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Is Jarosław Kaczyński the new Lech Wałęsa?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
18 Jan 2016 #61
You just said there wasn't a change over the last 26 years

There were plenty of fruits and goodies for privileged cliques, whose members and supproters are in KOD ta present. The benefits were not spread throughout the country.

violence

I was merely responding to Delph's suggestion of physical violence. He expressed the view (hope?) that the miliatry would forcibly remove Kaczyński from office if a referendum were held.
jon357 63 | 14,137
19 Jan 2016 #62
He would have to be genuinely liked by a majority of the population for that to happen, rather than being treated as a demi-god by 30% and strongly disliked by the rest.

And with (literally) Legions of soldiers behind him. I wonder what the current military think of the situation - they aren't generally PiS supporters.

Plus of course Piłsudski's brother was a good person with high ideals and political skill; Jarosław's was the opposite.
Borsukrates 5 | 131
19 Jan 2016 #63
One explanation - why PiS tries to trash Lech Wałęsa and others - is that PiS is trying to write its founding myth.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
19 Jan 2016 #64
trash Lech Wałęsa

Probably because Wałęsa made the biggest mistake of hsi career in 1992 when he overturned the government of Jan Olszewski and put paid to any meaningful attempt at de-communisation. His motivation was stricly personal -- to quash the Bolek connection. As a result ex-commies became Poland's "haves" and many of their Solidarity opponents the "have-nots". Ex-commies returned to power and even captured the presidency. That could not have occurred if a 10-year ban on public office had been imposed on senior members of the Soviet-backed regime such as Miller, Kwaśiwski, Czarzasty and others.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,725
19 Jan 2016 #65
Of course, Polonius conveniently forgets to mention that Jarosław was also heavily involved.

wprost.pl/ar/327090/Kurski-Kaczynski-skorzystal-na-upadku-rzadu-Olszewskiego/

Jaroslaw Kaczynski is presented today as an ardent supporter of the government of Jan Olszewski

It was the direct opposite. Olszewski was the Prime Minister on behalf of the Center Agreement, he was their candidate from Warsaw that took second place (first place was Kaczynski, and the third Glapiński). When Olszewski became Prime Minister, he began to build their camp at the expense of Kaczynski and his colleagues from the Center Agreement. He fought for the leadership of the party. Olszewski has not been able to build his government , because Kaczynski continually tried to take the initiative and build a majority.

As always with PiS, they have a strong habit of distorting the truth. As above...

(Those who love watching the lies of PiS might wish to note that Kurski is now boss of TVP)

One explanation - why PiS tries to trash Lech Wałęsa and others - is that PiS is trying to write its founding myth.

I think so too. They are a party built on hate, and that hatred comes out towards anyone that opposes them. I'm almost certain that if it was revealed that JPII said that Kaczyński was a poisonous individual, they would build some cult against him too.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
19 Jan 2016 #66
Kurski is now boss of TVP

So Kaczyński is apparently not as toxic and vengeful as the losers and trough defenders make him out to be.
Kaczyński was loyal to Olszewski down to the end. If the latter's demise indirectly benefited Kaczyński, such is the stuff of politics. Irony and apparent incongruity are part and parcel of the game.

For exmaple, on the surface of things ex-commies and pro-banking interests are about as strange bedfellows as one can imagine. But when a trough is involved they can readily join forces as they haev done in KOD.

BTW why is no Delph or other trough defender attacking turncoat Niesiołowski? His disloyalty also comes out in the article you cited.
G (undercover)
19 Jan 2016 #67
One explanation - why PiS tries to trash Lech Wałęsa

Perhaps because he is a friggin imbecile and a tool of traitors ?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,725
19 Jan 2016 #68
So Kaczyński is apparently not as toxic and vengeful as the losers and trough defenders make him out to be.

Don't forget that Kurski's 'legitimacy' in the eyes of the right wing makes him a useful puppet at TVP.

Kaczyński was loyal to Olszewski down to the end.

Kaczyński wasn't loyal to Olszewski. That's the modern narrative, but the reality was rather different.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
19 Jan 2016 #69
Kaczyński wasn't loyal

Somehow no-one saw Kaczyński amongst the nocturnal conspriators of 1992, but Tusk, Kwaśniewski, Pawlak and Wałęsa were there.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,725
19 Jan 2016 #70
Somehow no-one saw Kaczyński amongst the nocturnal conspriators of 1992

Are you seriously suggesting that a biased documentary is historical evidence as to whether someone was there or not?

Olszewski's government was a mess, and I'm not surprised that Kaczyński was manipulating things in the background to try and put together a viable majority in order to support Wałęsa. It was only afterwards that Kaczyński really started to fall out with him.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
19 Jan 2016 #71
Kaczyński really started to fall out with him.

Yes, only after Wałęsa overturned the Olszewski govt. It was the Kaczyński Bros that created the Wałęsa presidency. After he turned out to be two-faced sh*t concerend only about his personal reputation who tried to nip de-communisation in the bud did they see the light.
OP mafketis 21 | 7,388
19 Jan 2016 #72
tried to nip de-communisation in the bud

De-communization is a long and difficult process not a cheap media event made by releasing unvetted lists to the press or by pushing through poorly conceived laws. My working assumption would be that a person who simply compiles a list and releases it has something to hide themselves.

To the extent that what Olszewski was doing was de-communization it should have been nipped in the bud because it wasn't a reasoned process built on the rule of law but more like a clown rodeo in vvhoretown.

And... why do the most fervent anti-communists assume that the communists were superbly accurate and superbly honest record keepers? Given the way communism worked in every other sphere of life I think that communist files need to be treated with a lot of suspicion. SB recruiters who were expected to make quotas probably just made a lot of crap up and once they saw the handwriting on the wall then they probably added in a few fake files.
Harry
19 Jan 2016 #73
Friend of mine came within days of marrying the daughter of a former high-up member of the SB. Apparently then the writing was on the wall a lot of officers took home files in the hope of having blackmail material for later; the smarter ones just helped themselves to blank forms and the appropriate stamps.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
19 Jan 2016 #74
accurate and superbly honest record

Neither accurate nor honest, in fact there were probably "falsies" (fałszywki) planted to incriminate some innocent people. Morever, Kiszczak oversaw the deliberate destruction of many classified documents at the papermill in Konstancin when the regime's collapse became obvious. So it was a mess. But within a year of two of intensive effort most of the chaff could have been eliminated and a majority of files could have been properly vetted. Sweeping it all under the rug has resulted in this same dead horse being flogged a quarter of a century on and probably in decades to come. What is the cost of that in terms of time, idle debate,newsprint, money, human effort and nervous tension all of which could have been channelled into more constructive pursuits.

Kaczyński

I realise nothing positive about Kaczyński will ever cross your lips (biased, one-track individuals are incapable of that!), but did you know that in 1992 Kaczyński's Centre Accord (PC) was the only party with no SB collaborators in their ranks.


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