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Lech Walesa gives warning over 'dangerous' Polish candidate


1jola 14 | 1,879
22 Jun 2010 #31
Why don't you watch Plusy dodatnie, plusy ujemne, and see what you can learn. The important thing is, watch it without thinking - 1jola posted it, 1jola posted it. You think you can do that?
f stop 25 | 2,513
22 Jun 2010 #32
to be honest with you, when a 'historical report' starts with some guy telling that Walesa 'dreamed up' his future position, it gave me a bad taste in my mouth. Ambition can be interpreted both ways, but you know from the start which way this 'historicel report' will be leaning. There is no attempt at objectivity from the very start. Lost me right there.

quote: "The important thing is, watch it without thinking - 1jola posted it, 1jola posted it. You think you can do that?" - you really are full of yourself, aren't you? No need.
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
22 Jun 2010 #33
SB agent Wałęsa and now you.

Let's introduce a new common practice. Twins for any man in charge. If one die we still have another spare-one, brand new competent :)
THE HITMAN - | 236
22 Jun 2010 #34
Lech Walesa gives warning over 'dangerous' Polish candidate

Danger to whom ????

Lech Walesa ???
shush 1 | 212
22 Jun 2010 #35
It would be so creepy if J.Kaczynski was a president O_o
plk123 8 | 4,150
22 Jun 2010 #36
What are everyone's thoughts on this?

smart man he is. :)
frd 7 | 1,399
22 Jun 2010 #37
well PiS is slightly left wing now as Jarek said.. makes total sense ; )
alexw68
22 Jun 2010 #38
My wish is your command:

"Times were different back then, but if we don't allow each other to forget all that, it will be bad. What I want is for things to be good. So, if someone asks me who Josef Oleksy is, I'll answer: 'He's a leftwing Polish politician in, shall we say, late middle-age'"

You can figure out for yourself the odds of whether, in real life, Kaczyński and Oleksy are on each other's Christmas card lists :)
Trevek 26 | 1,702
23 Jun 2010 #39
And you trust those files as being accurate? The Stasi and KGB were notorious for faking documents - and you trust the SB as being genuine? Please. If he had genuinely cooperated, why didn't they destroy him in the early 80's with the proof?

I saw Theatre of the 8th Day perform a piece where they had gained access to the files on themselves. They presented them on stage and showed what a joke the whole 'informer' business could be. Informers/surveillance crews often just wrote utter garbage to complete their day's work.

Likewise, if someone was held for hours on end and then made to sign a paper when they were utterly exhausted they were then classed as 'informants' or 'employees'.

I don't know what the situation with Wałęsa is/was. However, I was always puzzled as to why the oh-so-anti-communist PiS were prepared to work with giertych and his daddy when daddy giertych supported martial law (from what I'm told).
plk123 8 | 4,150
23 Jun 2010 #40
Trevek

hey, some of these fools are sure Walesa was a traitor despite of him being a mojor player in freeing PL from the iron grip of the soviets.. you will never convince them otherwise.. but i guess i shouldn't blame you for trying.. it's a good thing after all. thanks
1jola 14 | 1,879
23 Jun 2010 #41
I don't know what the situation with Wałęsa is/was.

First honest response. But it is nice that you saw a play, and your understanding of 100,000 SB agents, how historians verify them being agents, how communist documents are cross-checked, where are these people today, who they work for now, etc., are based on this funny play.

hey, some of these fools are sure Walesa was a traitor despite of him being a mojor player in freeing PL from the iron grip of the soviets.. you will never convince them otherwise.. but i guess i shouldn't blame you for trying.. it's a good thing after all.

Historians are fools, right? I gave you sources on this thread, so follow them up and make up your mind yourself. Don't listen to fools. Your opinion is based on myths, not facts.

You are like a child, who says, Santa is real, he is real, I know he is real.

As to fools, they lack knowledge, not that they are necessarily stupid, but intelectually lazy and gulible.

despite of him being a mojor player in freeing PL from the iron grip of the soviets.

Who were the other major players? Komandosi?
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
23 Jun 2010 #42
As to fools, they lack knowledge, not that they are necessarily stupid, but intelectually lazy and gulible.

