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Are Polish newspapers causing problems for Rom?


Trevek 26 | 1,702
15 Sep 2011  #1
There have been several articles in Polish papers about the discovery of a possible slave ring in UK.

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8756637/Slaves-held-for-15-years-in-kennels-and-horse-boxes.html

I noticed that Fakt and Superexpress referred to the accused as "Rom", although other articles I have read suggest they were more likely travellers.

Is this rather dubious reporting likely to cause more problems for Rom in Poland?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
15 Sep 2011  #2
I don't get it... Does it matter If a person, who committed crime is referred by the media as black or African ? Besides in Poland Gypsies are officially called "Romowie"... so that how they call them...
southern 75 | 7,097
15 Sep 2011  #3
They could call them gypsy persons.
OP Trevek 26 | 1,702
15 Sep 2011  #4
My point is that Irish Travellers are not Rom, they might have some connection but they're not the same. The reports suggest that there were a number of Poles and other Europeans freed from the site, and it may have been part of an international trafficking ring.

I don't think Rom people would like it thought that their folk were involved in slave trade.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
15 Sep 2011  #5
Mad though it sounds, I heard that it is relatively common in both Irish traveller and English gypsy circles to keep so called "dossers"

Hard to know though as there is so much myth and BS about these people.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
15 Sep 2011  #6
I heard that it is relatively common in both Irish traveller and English gypsy circles to keep so called "dossers"

Oddly enough,now you mention it "dosser" couldnt sound more Romany if it came wrapped in a bandana with a gold earing in.......

But re the OP, Surprise surprise a paper called "Fakt" got its facts wrong,all acounts say Irish "travellers" ,considering the only travelling most of those twats have done has been a one way trip accross the irish sea to soft touch Britain.........
Ironside 48 | 9,705
15 Sep 2011  #7
Is this rather dubious reporting likely to cause more problems for Rom in Poland?

No it will not,
teflcat 5 | 1,032
15 Sep 2011  #8
Surprise surprise a paper called "Fakt" got its facts wrong,

Fakt is an 'ELVIS FOUND ON MOON' type rag. I wouldn't believe the TV times in it.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
15 Sep 2011  #9
Murdoch publication then.... ;)
Teffle 22 | 1,321
15 Sep 2011  #11
"travellers"

Yeah, yeah - I know. But it's just a wishy washy PC term, largely a settled community creation, because they don't like to be called gypsies.

Many "travellers" refer to themselves as pavee anyway.

The common derogatory term in Ireland is knacker. I'd never even heard the term pikey for example until Lock, Stock
OP Trevek 26 | 1,702
15 Sep 2011  #12
Yeah, yeah - I know. But it's just a wishy washy PC term, largely a settled community creation, because they don't like to be called gypsies.

Yeah, but it's also because they aren't Gypsy/Rom.

Yeah, I'd heard the term 'knacker' in Ireland and a mate of mine was doing anthropology research amongst them in Northern Ireland and he explained the term 'pavee'. Also said that they didn't like it when non-pavee used it, apparently.

Pikey: apparently an old term... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikey
Wroclaw 44 | 5,388
15 Sep 2011  #13
are they not 'tinkers'
Teffle 22 | 1,321
15 Sep 2011  #14
Yeah, but it's also because they aren't Gypsy/Rom.

Sure, but the distinction isn't usually made by most of the settled population.

The categories in Ireland tend to be:

Traveller (Irish, but of uncertain true origin, make up most of the "non-settled" community here)

Gypsy (derogatory unless applied to a real gypsy, often known as an "English gypsy", who may or may not have traveller links - they sometimes

intermarry - and who may have historical continental roma links)

Roma (distinctive, swarthy, dark clothing, hats etc)

I'm not saying it's right but that is largely the way it is viewed.

I know a few travellers and English gypsies - culturally and lifestyle wise they appear to be very similar to me.
OP Trevek 26 | 1,702
15 Sep 2011  #15
But in Poland there are only Rom/Gypsies (and other tribes/clans).

My point is that 2 newspapers refer to "Romów", which implies Rom, rather than anything else.

Still, maybe I'm just being way too sensitive to the matter.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
15 Sep 2011  #16
Trevek - welcome to Poland - the world of quality journalism (btw in Polsat news the people were clearly identified as travellers and it was explained that even though they tend to live like Gypsies they are not Gypsies at all but rather locals)
teflcat 5 | 1,032
15 Sep 2011  #17
they are not Gypsies at all but rather locals

I heard a BBC interview with the wife of one of the accused. Her accent was Irish, certainly not Leighton Buzzard, where the traveller/pikey/gypsy site is. I know they've been there for a long time but these people aren't locals.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
15 Sep 2011  #18
I didn't mean locals in this way - rather natives to the Isles
teflcat 5 | 1,032
16 Sep 2011  #19
Yes, they are certainly that. It could be argued that British Roma - real Romany Gypsies - are native, as they've been there for centuries, albeit living in their own, separate way.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
16 Sep 2011  #20
British Roma - real Romany Gypsies

I often hear this, the real gypsy thing. I'm not being obstreperous but what is "real" about them?

