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Lech Kaczyński statue in Warsaw?


delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
16 Feb 2011 #31
How about spending taxpayers money to support parties?

The Government actually wanted to put a stop to it. No argument from me - they should fund themselves.

Or sending soldiers to Afghanistan and all?

Lech was a fan, as I recall.
Ironside 51 | 11,337
16 Feb 2011 #32
Lech was a fan, as I recall.

So?
Harry
16 Feb 2011 #33
Lech was a fan, as I recall.

I could really do with a cold Lech right now.
jonni 16 | 2,485
16 Feb 2011 #34
As they announced it on the news:

The Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, was among 96 people killed when their plane crashed in Smolensk, west Russia. Over half of the population have choosen to gather outside Trafalgar square to mourn his passing.

Harry
16 Feb 2011 #35
Over half of the population have choosen

The Gaurdian by any chance?
landora - | 199
16 Feb 2011 #36
How about spending taxpayers money to support parties? Or sending soldiers to Afghanistan and all?

We are talking about the statue here. I'ma against all sorts of bureaucracy, also against sending our soldiers to Afghanistan. Parties should found themselves. But the topic of the thread was "should we fund a statue for the late president?".

My answer is "no, we shouldn't". If Marta wants to, she can pay for it herself.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
16 Feb 2011 #37
Father Director can pay it from his geotehermal funds :))))
I read somewhere that there was going to be a referendum here in Warsaw for this monstrosity. Good. I guess 80% or so will be sensible and tell "no". Why can't the cross loonies pay it by themselves and put it somewhere on some church ground?
Ironside 51 | 11,337
17 Feb 2011 #38
Father Director

What it is to you? you loony loon?

My answer is "no, we shouldn't". If Marta wants to, she can pay for it herself.

Well, if parliament will vote in favour then you will have to pay for that !
landora - | 199
17 Feb 2011 #39
Well, if parliament will vote in favour then you will have to pay for that !

Obviously. Not that I will ever agree with this.
If PO votes in favour of this, I will truly consider voting Palikot next time!
Ironside 51 | 11,337
17 Feb 2011 #40
If PO votes in favour of this, I will truly consider voting Palikot next time!

How about changes which would enable citizens to have a say in a tax matters !
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Feb 2011 #41
Swiss direct democracy?

Not a bad idea. You'd have to adjust it for the Polish population, so perhaps something around 500,000 signatures to force a referendum?

I'm game.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
17 Feb 2011 #42
Maybe it should be built actual size. that way nobody will notice it. It will be a fine testament to a man whose physical stature matched his political stature.
mafketis 35 | 11,188
17 Feb 2011 #43
Maybe it should be built actual size. --- a fine testament to a man whose physical stature matched his political stature.

Now that is cruel. Accurate, but cruel.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Feb 2011 #44
It will be a fine testament to a man whose physical stature matched his political stature.

The worst thing about him is that Jaroslaw Kaczynski seems hell bent on making sure that people remember him for all the wrong reasons. All the good stuff that he did, such as improving Polish-Jewish relations and supporting the Orange Revolution decisively will be long forgotten - all because his brother is well and truly off the rails.
Ironside 51 | 11,337
17 Feb 2011 #45
It will be a fine testament to a man whose physical stature

Do you have complexes h1c ?Are you short ass? What his physicality has to do with anything ?
If anything you have to give the guy his due, he overcome being dwarfish, having ugly gob and slurred speech, and become successful in politics - where unfortunately nowadays politicians are sold by the dozen on TV - smooth talking, good looking intellectual blobs and moral zeros !

You think size - think Napoleon :)

Not a bad idea.

No taxes without citizens vote (referendum if you may)!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
17 Feb 2011 #46
supporting the Orange Revolution decisively will be long forgotten - all because his brother is well and truly off the rails.

I thought that was Kwasniewski-he was actually the mediator. Although I can I can understand him trying to take credit for it, he is that type of person.

quote=mafketis]Now that is cruel. Accurate, but cruel.[/quote]

I am absolutely astounded how careless, stupid, irresponsible and downright embarrassing the PIS mob is. everything that they do is motivated by pure self interest, they have no love of country.

No taxes without citizens vote (referendum if you may)!

You do realize that that is how the Commonwealth partly fell apart?
isthatu2 4 | 2,702
17 Feb 2011 #47
Your all missing a trick....they want a staute of this fella,fine,spray paint his brother gold and stand him in the old town square,he might even make a few zloty from the tourists.....
Ironside 51 | 11,337
17 Feb 2011 #48
verything that they do is motivated by pure self interest, they have no love of country.

