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US air base to be in Poland

convex 20 | 3,930
11 May 2011 #121
So uh, who did you guys vote for? Are you discrediting the idea of representative democracy as a whole? What's your alternative?
Seanus 15 | 19,674
11 May 2011 #122
Convex, major issues require the use of referendums, simple. If the will of the majority is for such a base then I have no defence but I bet my bottom dollar it isn't the case.
convex 20 | 3,930
11 May 2011 #123
Not according to the Constitution. The Polish government requesting F16s in Poland is a "major issue"? No change of the Constitution, no referendum needed. If the people are displeased, they'd vote their representatives out of power. Truth is, most people don't care.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
11 May 2011 #124
Well, there is apathy amongst the masses, I'll concede that much. However, without a formal ascertaining of the majority will, Tusk is pressing ahead with sth that is dubious to say the least. Votes are lodged at elections, convex, and they aren't due to take place til Oct of this year so what rights do voters really have? Protests are often left unheeded anyway.

The Polish govt requesting a US presence like a protectorate is the issue here. The day of garrisons has gone ;0 ;)
convex 20 | 3,930
11 May 2011 #125
The Polish govt requesting a US presence like a protectorate is the issue here. The day of garrisons has gone ;0 ;)

In that case the referendum will come in October. Poles can vote in representatives who will express their will.

I think that you grossly underestimate the desire of quite a few Poles to have allies willing to defend them. There isn't exactly a huge "get out of NATO" movement.

And again, it's simply not of concern for most Poles in Poland. F16s, Patriots, ABM... the man on the street doesn't care.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
11 May 2011 #126
Then I hope a referendum is issued. Oh, the NATO rationale was more prevalent in 1999 under Kwaśniewski. Many want to be defended, yes, but many also seek that a US presence could provoke a Russian reaction which is needless as relations are quite favourable with them at the moment.

Many Poles may be indifferent but their vote still counts when push comes to shove.
OP Piast Poland 3 | 165
11 May 2011 #127
Yes and I hope voters will change see this issue. But who else is there to elect? Seanus is right, there needs to be a referendum.
Ironside 53 | 12,439
12 May 2011 #128
To be honest that is a secondary issue. The main problem in Poland (I guess in other country's as well) is a lack of solid government working solely for the interest of Polish people.

Given that the US base issue could be solved in amicable manner if necessary.
OP Piast Poland 3 | 165
13 Jun 2011 #129
More concrete plans for US air force presence in Poland. Seems as if these plans will indeed go ahead in the next few years and troops will be present on the ground for an indefinite period of time.

In return for this base Patriot missiles may not be deployed.

Overall very bad news.
misse911 - | 4
3 Nov 2011 #130
We do not need to host a base for the most hated and war mongering military/country world.

Do you speak German? No? Then YOUR WELCOME you ungrateful SOB. Because if it weren't for those Americans you would be nothing more today than a slave to the Nazi machine.
ShortHairThug - | 1,101
3 Nov 2011 #131
Do you speak German?

Is that your best reprisal? LOL It was a cooperative effort, even Russians did their part. Typical Yank taking all the glory and credit yet again, like no one else contributed. Besides what happen almost 70 years ago does not make the previous post false or what you have become. Shove it!
Kovalski - | 2
29 Sep 2015 #132
Merged: Hysteria about Russian Air Base in Belarus has no sense

The issue of Russia's air base deployment in Belarus is now widely discussed in NATO countries.
Russia's president Vladimir Putin ordered the Foreign Affairs Ministry and the Defence Ministry to open the necessary talks with Minsk. Last month Russia's Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced that Russia was planning to station a wing of fighter jets at a military airbase in Belarus.

Poland, Lithuania, Latvia are sure that Russian airbase in Belarus would fuel tension in the region. Is there any reason to worry about?
In reality the Russian airbase in Belarus is not directed against NATO and should not be seen as threat to any state. Russia and Belarus has a unified military space and no wonder that they will protect their borders and it makes no difference if Russian or Belarusian planes are located there.