Let's call a spade a spade - they are all gyppos !

As I said, IME, "English gypsies" are virtually indistinguishable from "travellers" in most ways in my experience.

There seems to be an implication that they are more legitimate or something...not sure.

Politically incorrect, but there is an uncouthness, a primitive aspect, a lawlessness, and an outright criminality which is rife in both - many decent people too, but on average, yes, much more prevalent than in "the settled".

I have found almost no difference between gypsy/traveller in this respect.

Or is this just a semantic thing?
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
16 Sep 2011  #21
difference....yes,pay a gypsy to do a job and they do the job,pay a traveller..more fool you.
the problem is a bunch of white irish crooks can now claim Minority Ethnic status,which is absurd as geneticaly,ethnically and if not dressed like uber chavs,visably identical to other long standing native britons and irish.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
16 Sep 2011  #22
difference....yes,pay a gypsy to do a job and they do the job,pay a traveller

Nah. Plenty of gypsy scammers too,I've encountered them.

white irish crooks

Yes, many are but many aren't - like gypsies.

Minority Ethnic status,which is absurd

...but I definitely agree with that.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
16 Sep 2011  #23
Yes, many are but many aren't

Oh yes, like the vast majority of nice law abiding pikeys on that camp who never once saw a single one of the 25 slaves,ever,honest,swear to holy mother mary ........ok,plain speaking. British gypsys have ben here at least 5 hundred years,Irish pikeys came some time in the last 40 to 50 years,send the fekkers back to ireland.
hythorn 3 | 580
16 Sep 2011  #24
the English gypsies stopped travelling years ago

they are mainly living on static caravan sites

if you are genuinely interested, read On the cobbles by Jimmy Stockin

it was ghost written as Jimmy cannot read or write

all the English gypsies I have met have been decent people.
The Frankhams are probably the most famous UK gypsy family or
possibly the Gormans or the Bowmans from Cumbria

Irish knackers are another breed entirely

As for Polish gypsies it depends on where you are living
the ones in the West seem to be successful businesspeople
the ones in the East resort to begging and trading
Teffle 22 | 1,321
16 Sep 2011  #25
Ok so it's English gypsies = all decent and law abiding noble people with ancient customs & tradtions, travellers= scumbag criminals send them all back, Enoch was right?

Jesus.

Waitaminute - the Gormans?

Er...Bartley Gorman was an Irish traveller if that's who you mean!

Johnny Frankham is in jail as I type. His brother, Bobby (punched a ref. in Wembley by the way) was the one who coached Brad Pitt for Snatch on how to be a convincing Irish traveller - so much for the two incredibly different cultures eh? : )
OP Trevek 26 | 1,702
16 Sep 2011  #26
the English gypsies stopped travelling years ago

Not all of them. I've met some who still travel during summer seasons etc. Don't forget there are also Welsh and Scottish Gypsies/Rom. There used to be a number of settlements along the border, particularly on the Scottish side, because of the anti-Gypsy laws in past centuries.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
16 Sep 2011  #27
send them all back, Enoch was right?

p!ss off!!! :) sending irish people back to ireland......wtf is wrong about that? Its not like they even attempt to have roots or legal connections to this country,of course those that break away from the life might do but the ones constantly on the rob and living illegally should get the boot,why special protection for them?
Teffle 22 | 1,321
16 Sep 2011  #28
Relax!

Criminals, of course - boot them out.

ts not like they even attempt to have roots or legal connections to this country

Well it might p1ss you off but they don't have to.

No special protection for anyone, just the weight of the law for those that break it - same as anyone.

In fairness though, there may be a more subtle reason for the percieved criminality in England.

Those travellers who chose to go there, to avail of the ethnic status (that they don't get here) and soft touch approach, are obviously more opportunistic and scammy than those who didn't. Most, thousands, stayed in Ireland and are just for the most part "getting on with it".

What I'm suggesting is that the UK has maybe ended up with the dregs in many cases.
hythorn 3 | 580
16 Sep 2011  #29
Bartley Gorman was an Irish traveller if that's who you mean!

Johnny Frankham is in jail as I type. His brother, Bobby (punched a ref. in Wembley by the way) was the one who coached Brad Pitt for Snatch on how to be a convincing Irish traveller - so much for the two incredibly different cultures eh? : )

Bartley was not Irish. His mother was.

I did not know that Johnny Frankham was in jail. A google search revealed that he tried to scam 9000 quid out of an old lady.

Oh dear. In light of recent evidence I might have to review my opinion of the Frankham family.
Johnny coached Brad Pitt as far as I remember. Both the Frankham boys lost their boxing licenses for attacking the ref
Teffle 22 | 1,321
16 Sep 2011  #30
His mother was

I realise that but he identified with and referred to himself as an Irish traveller did he not?

I haven't seen him described as anything else.


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