand situation very good. We, today`s Europeans are happy to live in his era.
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
21 Nov 2018 #75
In my opinion, Europe has "depended" on the US for much too long and any trend on the continent to reverse this would be a healthy choice, both for the US as well as for Europe:-)
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,792
21 Nov 2018 #76
....after all the Trumpists can't demand for Europe to stand on it's own feet and then protest and pout when they make plans to do just that!
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
21 Nov 2018 #77
After being coddled for so long by the superimposed presence of the US, even insisting that English become the lingua franca of the continent, I'm glad to hear reports from friends visiting countries OTHER than just France, Germany for instance, that even if tourists, Americans should at least speak a little of the target lingo:-)

Keep it up, Europe!
Crow 155 | 9,030
21 Nov 2018 #78
is this call to all Europeans or you expect that some Europeans more then others deserve to fill the gap of power and influence when US retreat from Europe? Because that is all this about, on Baltic, Balkans, Spain, in entire EU after all, etc. Some Europeans, such are Germany and France believe to be God given masters of this continent.

So, there are frictions on a continental and world scale. That same France and Germany expected US President Trump, same as previously Clinton and Obama, automatically to acknowledge French and German leading role in Europe, even, if necessary, at the cost of world war. But, venerable Trump knew better.

That`s why my respect goes to US President Trump, which makes US great again

t

t
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
21 Nov 2018 #79
And so you think that the US SHOULD continue to play a leading role or that Trump is right about Europe becoming more independent...of American money?

:-)
dolnoslask 6 | 2,946
21 Nov 2018 #80
Why should America subsidise the defence of Europe.

Europeans seem to have problems with America, let Europe go it's own way.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,792
21 Nov 2018 #82
Europeans seem to have problems with America,

We don't have a problem with America, we have a problem with Trump. Small but important difference...
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
21 Nov 2018 #83
So have we all, Bratwurst Boy, so have we all:-)
dolnoslask 6 | 2,946
21 Nov 2018 #84
Yep first sign of trouble we will send him in on the end of a long stick.

But on a serious note Trump was chosen by the American people in the same way Merkel was chosen by the German People.

Both are equally very questionable, Merkels policies have led to more crime unnecessary deaths of German people , Trump? the jury is out If he makes peace in north Korea all to the good.

Funny EU Transgender gay, gender neutral PC Army vs Russia balls out hard case alpha males. lol can't wait.

french, british, german males fiddling through their manbags looking for a hand grenade, more likely to throw a electric stubble shaver or butt plug at the enemy.
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
21 Nov 2018 #85
"Trump was chosen by the American people in the same way...."

Ahemmm, 'scuse me bro??! Trump's "election" was possibly, in fact, very likely, finagled by Putin, I don't care what the Comey people supposedly proved!

Merkel was chosen fairly and squarely by the GERMAN people, by her fellow citizens who honestly felt a need for change in their country.
Trump by contrast remains sort of the "dud prize". We couldn't get an independent Centrist, a McCain-type figure, and so we aka the South primarily, settled for this

guy and so we got him and as of yet can't get rid of him, plain and simple:-)
dolnoslask 6 | 2,946
21 Nov 2018 #86
for change in their country.

What nord stream and conspiring with ex chancellor khol coal whatever his name is , who is now a boss of gazprom, to fill her pockets with backhanders ?

Is this an example of Germany standing against putins russia alongside Poland? what a joke once she gets an army she will invade anyone that disagrees with her.

Tell me exactly what trump has done wrong, which wars or problems has he created exactly ?
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
21 Nov 2018 #87
The little that Trump has done right is far outweighed by the former!

Although our predecessors thus far have failed to stem the flow of erstwhile "wetbacks" from streaming illegally over our borders, a wall is surely not the long-term solution, as Trump will learn to regret as surely as his fellow leader Bibi will already have learned in the Middle East. You can't "wall people out" without there being a

severe backlash, for which I truly don't think The Donald is prepared.

Share as I do the frustrations of millions of other middle-class Americans, sick and tired of being outbid and often outnumbered by recent immigrants to the US, frequently "place holders" (the Bukharen Russians of Queens, the Koreans of Fort Lee and others), without adequate knowledge of either our language, our culture, history or way of life, Donald John Trump's nothing more than a quick fix to a slowly festering problem, not a panacea for which ever so many had hoped and still hope.

Imperfect as Merkel is, at least she seems to act out of a degree of conscience (however misguided) rather than unabashed self interest.
Crow 155 | 9,030
21 Nov 2018 #88
Tell me exactly what trump has done wrong, which wars or problems has he created exactly ?

Nothing. Trump did nothing, except that Trump refusing to continue to work with France and Germany on wild hegemonic projects that may lead in French-German rule over all other Europeans except over Russians. What actually wouldn`t happen because before France and Germany ever manage to finish their projects, Europe would be in flame of war. Then, that war would again involve US.

So, Trump is wise, wants to save many lives and he decided to stop French-German axis in time, before Russians stop them.
Lyzko 45 | 9,275
21 Nov 2018 #89
Why would he wish to stop the French-German axis?
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,792
21 Nov 2018 #90
french, british, german males fiddling through their manbags looking for a hand grenade, more likely to throw a electric stubble shaver

Yeah...well...you find that funny, but consider our violent past and the destruction these manly men back then brought...

what a joke once she gets an army she will invade anyone that disagrees with her.

Seriously dude? She is only in power for two more years...


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