"When the military infrastructure is moving towards borders, this always evokes questions. Russia and Belarus protect their borders," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said said on Friday. Moreover, it is surprising, why hysteria about the airbase is increasing. The agreement on setting up a Russian airbase that Belarus and Russia are going to sign is the implementation of the bilateral arrangements made in 2009.
Tartar 1 | 22
2 Oct 2015 #133
Russia is stationing troops & planes in Belarus to avoid an uprising when the fair elections fail to happen again; the EU & NATO have signed an agreement that no troops can be stationed permanently in any of the former eastern bloc countries and the only way round this is to rotate troops on "Exercise" which by-passes the rule.
chaffinchs - | 4
7 Oct 2015 #134
Well the external affairs of US will to know in the upcoming debate. I hope you enjoy the Republican debates with the likes of Trump, Carly etc.

Here's everything you need to know about the upcoming October 28 CNBC Republican Debate Schedule.
7 Oct 2015 #135
I cannot understand why Poland would want a US airbase on it's soil so that the Americans can threaten Russia at arms length, First sign of real trouble the Americans will dump Poland like a ton of bricks in the same way they did in Yalta.

Poland would be better off without Nato and the American bases, Russia has no interest in Poland anymore as long as Poland is not a threat,

Nato And america only want Poland to be a buffer/ battle zone between themselves and Russia, Poland is better off on its own and should remain neutral, and work as a peacemaker between both parties.
7 Oct 2015 #136
Exactly. The more toys NATO puts in Poland the more likely Russia targets Poland. It would be Poles dying in large numbers should things get worst.

Look at Germany and Japan how many protesters they have against US occupation bases. Look at all the colored children that come out after Americans rape some innocent women.

The problem is Polands main parties are in bed with the US neoconservatives and EU politicians.

Better is for Poland to work with all neighbours and other Catholic nations. Be a bridge for trade and neutral relations with the countries nearby.
8 Oct 2015 #137
Nice to know the Russians want Poland to disarm so they can enslave us again.

Never going to happen.
Tartar 1 | 22
9 Oct 2015 #138
Most people in Poland do not speak German, I will grant you that.

But how many of the older generation had to learn Russian after the Americans sold Poland out to Stalin at YALTA and what about Lwów?

Thanks for that and with friends like that, who needs enemies..

Trusting the US to save Poland is Stupid!
9 Oct 2015 #139
Tartar I completely agree,

Poland was enslaved for years after Yalta, Many of us were exiled far from our people and country.

With Nato and the Americans combined defending Poland, it would only take Russia two weeks to take Poland, then leading to the risk that Poland becomes a nuclear playground to satisfy the ego's of a few.

Better Poland stays neutral and concentrates building its own economy, whilst helping to build bridges with Russia
Tartar 1 | 22
13 Nov 2015 #140
Exactly Dolnoslask,

Currently in this region Turkey is NO.1 and Poland is No.2; That is Despite what the last terrible government in Poland supposedly did, Poland is the 2nd Strongest growing economy within the region.

Turkey is in NATO the same as Poland (Turkey has the 2nd Largest force in NATO after the US) and keeps itself friends with the US and Russia; although Turkey is on the brink of a civil war between the Turkish Muslim extremists and The Turkish Muslim Reformists...

Poland could surpass Turkey and should learn lessons from what they have been doing there.

If you support US bases in Poland - Interesting point to note is that the US does not and will not be allow it's soldier to be held accountable to foreign laws when serving.. i.e. when a US solider commits a crime overseas the foreign government cannot prosecute them, this was a massive problem in Kosovo when the Americans were involved in the sex trade and it will be in Poland.

They try and cover up any instances of this happening, but the soldiers know about it and it just encourages rapes, drunk driving, stealing and crimes on all levels.
johnny reb 47 | 7,049
13 Nov 2015 #141
this was a massive problem in Kosovo when the Americans were involved in the sex trade

Americans is the key word here.
I do believe what you are referring to was the private American contractors like Black Water (google those idiots) and not the United States Military that was involved in your allegations.