And let me guess, those lazy intellectuals, gullible and all, are claiming the opposite of what you are claiming?

>^..^<

M-G (grumpy)
Torq 32 | 2,897
23 Jun 2010 #43
How can anyone be so gullible to believe that Wałęsa (agent Bolek) was in any way
a "major player" in bringing down communism?

Communists knew that the system was going to collapse soon. It was economically
and politically unsustainable. All they wanted was to ensure good life in capitalism
for them, their families and friends, and if you look at Poland today, that is exactly
what they achieved with help of thousands of agents, one of them being agent
Bolek (Lech Wałęsa) who was created by bezpieka and used by communists
to make their money and influence safe.

I mean - even if you had any doubts about it, all you have to do is listen to Wałęsa
talking about ANY subject to understand that this illiterate man could never have been
anything else than a puppet in the hands of his masters.
1jola 14 | 1,879
23 Jun 2010 #44
And let me guess, those lazy intellectuals, gullible and all, are claiming the opposite of what you are claiming?

I said intellectually lazy, not lazy intellectuals.

How can they claim something if they are too lazy to investigate? Thus, they are prone whatever shtick they are fed by mass media. Kapish, grumpy?
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
23 Jun 2010 #45
Kapish

It's capiche, by the way.

How was detention? Enlightening? And perhaps you don't want to make me grumpier than I already am. You wouldn't like me when I am grumpier than I am now.

>^..^<

M-G (grumpy)
markyfunky - | 2
23 Jun 2010 #46
Stalin said ... no matter who you vote for, we always win. This has been proven over and over. Look at the Obuma .. another puppet of illuminati.

Do u guys seriously think something will change with your vote? I say NADA.
NWO is here and all this globalization of EU, US-union, Asia-union, etc. is just another step closer to human slavery. IMHO ;)
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
23 Jun 2010 #47
Likewise, if someone was held for hours on end and then made to sign a paper when they were utterly exhausted they were then classed as 'informants' or 'employees'.

Yup. This is the major problem with lustration - we can't be certain that what's actually contained in these files is in any way accurate or truthful. One of the only reliable things is what actually happened to the person in question.

It is very strange that Kaczynski, for all his anti-communism, never found himself in serious trouble with the authorities.
f stop 25 | 2,513
23 Jun 2010 #48
good point, delph.

You are like a child, who says, Santa is real, he is real, I know he is real.

You are a miserable SOB, do you realize that? You actually think that people come here to be educated by you?? There must be a medical term for this condition.. You make every effort to make others' experience here as unpleasant as possible, you can't be as smart as you think if you don't realize that. And nobody is amused at you attempts at wit, muffin. The very first day I found this forum, you attacked the country I live in, the state I live in, grasped at any piece of personal information you could find, to attack and insult. I don't really care what personal problems are making you the way you are, but not everyone comes here to get aggrevated or to fight, so, please, try not to visit them on everyone here.
Trevek 26 | 1,702
23 Jun 2010 #49
First honest response. But it is nice that you saw a play, and your understanding of 100,000 SB agents, how historians verify them being agents, how communist documents are cross-checked, where are these people today, who they work for now, etc., are based on this funny play.

Well, that depends on if you know anything about the theatre group in question and their status during the 1970's-80's.

osmego.art.pl/t8d/main/en
krakowiak
23 Jun 2010 #50
One should give a **** about what politicians do/decide!
One should give a lot more thaught into what they won't do/decide!

And Kaczor is more likely to refrain from doing such things I can think of. This is beautifull having a president with the ultimate veto-power!
Trevek 26 | 1,702
23 Jun 2010 #51
First honest response. But it is nice that you saw a play, and your understanding of 100,000 SB agents, how historians verify them being agents, how communist documents are cross-checked, where are these people today, who they work for now, etc., are based on this funny play.

I might also comment that living in Britain, where a number of people were jailed on flawed/false evidence for a number of years for Irish Republican activities, I am well aware that just because something is 'official' doesn't always make it true.
1jola 14 | 1,879
24 Jun 2010 #52
According to you no one ever should be jailed because there is always a chance that evidence is tainted. Ever.

