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2ND MIRACLE OF THE VISTULA: youth mysteriously appear out of nowhere!


gumishu 11 | 5,318
27 Jul 2017 #211
Has he been convicted yet by way of a final and unappealable sentence?

that happened in March or even before March - he should be instantly tried by the disciplinary branch of the KRS - and you say he is still suspended - seems like they are not in a hurry to get rid of him
Harry
27 Jul 2017 #212
he should be instantly tried by the disciplinary branch of the KRS - and you say he is still suspended -

A normal Pole would have those charges hanging over them for months before they got a chance to confirm their innocence; why do you want judges to get preferential treatment?
Braveheart16 18 | 200
27 Jul 2017 #213
Ironside......

Is this what you were referring to when you said that judges select themselves.....?

The National Judicial Council......A critical step in establishing the autonomy of the judicial branch was the Sejm's vote in December 1989 to create the National Judicial Council. The twenty-four member council, consisting of judges from the national, district, and local levels, serves a four-year term and has the primary function of recommending judgeship candidates to the president. Another basic function of the body is to oversee the entire judiciary and establish professional standards.

In the UK the body responsible for appointing judges is called the Judicial Appointments Commission.....They would both appear similar in composition although it would seem that the difference in the UK is that members of the commission are from many different legal backgrounds/specialisms and professions and politicians are not involved in influencing or controlling the behaviour of judges.

In view of the current proposal to address 'accountability' of judges is it really a smart move to allow politicians to control, oversee and pass judgement on judges. Do you not think that this is better carried out by professionals / lay members etc rather than politicians who come and go and whose job really should focus on politics and making Poland a better place to live. This of course does not appear very democratic and only serves to inflame the public who can smell a rat and will no doubt eventually use their right to vote in future elections.
Ironside 49 | 10,372
27 Jul 2017 #214
of judges is it really a smart move to allow politicians to control

Thing is such a control and such arrangement doesn't work in Poland. Anyhow it is not about control over judges by the politicians but about parliamentarians voting in lawyers of The NJC.

All those bodies had been created by the soviet military intelligence in Poland. It was all aimed to ensure that Poland after 1989 albeit formerly independent and free will never shake off the shackles of post-commies who reserved for themselves into a position of power in banks, and stayed on the top due to informal connections.

The NJC and other overseeing bodies very clearly do not work and criminal judges or obviously corrupt ones never faced any consequences of their ill action.

That bill set by the PiS is not perfect but is better than nothing than status quo.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
27 Jul 2017 #215
but about parliamentarians voting in lawyers of The NJC.

So it's about putting judges under the control of parliament.

The NJC and other overseeing bodies very clearly do not work and criminal judges or obviously corrupt ones never faced any consequences of their ill action.

Instead of repeating what PiS say, could you perhaps point to some clear evidence of this?

There are a handful of rotten apples in every organisation, and to claim that the entire KRS doesn't work because of a few judges is classic totalitarian thinking.

Look at PiS - we have several bad apples there. Should they be delegalised as a result? Or is it one rule for one and another rule for another?
jon357 63 | 15,045
27 Jul 2017 #216
under the control of parliament.

Under The Party, essentially. Parliament is just a tiresome necessity for them that they can't abolish yet.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
27 Jul 2017 #217
I can only wonder why Ironside seems so keen to promote rule of the Party over the rule of law.
Ironside 49 | 10,372
27 Jul 2017 #218
There are a handful of rotten apples

Is not about few rotten apple is about a fact that those rotten apples are rotting for years and decades and never faced any consequences of their crimes. So it means that the system is rotten.

could you perhaps point to some clear evidence of this?

Right, don't know the lingo? Need translation?

