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An EU army. Impact on Poland


up the creek
20 Nov 2016  #1
Trump suggests all Nato members should pay up in full,Now Brussels whats to move forward or the proposal of an EU army comntrolled by Brussels. Once the UK opts out, which countries are you left with, that could muster up a force... Poland, one of the top 20 military forces in the world and renowned fighting soldiers. France, prefer to use their air force and medical units, do not like to put boots on the ground. Italy military force yet prefer not to be involved, Turkey not yet EU. The Germans, logistics,logistics,logistics. So how will this new fighting force be made up?
Wincig 2 | 187
20 Nov 2016  #2
France, prefer to use their air force and medical units, do not like to put boots on the ground.

except in Mali, Liberia, Congo, Centrafrica, Guinea, Lebanon, Syria, Irak .. where French (non medical) troops are on the ground
OP up the creek
20 Nov 2016  #3
Wincig, why do you mention former french colonies, so its the protection of French interest. Why also not just mention Opération Chammal its not boots on the ground.
OP up the creek
20 Nov 2016  #4
Wincig, check the figures of coalition soldiers killed in Afghanistan, this is not taking into consideration the numbers wounded and maimed. These are some of the reasons the Brits want out of the EU, why should the USA, UK and Pol send their boys to war for countries like France and Germany that do not pay their full contributions? After the attacks in Paris Hollande requested the activation of the EU mutual defence clause, now I am in solidarity of standing shoulder to shoulder with France, but this should be reciprocated, why now the UK has decided on Brexit, have you not come out in solidarity of the democratic rights of British people. The French establishment are making noises about penalising the UK and making us pay for voting against the EU.
Crow 137 | 7,644
13 Nov 2018  #5
Merged:

France and Germany pushing for EU army - that is good or bad for Poland ?



We listening these days that Germany and France pushing for formation of EU army. Is that good or bad for Poland?
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,610
14 Nov 2018  #6
I don't trust people who don't swear. Those who say oh là là I would trust even less in a moment need.
Crow 137 | 7,644
14 Nov 2018  #7
They need army in case that some EU member state tries to separate. If Poland tries to secede from EU, some regions of Poland may express desire to stay within EU. You can bet then, EU army would react on behalf of loyalists.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #8
Nah...the EU isn't the Balkan. No serbian generals will attack people who want to leave Yugoslavia!
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,610
14 Nov 2018  #9
Germany should be all Europe needs to defend itself after it grows some balls and teeth. The French added to it would be merely a distraction and a pita the way the US allies were in Iraq to the US army. All the other Euro "armed forces" would, at best, be doing guard duty and serve as living and breathing ornaments needed to make the thing multi-national and, thus, to take away the stink of Germans entering Poland again on the EU directives.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #10
Germany should be all Europe needs to defend itself after it grows some balls and teeth.

Nah...I don't think Europe could stomach our "balls and teeth" for a third time.

The next time the Germans will be a part of a common army, not "the" army.
Lyzko 23 | 6,652
14 Nov 2018  #11
At the moment, NATO and the EU are in a power struggle for control of the continent of Europe, and not
only for their own member states.

Trump isn't helping things along, nor certainly Macron for taking public pot shots at our president, detest the latter as I do.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #12
Trump isn't helping things along,

Oh but he is! Just not in the way he wanted to...

Against all warnings he couldn't let that special dog sleeping and threw a tantrum about a few percent. In the future history books they will write whole chapters about that monumental short sighted stupidity and how he helped to found the EU army and in the later consequence the dissolution of NATO.
Lyzko 23 | 6,652
14 Nov 2018  #13
AKA he's not helping things along. By definition, if he plans something his way but it's not going as he planned then it's not going his way, Bratwurst Boy!

Hate to split hairs here, but just want to make certain you and I are on the same home page:-)
Lyzko 23 | 6,652
14 Nov 2018  #15
Generalist!
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,610
14 Nov 2018  #16
Why can't you accept something a lot simpler: Trumps and the Americans see the US is going broke playing good old senile giver. He knows that NATO is useless to the US since (1) the US can defend itself, (2) the US is not that stupid to count on NATO and the EU, whatever that is, in the event the US itself is attacked by China or Russia.

Way back in 1941, the problem was first and the military build-up next. Today, it's in reverse: NATO, which means the US, is in search of the mission. The proposed EU army would be in the same situation looking for the enemy. China? This joke offered by that French moron is not even funny. Why would Russia attack France?

So, what's left is the EU "army" as internal police. That's it.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #17
Nah...the integration and cooperation of the members police forces is another topic (EUROPOL).

europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/agencies/europol_en

europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/156/police-cooperation

There is even a union already:

europeanpoliceunion.eu
Ironside 48 | 9,796
14 Nov 2018  #18
that Germany and France pushing for formation of EU army.

those brussels trout always spew out that nonsense because those ratchet asses think that makes them look swag. Whilst in reality there are no slightest chance for it being a serious proposition.