Let's get that clear, you few unwilling to research a subject, are repeating what SB functionaries and recruited agents are saying: There was no SB, and if there was, it was a 100,000 men document falsifying clerk department, and they should enjoy respect in today's society.

You are a miserable SOB, do you realize that? You actually think that people come here to be educated by you??

Not the ones who start threads like this:

Are surf/skate clothes popular among Polish kids?

But I'm pretty sure when I was surfing in Ponce Inlet, you were doing your ABCs.

The very first day I found this forum, you attacked the country I live in, the state I live in, grasped at any piece of personal information you could find, to attack and insult

My planed attack on United States and Florida was only prevented by your quick retaliation with your army of redneck friends.

Get this right though. You acussed my of stalking you in Florida, and only when I pointed out to you that I am in Warsaw and you put in your profile that you live in Florida, you calmed down. LOL
f stop 25 | 2,513
24 Jun 2010 #53
Not the ones who start threads like this: are surf/skate clothes popular among Polish kids?

You are a fool. You have a problem with me trying to find out if there is a market for surf/skate clothes in Poland?

I think I figured it out! You got your a$$ deported, that's why you're so miserable and down at US and FL! Hah!
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
24 Jun 2010 #54
Let's get that clear, you few unwilling to research a subject, are repeating what SB functionaries and recruited agents are saying: There was no SB, and if there was, it was a 100,000 men document falsifying clerk department, and they should enjoy respect in today's society.

Typical hysteria from a typical PiS voter.

No-one is saying that everything is false. But what they're saying is that the accuracy and reliability of the SB records are questionable - yes, they're of interest from a historical perspective, but can hardly be relied upon to provide accurate evidence.

But then again, perhaps you might want to tell us more about Kaczynski's father - rather strange that an AK soldier got his kids on television in the 60's, isn't it?
Trevek 26 | 1,702
24 Jun 2010 #55
According to you no one ever should be jailed because there is always a chance that evidence is tainted. Ever.

Wow, I wonder where you got that from. I never said that at all. Neither did I say I had never done any research or read any articles... I comment on some theatre performers who were harrassed during the 1970's and 1980's by the security forces and you say they have nothing relevant to say... You also patronisingly assume that is all I have read or all I have gleaned from conversation with people over 12 years in Poland (sorry, never been to US).

Let's get that clear, you few unwilling to research a subject, are repeating what SB functionaries and recruited agents are saying: There was no SB, and if there was, it was a 100,000 men document falsifying clerk department, and they should enjoy respect in today's society.

The way you are distorting comments and making rather presumptious comments kind of shows how things can be distorted. Perhaps your SB friends could learn from you.
plk123 8 | 4,150
25 Jun 2010 #56
agent bolek? the court has stricken such a theory and yet you still believe it? hmm..
1jola 14 | 1,879
25 Jun 2010 #57
The courts also say Jaruzelski and Kiszczak are blameless. Adam Michnik calls them ' the men of honor'(sic). "Progressive" people bathe in his wisdom spewed in his Gazeta Wyborcza, also known as:

m

What does that tell you about the reform of the justice system in Poland anyway?
Trevek 26 | 1,702
25 Jun 2010 #58
Of course they're all guilty... they're politicians, they must be guilty of something.

The courts also say Jaruzelski and Kiszczak are blameless. Adam Michnik calls them ' the men of honor'(sic).

using the logic you used against me... you are saying nobody should be believed innocent because the courts could be wrong... and therefore nobody should be found guilty because the courts could be wrong.

Hang 'em all, let god sort 'em out.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
25 Jun 2010 #59
Of course not all the files were accurate. There were deliberately planted fałszywki amongst them. That would have caused a lot of ruckus and confusion for 2-3 years until the matter got cleared up, but then it would have been over. By sweeping things under the rug, theSB files issue will keep resurfacing again and again for years to come.
plk123 8 | 4,150
26 Jun 2010 #60
the courts could be wrong

are... :rolleyes:


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