I can assure you that if any U.S. military warriors were to do such a thing in Poland and got caught they would be punished much much harsher with a court martial and U.S. military court then what they would get with what Polish law would do to them.
Crow 155 | 9,030
13 Nov 2015 #142
Idea about Intermarium would sooner or later exclude USA air base in Poland.
13 Nov 2015 #143
As would the idea of turning all of Poland outside of the large cities into a unicorn sanctuary. And Poland turned itself into a unicorn sanctuary is a lot more likely to happen than Poland leaving NATO and the EU in order to form a close alliance with the backwards parts of Europe.
Crow 155 | 9,030
13 Nov 2015 #144
Thank you Harry for opinion. No matter that our opinions differ and i even think that you speak utter nonsense, i salute fact that you have right to speak.

Anyway, Duda spoke of Intermarium and that, as we all know, excludes EU, NATO and actually means Poland`s neutrality on global military alliances. What i know Duda`s ideas are nicely accepted by Poles.
Polonius3 994 | 12,380
13 Nov 2015 #145
Russia targets Poland

Putin may be an ego-tripping megalomaniac but he's not a madman. Knowing he is outdeveloped and outarmed by America, he would not dare venture into or launch a missile against any NATO country esp. one with GI boots on the ground.

Why is NATO making all the fuss about keeping some agreement not to set up permanent bases in ex-commie states when Moscow flagrantly broke its agreement to honour Ukraine's territorial integrity.
Crow 155 | 9,030
13 Nov 2015 #146
Russia targets Poland

Russia is now strongly influenced by Serbians and idea of harming Poland is far from Russian thoughts. Not to mention that there are obvious signal which suggests that Poland emerging as center of one new global power (Intermarium) and it is exactly Russia who suggests Multi-Polar world. Its much more acceptable to Russia (Eurasian Union) to have strong Poland (Intermarium) as her western neighbor then strong western Europe and within it assimilated Poles by Anglos and Germanics.

Also, strong Poland is in Chinese interest, too. In interest of other global centers, too.
13 Nov 2015 #147
crow " strong Poland is in Chinese interest"

I spent ten years helping working on a new british / us set up in china, it worked well, I had no problem working with the chinese, also my brother did well working with the russians in the uk. Poland would do well trading with both, why does Poland need a us airbase in poland? (apart from wanting to antagonise the russians), Poland could build its own airbases. Why should poland get in involved (Or incinerated) because of two nations with overblown ego's (Russia / America)

Remember Yalta? America+ Britain+Russia = Poland was sold into slavery...
Tartar 1 | 22
20 Nov 2015 #148
dolnoslask - Remember Yalta? America+ Britain+Russia = Poland was sold into slavery... Agree totally..
Just look at Turkey working with Obama & Putin and the 2nd Strongest army in Nato for it's own defence.

Johnny reb - I would suggest you look-up US army criminal cases and see how many have been blocked by the US government.
One instance was a pilot blue on blue with an unconfirmed target, cheering even after hearing it was a friendly.
(It is truly shocking and I did not believe it myself.)
Polonius3 994 | 12,380
20 Nov 2015 #149
why does Poland need a us airbase

Because chicken-sh*t Putin may threaten, fume and rant but would not dare attack a NATO country, especially one with GI boots on the ground. He may be a megalomaniac and Great Russian chauvinist, but he's no fool and knows the balance of the two countries' (US and Russia's) military arsenals. And he's not about the incinerate the globe!
Polson 5 | 1,768
20 Nov 2015 #150
Because chicken-sh*t Putin may threaten, fume and rant but would not dare attack a NATO country, especially one with GI boots on the ground.

No 'especially'. Russia would not attack a NATO country either way. What would be its interest in doing so anyway? Tell me why on earth would Russia attack Poland? For its rich natural resources? To 'protect' its Russian minority? To defend itself from the deadly Polish army forces? I can't see any (reasonable) reasons for Russia to invade Poland.

Poland is a NATO member. That's more than enough. No need for a foreign occupation on its soil.

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