Who is gonna pay for it and why if there is NATO and most of them ain't willing to met 2% bench mark for military.

Do you think they going to put more for EU military? Think again. If they don't most like at best it would be some kind of more well paid office positions for pen' pushers with some token troops without any military value. At worst some kind of EU police govern by Brussels and used against any country that would fall in line with German and France policies.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #19
Whilst in reality there are no slightest chance for it being a serious proposition.

Iron...it has already started:

Nov 13, 2017

EU takes step towards closer defence cooperation

The EU took a major step towards building closer defence ties on Monday (13 November), with 23 member states signing a landmark agreement...

euractiv.com/section/defence-policy/news/eu-takes-step-towards-closer-defence-cooperation

Jun 25, 2018

Nine European countries to formalise EU defence force plan

Nine EU nations will on Monday (25 June) formalise a plan to create a European military intervention force....

euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/nine-european-countries-to-formalise-eu-defence-force-plan

Who does what in PESCO:

7.3.2018

esjnews.com/pesco-defence-council-roadmap

We even have a "European Defence Agency":

eda.europa.eu

But it's not all bad :)

10/1/18

UK and US will be allowed to join some EU military projects

politico.eu/article/pesco-military-uk-and-us-will-be-allowed-to-join-some-eu-military-projects

Under a compromise between EU member countries, outsiders will only have access on a case-by-case basis....

Heh:)

Please cut down on the number of quotes and links when you post
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,610
14 Nov 2018  #20
Nah...the integration and cooperation of the members police forces is another topic

That is not what I meant by "internal police". I meant an EU police similar to the US army playing the world cop. What you referred to is retail - one cop chasing one bad guy.

At worst some kind of EU police governed by Brussels and used against any country that would fall in line with German and France policies.

You meant "...fall out of line..."? Other than that, I agree 100%.

We even have a "European Defence Agency":

With the White House on speed-dial? Sorry, but I couldn't resist it.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #21
I meant an EU police similar to the US army playing the world cop

Never!
Ironside 48 | 9,796
14 Nov 2018  #22
Iron...it has already started:

Yes, what I said - a bureaucratic structure with few token soldiers. It makes absolutely no sense but sounds good to people like you. It is propaganda.

Who is gonna pay for it? If you cannot pay 2% on your own military, how much you going to fork out for EU military? More?

For Poland it makes nonsense at all.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #23
Who is gonna pay for it?

The EU is gonna pay for it of course.

Strasbourg, 13 June 2018

A €13 billion European Defence Fund will provide the financial firepower for cross-border investments in state-of-the-art and fully interoperable technology and equipment in areas such as encrypted software and drone technology.

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4121_en.htm

In addition, the High Representative, with the support of the Commission, is proposing today a new €10.5 billion European Peace Facility.....

That's for starters...the budget for 2021-2027

And of course one common army is so much cheaper for the members than 27 fully staffed armies. We can have the most modern, best army in the world for only a fraction of the costs all these armies cost now.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,610
14 Nov 2018  #24
Never!

I meant internal to the EU and as a big stick to assure compliance by the member states, as others already wrote here.
Spike31 2 | 865
14 Nov 2018  #26
Here's a very interesting material about it :

youtu.be/qKtaE2sezE4
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #27
It is propaganda.

Well...

The following projects shall be developed under PESCO:

data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-6393-2018-INIT/en/pdf

The ideas run around for a long time...but it needed the Brexit and one President Trump to set things really in motion!
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,610
14 Nov 2018  #28
press-release_IP-18-4121_en.htm

I read the thing. After this:

A €13 billion European Defence Fund will provide the financial firepower for cross-border investments in state-of-the-art and fully interoperable technology and equipment in areas such as encrypted software and drone technology.

...I burst out laughing. That's what the US universities are doing. Not one word about the nukes, planes, artillery, navy ships. Nothing, but a lot of bs about "safety of our citizens". Again, "safety of our citizens" is a police job and the school crossing guards.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,765
14 Nov 2018  #29
Yeah...keep laughing...only two years back even what has been agreed now would had been unthinkable. Let's see where we are in 10 years...

:)
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,610
14 Nov 2018  #30
Let's see where we are in 10 years...

Hopefully off the US military welfare.
Naively, I expected that a document dealing with defense would actually mention the enemy. Duh! If not by name, at least by their military capabilities. Then, what it is we will need for the job. Nothing of that sort. Another research project, conferences, dinners and wine, and everybody feeling good that "we are doing something".


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