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Mysterious death of Magdalena Żuk on holiday in Egypt


jon357 69 | 18,445
28 May 2017 #31
I think that is what people are suggesting, isnt it?

Basically it's become a focus for all sorts of outlandish conspiracy theories during a period when there isn't much elsein the news here.

a young lone woman in an country with a very different culture

Certainly being stuck on her own in Marsa Alam can't have made anything easier for her.

might have been raped

As far as I know, the only suggestions for this came from conspiracy theorists. Nobody knows yet what triggered her psychotic episode, however the idea of a white woman being ravaged by Egyptians appeals to the tabloid press. She has has two autopsies, one of them in Poland, and no signs of any violence were found.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,846
28 May 2017 #32
she haven't had any metal health problems before

well mental health problems come on don't they? Usually at about this age. Being in a hot climate and strange environment probably didnt help.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
28 May 2017 #33
yes,,but that needs to be established,its not something common that people get insane over night.if possible.
and hot climate explanation doesn't really count here.
she arrived at night,and first signs of her mental problems,were notified following morning.not to mention that according to German embassy who spoke with Germans tourists,she was invited and was drinking with hotel stuff that night she arrived.not to mention,that drugging young girls is something quite common in those Islamic tourist places

not saying they drugged her,but its legitimate concern and needs to be investigated.
jon357 69 | 18,445
28 May 2017 #34
,its not something common that people get insane over night.if possible.

It is actually very common that underlying problems develop into a crisis very suddenly.

not saying they drugged her,

There's no serious suggestion that anything like that happened. Just pernicious conspiracy theories and prurient smut in tabloids.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
28 May 2017 #35
Just pernicious conspiracy theories and prurient smut in tabloids.

nah...its you claiming that girl got insane within few hours is more likely conspiracy theory.very unlikely.extremely rare. definitely more uncommon than Muslim dragging young girl,which is actually standard thing in those countries .sexual harassment,rapes,drugging ect.

far more common than young girl getting insane overnight and commit suicide.

There's no serious suggestion that anything like that happened

many thing could suggest that,starting from her behaviour,typical for people under psychotropic drugs,to her own admission,she claim she was raped
jon357 69 | 18,445
28 May 2017 #36
hat girl got insane within few hours is more likely conspiracy theory

That doesn't make much sense.

dragging young girl,

Not one shred of evidence to support that happening to the tourist - although conspiracy theorists would love it to be so..
Wulkan - | 3,243
28 May 2017 #37
conspiracy theorists

Yes, they really want to believe that she went completely crazy overnight.
OP WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
28 May 2017 #38
I don't think Jon seems to have grasped how much crazier 'healthy young woman goes to Egypt for a holiday, goes insane for no apparent reason and throws herself out of a window' sounds than 'woman raped on holiday in Egypt.'
Harry
28 May 2017 #39
healthy young woman

Any chance you can post a link to her medical history? You clearly have read it, so perhaps you'd like to share it with us? Thanks in advance.
Wulkan - | 3,243
28 May 2017 #40
Any chance you can post a link to her medical history?

Another GW tabloid reader steps in :-) Her medical history is clear according to her family and I trust them more than conspiracy theorists from GW, she used to be a member of DDA group in the past, nothing more than that.
jon357 69 | 18,445
28 May 2017 #41
Any chance you can post a link to her medical history?

They can't, not that there need be any. Some people have no shame whatsoever and just revel in the most tasteless conspiracy theories. This was a simple matter.

It reminds me of the (Polish) woman whose teenage daughter got knocked up on holiday and she pretended that it was due to globs of sperm floating in the hotel swimming pool.
Wulkan - | 3,243
28 May 2017 #42
Some people have no shame whatsoever and just revel in the most tasteless conspiracy theories.

Like your conspiracy theory that she went completely crazy overnight, no shame at all.
jon357 69 | 18,445
28 May 2017 #43
Don't be silly Wulky.

There were two autopsies, no foul play.
Wulkan - | 3,243
28 May 2017 #44
There were two autopsies

You can't find out about mental issues from the autopsy dummy.
jon357 69 | 18,445
28 May 2017 #45
You can however find out that the lady died of natural causes, dummy.
jon357 69 | 18,445
28 May 2017 #46
Unfortunately here, they try to always blame somebody else. This seems very much to be a case of that.
Wulkan - | 3,243
28 May 2017 #47
You can however find out that the lady died of natural causes

Of course you can, she clearly didn't die from a heart attack you dummy.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
29 May 2017 #48
There were two autopsies,no foul play.

you are really not sharpest knife..arent you.? no faul play established by autopsy???!!!!
autopsy merely established that she died from injured sustained from failing to ground.it didnt established,whenever she jumped herself or was pushed ,or throw out of window.it cant establish such thing for certain only by autopsy.even if she did herself..she could be drugged,,and toxicology was not performed yet
Wulkan - | 3,243
29 May 2017 #49
and toxicology was not performed yet

and leave alone that a lot of drugs that they use to spike drinks completely get out of the victim's system after 1 day.
Peeweeher
29 May 2017 #50
that the thing..she wasn't on any medication as far as we know..according to her family and friends,she haven't had any metal health problems before

She should have been on anti malaria tablets.

If she used Larium then it would explain everything.
Ironside 51 | 11,499
29 May 2017 #51
she used Larium then it would explain everything.

