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Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?!


Bzibzioh
18 Apr 2010 #271
other times there are explicit instructions to kill people for mistakes.

So the fifth commandment "Do not kill" was just a joke?

Plus I like Jesus. He brings me presents for Christmas ;)
slo 1 | 52
19 Apr 2010 #272
Just to express my condolences in this grievous day from thousands and thousands of Ukrainians mourning today with Polish people> And yes, I guess any president died on duty for his country deserves to be parishes as a king.
convex 20 | 3,978
19 Apr 2010 #273
So the fifth commandment "Do not kill" was just a joke?

Apparently.

Exodus 21:15

He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Proverbs 30:17
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.

Psalm 137:9
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

But you know, you're free to pick and choose, unless you're a Catholic. The Council of Trent has already made it clear that you can't pick and choose. Maybe a good conversation to have on a Sunday afternoon.

Just out of curiosity, how do you keep the Sabbath holy?
bolek 6 | 330
19 Apr 2010 #274
Thanks for all your comments on this issue Seanus, in a roundabout way I hear what you say and generally agree, its time people understand that no person is perfect and even great people have made mistakes, in the case of Kaczynski he held the interest of the Polish people at heart, continued to carry the banner of those great people before him who fought for a sovereign Poland who are buried at Wawel today.

There have been quite a lot of nasty comments about Kaczynski on this forum, from my neck of the woods, I have only heard positive comments that put him on the highest level.

I don't doubt that I would hear negative comments from old people who congregate in parks sharing bottles of cheap wine without the need of using glasses.

Undoubted Seanus you live in Poland not because it is perfect (and it is not) but because of the spirit of that great country, you are indeed a smart person.
convex 20 | 3,978
19 Apr 2010 #275
in the case of Kaczynski he held the interest of the Polish people at heart

Well, some Polish people. That's one of the reasons he was fairly decisive and ended up becoming an unpopular president.

I don't doubt that I would hear negative comments from old people who congregate in parks sharing bottles of cheap wine without the need of using glasses.

You would never hear a bad word uttered from the guys that hang out in front of corner shop. Possibly his most ardent supporters. They seem to buy into populism and nationalism even quicker than most people.
1jola 14 | 1,879
19 Apr 2010 #276
Possibly his most ardent supporters. They seem to buy into populism and nationalism even quicker than most people.

I wish you foreigners would stop philosophying about what Polish people think. He was a very poppular president for Polish patriots and looked after our interests, but not for ex-communists and guests like you who have no interest in BÓG, HONOR i OJCZYZNA. The fallen at Katyń stood for that. To you lefties it is an alien concept worthy of only ridicule and destruction.

Your ilk, the GW readers and the "progressives", are so far removed from the Polish traditions we try to pass on to future generations, and try to whitewash the criminal enterprise called socialism and every criminal associated with it. Absence of Walesa at the funeral is telling that he wants to remain loyal to his ex-employers, although Kwas and Oleksy came. Kwas was even sober.
convex 20 | 3,978
19 Apr 2010 #277
I wish you foreigners would stop philosophying about what Polish people think. He was a very poppular president for Polish patriots and looked after our interests, but not for ex-communists and guests like you who have no interest in BÓG, HONOR i OJCZYZNA. The fallen at Katyń stood for that. To you lefties it is an alien concept worthy of only ridicule and destruction.

Alright, do a test. Head over to the guys standing around drinking in front of the corner shop...ask them what they thought about Kaczynski, I'm sure you'll get glowing praise. Even a week ago.

We foreigners are making observations. I guess that's hard to swallow for people wrapped up in their politics. Anyway, yea, I'm a lefty, real far off to the left... There is a different between being a true conservative and being a populist nationalist. Huge difference. That is probably the reason for his approval ratings before he died, as well as why PiS lost the elections. God, honor, and homeland are all good, but fix the f*cking roads. How about making it easier to do business? NFZ reforms anyone?

Not saying that PO is doing any better of a job, but the race to the bottom isn't all that impressive.

Kaczynski would quickly get vicious when it came to politics, Lech was at least more reserved there compared to his brother. If you don't agree with someone politically, denounce them!

Anyway, for you and the 20% of Poles who still supported Kaczynski, I'm sorry for your loss. I think he was a good guy, believed in what he said, wasn't that great of a statesman and in the end didn't really get much done for the average Pole.

There is a reason the church attendance is on the decline. People are moving from the countryside to the cities and realizing that the Church isn't the only social club around, and their neighbors won't ostracize them for not being there. Politically, it's probably the wrong horse to hitch up to if you want to reflect the changing attitude here.