Any examples ?

You do realize that that is how the Commonwealth partly fell apart?

The idea was a right one, only implementing had its flows, namely executive officer who couldn't understand the system amd wanted monarchy modelled on French or Spanish examples!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
17 Feb 2011 #49
Any examples ?

Why thank you for the opportunity.

1. Reduction in the number of members of parliament from 460 to a lower number.

A PO policy which PIS does not support-cos they are self interested and the PIS pigs want to keep their snouts in the troth.

2. PO voted in favor of a reduction in Party funding by the taxpayer by 50%, and PIS voted against the policy because the PIS pigs wanted to keep their self interested snouts in the troth.

Do you want more examples?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Feb 2011 #50
You could mention the witchhunts against political enemies as being the grandest self-indulgent exercise possible.

Then again, when Jaroslaw got the ABW on the case of his political allies, that really was taking it slightly too far.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
17 Feb 2011 #51
A good example, funny though because when it comes to issues of petty corruption, PIS seems to top the list. I remember an investigation into the rorting of travel expenses by members of parliament, and low and behold if memory serves me right, the top 5 were members of PIS.

Another example of PIS is their irrepressible approach to politics, I was so angry when Macierwicz called Klich-the Defence Minister a traitor.

Or when Hoffman said that PO was trying to build its politics on the Katyn lie, just like the Soviets had done. To even make that comparison....... it's just lower than low.

I felt the same as Olbrychski-the actor, in wanting to publicly punch them in the face (publicnie po mordzie bic)
Ironside 51 | 11,337
17 Feb 2011 #52
Do you want more examples?

Well, only the last point has a merit. The rest is just general rumbling on a tune - what a bad apple that PiS is !

I would like to ask you where from you do you gather your information?
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
18 Feb 2011 #53
I think that the question should be reversed, and asked of you instead.

I get my information from the Sejm website, I keep track of all the legislation that is put forward before the Sejm.

I read the propsed polices of the the respective parties on their webistes.

Watch TVN, POLSAT,

I read Gazeta Wyborca+Rzeczpospolita
Ironside 51 | 11,337
18 Feb 2011 #54
Watch TVN, POLSAT,

I read Gazeta Wyborca+Rzeczpospolita

Great, so you will learn that PiS is bad, when there is rain and hail, sure like hell you can blame PiS for that!

I don't watch TV and seldom read newspapers, my perception of both party's is based on my previous experiences and analyses. I have also noticed that mass media clouded for a time being even my judgement, what to say about lesser minds.:)

My conclusion PiS is a party who want to do change and PO is a party who is happy with the present situation in Poland. Also, they are bending backwoods to accommodate German-French duo, and it mean to accommodate Russia as well, even if the price are Poland interests!

Sure they will have a good press, they are obedient servants, but tell me, who is paying for all that ?
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
20 Feb 2011 #55
I have also noticed that mass media clouded for a time being even my judgement, what to say about lesser minds.:)

That seems to be a bit of a problem, because that means that you are not a very well informed individual, who seems to base his political instincts on a hunch, or to be more precise you seem to be willing to cast your vote for someone who shouts the loudest. No offence, but for someone who seems to be a bit of a smart guy, you do come across as really obtuse and incapable of change on this issue.

So in all seriousness, which particular PIS polices appeal to you so much?

My conclusion PiS is a party who want to do change and PO is a party who is happy with the present situation in Poland.

Your conclusion would be wrong, it is PO who wants to implement faster reforms and is impatient for faster change. PIS on the the other hand is determined to preserve the present situation, as evidenced by the late president's determination to block every PO reform. And the recently announced PIS policy of slowing and in some cases blocking privatization.

are bending backwoods to accommodate German-French duo

Is it really such a bad think to behave in a mature way and desire better relations with your neighbors in your eyes?

Setting aside ideological differences, no matter what ideology you have you have to have the administrative abilities and political talent to bring about change, which is the same principle for any organisation. So my question to you is, where are the talented PIS people to implement their policies and govern the county competently?

Can they find a finance minister who is fluent in 4 different languages, has experience of working in other countries and has two doctorates to his name, one of which happens to be in economics from the London School of Economics?

Can they find a Foreign minister, who has strong connections to the States and the UK, whose wife bats on his behalf in the American papers and has close connections to the US government? A minister who happens to have a very interesting life, as you can find out, if you bother to read one of his books. And who happens to be quite respected on the EU political scene.