If she had her drinks spiked THAT would explain everything.
mafketis 32 | 10,552
29 May 2017 #52
My take on all this is that she may or may not have been diagnosed with anything but she wasn't that stable either, buying a vacation for a guy she knew only a couple of months? (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't feel likegoing back and researching).

That said, the official story doesn't make sense on a number of grounds. My best guess would be that something happened that we don't know about (yet) probably involving a spiked drink and sexual trauma (rape or attempted rape) and that sent her off (maybe due to undiagnosed mental issues) and then she was.... quieted (through action or inaction). It's very bad publicity for a place dependent on tourism to let the news out that young single western women are not safe there and I'm sure Egyptian authorities want to keep up the pretense that it's all perfectly safe.

The take away here is that young non-muslim women are not safe on their own in Egypt (or probably any muslim majority country). Middle aged women who go for sex tourism are probably safer (unless they take things too seriously and bring their sex toys home with them) but younger women should not try going on their own...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,537
29 May 2017 #53
the official story doesn't make sense on a number of grounds

What's the official story? I haven't come across it yet. The whole affair was abundantly discussed on the internet and then everything has suddently gone quiet. This is amazing that all those internet detectives went quiet on the Polish websites and shortly after that the story has re-emerged on the PolishForums.

travelling to a strange hot country could indeed be just the thing to bring it [mental health problems in young people] on

Tha's an interesting observation, Roz. Although I have never had any mental problems, my body temperature typically increases to about 41 Celsius after I move to Italy or elsewhere in the South of Europe for a holiday and remains such for about a day. The climate may exert a serious impact on the body or on the mind.

Middle aged women who go for sex tourism are probably safer

And there are plenty of middle-aged Polish women who go for that to Egypt. But the resort of Marsa Alam has the reputation of being very calm and of being chosen by retired couples who come there for rest and not for sex tourism.
mafketis 32 | 10,552
29 May 2017 #54
What's the official story? I haven't come across it yet

AFAICT she either was/was not acting weird the entire time and either began/continued acting very weird and at some point (after a trip with the resident?) was hospitalized and then jumped out of a first floor window which caused fatal injuries....

My intuition (of course not worth much) is that neither the rapid onset of mental issues nor being drugged (with or without sexual trauma) would lead to that result by itself but the combination could easily be fatal... especially if local people have an economic interest in preserving the image of a safe place for tourists.
Chemikiem
29 May 2017 #55
If she used Larium then it would explain everything.

You may well have a point there. Red Sea area is low to no risk for Malaria, but there was a local outbreak in the Aswan area in 2014, and maybe she was advised to take Malaria tablets. Lariam is known to cause problems including hallucinations and psychotic behaviour in some people. Have a read of this guys experience with it:-

theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/apr/10/experience-anti-malaria-drugs-made-me-psychotic

spiked drink and sexual trauma (rape or attempted rape)

Have a read of this which at least gives a timeline to the series of events:-

independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/fake-news-conspiracies-death-of-magdalena-zuk-in-an-egyptian-resort-rape-far-right-marsa-alam-polish-a7748971.html

She fell ill a day into her holiday, but sadly died 2 days later. Drugs used for the purpose of rape are very fast acting, they knock you out quickly. The symptoms she displayed such as hearing voices, don't seem consistent with those type of drugs to me. From what I have read, people have a job to remember much at all after having drinks spiked.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,537
29 May 2017 #56
This article of The Independent seems to provide a fair account of the story. The fake detective Rutkowski has long been known as a clown rather than a detective here, but even he admitted it was a suicide. The fact that he proposed to his girlfriend during a live TV discussion on the Zuk case must have been the climax of the story and a major blow to all the conspiration theorists which may partly explain why the case has suddenly evaporated from the Polish social media. The more surprising is that the PF has picked up on it, but this was a sort of hmm, latency, I should think.
mafketis 32 | 10,552
29 May 2017 #57
Have a read of this which at least gives a timeline to the series of events

Unimpressed with that story which had a definite agenda (egypt is safe and poles are racist!) they couldnt' even spell her boyfriend's name right...

And I'm thinking beyond rufies, other recreational subtances she might have taken of her own free will could also help trigger an episode

I'm not ruling out mental problems (the parents cannot be trusted to be objective or accurate given the stigma against mental illness in Poland) I just tend to think i was more than one thing, a kind of perfect storm...

And about that boyfriend.... Markus is not a very Polish name and I've seen claims that he's a German citizen and as such wouldn't have needed a passport, that makes me wonder if he had other reasons for not going.... police record? knowing he wouldn't be let in?
Harry
29 May 2017 #58
I've seen claims that he's a German citizen and as such wouldn't have needed a passport

You've seen claims that German citizens can travel to Egypt without a passport and you don't immediately just laugh at the source?
mafketis 32 | 10,552
29 May 2017 #59
I neither laugh at nor given unquestioned faith to it. I'm not German and am unfamiliar with German visa/passport requirements (and have no idea if he's even a German citizen or not - though Markus sounds far more German than Polish as a first name, on the other hand his last name is very Polish.

I just note things and think of hypotheses.... none of the versions make much sense in real world terms yet I'm just keeping an open mind.

even he admitted it was a suicide

Not a good word, even if the Independent's version is taken at face value it sounds more like accidental death (trying to get away) than a conscious attempt to take her own life...
jon357 69 | 18,445
29 May 2017 #60
it didnt established,whenever she jumped herself or was pushed ,or throw out of window.

The witnesses, all hospital staff, certainly did establish that she jumped out of the window while trying to flee drom a psychiatric ward.

Not a good word

Quite.


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