Anyway, I will keep blurting out what I think, even if you don't agree with it. Maybe if I changed my tone and supported your political position, you might not have an issue with me voicing my opinion?
jonni 16 | 2,485
19 Apr 2010 #278
stop philosophying about what Polish people think. He was a very poppular president

20% approval ratings. So in fact unpopular.

BÓG, HONOR i OJCZYZNA

This appeared not long ago as grafitti on a newly painted wall near me. No doubt scrawled by PiS supporters.

the GW readers and the "progressives",

You mean the cultural and intellectual elite.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Apr 2010 #279
Thanks, bolek. I try to be but it doesn't always come off ;)

The spirit will come from the youth. Old people are battleaxes in whichever country you look at. Poland isn't burdened by the fractious division between the old generation and the young generation. There will always be a difference to some level, that much is natural. However, it's far more pronounced in Japan and they are currently undergoing a transformation.

The Polish spirit is more visible. The Japanese are more, um, Borgish about things. I just hope that Komorowski convinces Tusk to invest in the younger generation here. I fear the worst as he is an old fuddyduddy.
anton888 - | 82
19 Apr 2010 #280
He was a very poppular president for Polish patriots

In fact he was supported by majority of Pole who has foreign citizenship, especially those in the USA. I think this made perfect sense, those Poles in general are very patriot in their heart, most of them left Poland because of the communist, and now reached the retirement age and sitting in their "new" home and thinking about the past. When someone put prioirty in seaching/accusing anyone who were in power during communist time, he of course gain all the support as other matters (economic, education, influstructure) don't affect them anyway..

However, ppl that live in Poland, and wanting a better future, only 20% support him.
landora - | 199
19 Apr 2010 #281
Darling, I'm not a foreigner and I'm a patriot. I am also Catholic, and I used to be a scout (harcerka).
I was never a communist, nor a leftie.
I see the presidency of Lech Kaczyński as complete failure. I was ashamed of him - many times. I think he was a tool in his brother's hands, a weak politician, a poor president.

And no tragic death in the world is going to make me forget this.
I'm very very upset about all this what happened in Katyń. I know what happened 70 years ago as well. Still, I do not think Mr. Kaczyński has done enough to deserve burial in Wawel. He was not a hero. He hasn't done anything for me - or for Poland.

I just hope his evil brother is not going to become our next president...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Apr 2010 #282
Let's just hope that the mohair beret aren't out in their droves come election day :)
pgtx 30 | 3,158
19 Apr 2010 #283
I just hope his evil brother is not going to become our next president...

Let's just hope that the mohair beret aren't out in their droves come election day :)

i'm affraid that's the scenario... :/
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Apr 2010 #284
Well, I hope eggs and flour are thrown at them as they are a waste of space! ;) ;) ;)
lesser 4 | 1,311
19 Apr 2010 #285
Decalogue? Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term.

Wild, wild west :) Google it.

So doctrine leaves no room for judgment?

Unlike protestants we believe in authority of Vatican. We don't pretend to be skilled theologians.

What can we glean from the Catechisms?

Christian wisdom :)

The Koran doesn't teach that in certain parts. It is just misunderstood by those who act in the name of Islam.

Did you read Koran?

But you know, you're free to pick and choose, unless you're a Catholic. The Council of Trent has already made it clear that you can't pick and choose. Maybe a good conversation to have on a Sunday afternoon.

You think that you know something about Catholicism but this is simply not true. You may quote Old Testament as much as you want but this is Protestant thing to be stuck to Old Testament. Catholic recognize Old Testament as mush as Old Testament is in agreement with values of New Testament. The rest is rejected.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Apr 2010 #286
OK, let's see what Will Smith said :)

What is so good about the Vatican in your opinion? Protestants don't either, only theologians do ;) ;)

Aha, so wisdom that Protestants share as Christians, right? ;)

Never heard of that author :0 :) The Koran? Not really, no. I was watching a documentary at the time on it.
lesser 4 | 1,311
19 Apr 2010 #287
What is so good about the Vatican in your opinion?

Vatican provide one reasonable interpretation of Biblical texts. The fact that the Pope is the head of the church on earth underline universal character of Christianity, reduce the factor of national/ethnic tension among believers. Vatican is uniting factor. Influence of secular state on clergy is highly reduced because they must listen to Pope. This is not Anglicanism where Prime Minister chose bishops :) If Tusk would demand such right, people would think that he is totally nuts. :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 Apr 2010 #288
The Pope changes, Jesus didn't!

Need I say more? ;) ;)
pawian 175 | 13,563
17 Feb 2013 #289
Kaczynski to be buried at Wawel ?!

He was buried there and today it has ceased to raise any controversy.

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