Under The Party

Don't be daft, it always one-party or the other.
Slogans and BS!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
28 Jul 2017 #219
delegalised

PO/PSl should be held accountable for not reforming the judiciary for 8 years, as shoukd the precdefding cabinets. Prof. Strzembosz at the start of the 90s claimed the judiciary would cleanse itself. It never did, Instead it evovled into a privileged, elitist caste.
mafketis 23 | 8,523
28 Jul 2017 #220
PO/PSl should be held accountable for not reforming the judiciary for 8 years

So.... you wish that PO had proposed the exact same package that PiS has?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
28 Jul 2017 #221
PO had proposed the exact

I don't wish a thing but can only say that as always bungling Schetyna has again missed the boat. 500+ is an incentive to have 2 or more kids and it has already produced results. Giving extra benefits to the first-born defeats the purpose becuase it encourages the 2+1 status quo which is demographically devastating.
jon357 63 | 15,045
29 Jul 2017 #222
So.... you wish that PO had proposed the exact same package that PiS has?

Interesting who they'd prosecute if they wanted to...

it always one-party or the other.

One Party only has attempted to destroy judicial independence.

And I suspect we'll see a new political grouping emerge soon, one that will make Kaczynski and Macierewicz sh1t themselves at the real meaning of the concept of total opposition...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Jul 2017 #223
One Party only has attempted

One party has attempted to perpetuate a bungling, ineffective, non-people-friendly and oft-corrupt judges' clique infiltrated by PRL-era holdovers who had sent Solidarity activists to jail for defying their Soviet-backed masters.
mafketis 23 | 8,523
29 Jul 2017 #224
PRL-era holdovers who had sent Solidarity activists to jail for defying their Soviet-backed masters

Again, some specific examples would be nice. They would make it seem like you're speaking from facts and not just parroting meaningless slogans fed to you by a propaganda minister.

If you can't give specific examples.... then you're probably blowing smoke out your 4ss
Harry
29 Jul 2017 #225
PRL-era holdovers who had sent Solidarity activists to jail for defying their Soviet-backed masters.

You mean scum like the PiSlamic State's top man in the parliament, Piotrowicz? He had people sent to prison for crimes such as distributing unauthorised newspapers.

just parroting meaningless slogans fed to you by a propaganda minister.

Old habits die hard.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Jul 2017 #226
You mean scum

No, I mean scum like Rzepliński, Gersdorf, Płóciennik, Nowak, Artymiuk, Paprzycki, Buliński et al?

niezalezna.pl/80104-komuna-w-sadzie-najwyzszym-ujawniamy-zyciorysy
jon357 63 | 15,045
29 Jul 2017 #227
Piotrowicz? He had people sent to prison for crimes such as distributing unauthorised newspapers.

Disreputable.
Ironside 49 | 10,372
29 Jul 2017 #228
One Party only has attempted to destroy judicial independence.

So called Judicial independence isn't there for its own sake. It is to safeguard judges from the illicit influence that would corrupt them and their rulings. Perverting the course of justice. Well, in Poland the course of justice has been perverted too many time in the last 27 years. Enough is enough.

Cleary 'judicial independence' is not working in Poland and some other method need to be applied.
Judges are there to do their job properly. If they are unable to sort themselves out ( as that is clary the case)- somebody has to do it for them!

Matters little who as long as the job is done.

You mean scum like the PiSlamic State's top man in the parliament, Piotrowicz?

You're a scum standing by the side of lies, soviets and corrupted scum.
jon357 63 | 15,045
29 Jul 2017 #229
It is to safeguard judges from the illicit influence that would corrupt them and their rulings

Exactly. Which us why it must not be under party control, and why so many people are coming out on the streets.

somebody has to do it for them!

Sound's like you favour the idea of People's Courts.
Ironside 49 | 10,372
29 Jul 2017 #230
Which us why it must not be under party control

Explain to me how election of the judges of the Supreme Court by the parliament is a one party control? That argument is false and BS.

Sound's like you favour the idea of People's Courts

Sure, you're a Marxist you should applaud it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
29 Jul 2017 #231
Disreputable

Thank God for Pioroiwcz, who has been repeatdedly recycled for other prominent ex-colaborators in PiS. But never fear, PO, KOD (dunnoa botu N.!), the judiciary, academia and entertainment industry are full of ex-PZPR activists, TWs and SBs.

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