And what do you think of that great PIS idea of pumping money into the economy during the crisis, which PO rejected, and which would have meant the Poland would probably resemble another Spain or Portugal today. Would you still be such a great PIS supporter if they had their way and the idea was implemented?

Finally do you feel comfortable supporting a party that is beholden to the whims and decisions of one man, who sacks anybody who happens to disagree with him?
Ironside 51 | 11,337
21 Feb 2011 #56
That seems to be a bit of a problem, because that means that you are not a very well informed individual, who seems to base his political instincts on a hunch,

I would say that my political choices are based more on careful consideration rather, than on sensational and biased media newsflashes.
My political choices are not a blind follower or a clannish frenzy, which seems to be unfortunately a brand mark of politicly active part of the Polish society.

I have criteria by which I determine which party or organization have a pro-Polish agenda. If you may, I have predetermined set of things I expect from a political party to implement, which I consider being a Poland's best interest.

So in all seriousness, which particular PIS polices appeal to you so much?

Attempt to make Poland an independent or at last less dependent political entity, for example: Going against Franco-German axis project's of the Baltic pipeline to Russia. This project is a such hostile act against Poland and all Baltic states that is clear sign for me that any government of Poland being silent about that, is simply not Polish government but government for Poles.

Even Sweden recognizes import of said pipeline as a potentially dangerous for her security.

Your conclusion would be wrong, it is PO who wants to implement faster reforms and is impatient for faster change. PIS on the the other hand is determined to preserve the present situation, as evidenced by the late president's determination to block every PO reform. And the recently announced PIS policy of slowing and in some cases blocking privatization.

Excuse me>? what reforms?In-debt Poland by a next billion dollars ?Maybe you mean sell-out what's still belongs to Polish state? Maybe another ten of thousand new bureaucrats employed by Po? I don't call that a reform but bollocks!

See, your media watch didn't do you good, you are repeating slogans and excuses, not the real reason, PO big changes its baloney.

Is it really such a bad think to behave in a mature way and desire better relations with your neighbors in your eyes?

What don't you bend backwoods when your neighbour from nearby prison will implore you to be a good and mature neighbour and if you desire good relations with them - you have to do what they say!

So my question to you is, where are the talented PIS people to implement their policies and govern the county competently?

Hey ! I'm not PiS and I don't even like that party that much - I vote on them because I have no choice, other party's are worse.

Can they find a finance minister who is fluent in 4 different languages, has experience of working in other countries and has two doctorates to his name, one of which happens to be in economics from the London School of Economics?

Good qualification for a secretary for a finance minister, does he have anything to say in those four languages which cannot say in one?

Can they find a Foreign minister, who has strong connections to the States and the UK, whose wife bats on his behalf in the American papers and has close connections to the US government?

Does he ? Where are his allies or protectors ? What good they did for Poland ? Did they buy old planes from Poland for 4 billions dollars ?eh? Was a other way around ?So, which side he is on?

A minister who happens to have a very interesting life, as you can find out, if you bother to read one of his books.

His self-promoting book about his exploration of Afghanistan in 80s, he forgotten to mention his work for certain intelligence agency.

Finally do you feel comfortable supporting a party that is beholden to the whims and decisions of one man, who sacks anybody who happens to disagree with him?

Better than a man who cannot sack nobody because is only a puppet on the strings! :)
Trevek 26 | 1,702
21 Feb 2011 #57
I don't think a personal monument is especially called for. It might be had his nitwit brother not sqandered the opportunity for creating a positive national unity with his half-baked witch hunts. But I don't want Jaroslaw to have more opportunities to use his brother's corpse for political gain. It's an ugly spectacle and the sooner it's ended the better.

I agree. It's enough that there are new street names and little monuments springing up everywhere.
As well as this, it will mean Jaroslaw will also have to be made as an accompanying statue when he dies...
jonni 16 | 2,485
21 Feb 2011 #58
As well as this, it will mean Jaroslaw will also have to be made as an accompanying statue when he dies...

Nah, they'd just make a copy. Who'd notice the difference?
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
22 Feb 2011 #59
And what do you think of that great PIS idea of pumping money into the economy during the crisis, which PO rejected, and which would have meant the Poland would probably resemble another Spain or Portugal today.

Is there a reason for you not answering the above question?

careful consideration

I don't see how they can be carefully considered seeing as you choose to block nearly all sources of information, You can listen to the media and deploy your inbuilt crap detactor at the same time can't you?
Ironside 51 | 11,337
22 Feb 2011 #60
Nah, they'd just make a copy. Who'd notice the difference?

cats !


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