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Is Jarosław Kaczyński the new Lech Wałęsa?


mafketis 17 | 6,756    
26 Jul 2010  #1
Lately the surviving Kaczyński twin seems to be taking over Lech Wałęsa's habit of saying things that don't make any rational or logical sense whatever.

Famously, in reference to people who refer to the Smolensk disaster as 'zbrodnia' (crime, murder) he said (rough translation): "It may not meet the legal definition of zbrodnia, but it fits the colloquial meaning."

Does anyone else have any idea what (if anything) that was supposed to mean?

I asked a few Poles (all very well educated) what that was supposed to mean and none of them had a clue. I'm reminded of "Jestem za a nawet przeciw" (I'm so in favor of it I'm even against it".
Seanus 15 | 19,716    
27 Jul 2010  #2
It's quite obvious what he means and any intelligent person can see that. I'll give you a clue. I predicted Nigel Farage would have his food poisoned and I was wrong. However, I was just looking at a practicality, any way at which he could be harmed. As it turned out, his airplane mysteriously crashed. This despite a VERY experienced pilot at the helm. It's all too clear how it works and the sentiment, therefore, should be clear too.
OP mafketis 17 | 6,756    
27 Jul 2010  #3
It's quite obvious what he means and any intelligent person can see that.

Well if he's suggesting foul play then that would be zbrodnia in the legal sense. So we're back to him not making any sense.

My best guess is that he's trying to stoke his base by rumblings about foul deeds that only he can make right and/or working off some personal guilt feelings since IIRC the alternate Katyn ceremony was at least partly his idea.

For the record for the nth time: I'm open to the idea that foul play was involved but have been unimpressed with the 'evidence' claimed so far. A person would have to be an idiot or in deep denial to believe the official 9/11 story, but if foul play was involved in Smolensk it was a lot more subtle and better carried out.

Regarding Farage, that's a far more likely scenario (is there any evidence beyond convenience?) I absolutely assume Paul Wellstone and David Kelly (among others) were deep sixed.
Benjaminpm 2 | 8    
27 Jul 2010  #4
A person would have to be an idiot or in deep denial to believe the official 9/11 story

And to think... I had had such a bright start to my WWA day... but now I am being told I am an idiot. Thank you very much Mafketis for taking the wind out of my sails...

;)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,378    
27 Jul 2010  #5
He is just a well meaning though stupid peasant with a chip on his shoulder. Don't even try to understand him he is becoming an increasingly bitter and twisted individual, he sees his own interest as the national interest. He thinks that he and Poland is one and the same, if that were the case i would not bother going to Poland.
Seanus 15 | 19,716    
27 Jul 2010  #6
True enough, mafketis. It's by no means as clear when it comes to Smoleńsk. I just feel that they didn't guide them in well enough but I felt that the Poles dug their own hole. They were smug and cocky and they told ATC 'watch how real pilots do it'. We saw, alright ;)

Sth like debestka (we are the best) was said. LOL, not now.
greenlulu7 - | 14    
27 Jul 2010  #7
most Poles living in Poland are ashamed because of opinions and theories told by Kaczynski. Everybody knows what did he mean, he is just anti-Russia, anti-Germany, anti...anti everything. So maybe the best solution is just not listen to him ;]
Ironside 47 | 9,503    
27 Jul 2010  #8
most Poles living in Poland are ashamed because of opinions and theories told by Kaczynski.

why? Are hey timid, brainless, complex ridden serfs ?
polonius 56 | 421    
6 Oct 2012  #9
Merged: Kaczyński speaks in Białystok

Kaczyński in Białystok: “I see there is leadership in Poland as shown by the big march in Warsaw last week. Poles have had it up to here. It’s high time because for 5 years we have been ruled by those who don’t know how to rule. They also lack deeper values and patriotism. To rule one must love one’s nation, love Poles, all Poles regardless of where they’re from and where they’re from and where they were born. The point is not to divide the people, not concentrate one’s attention on a few metropolitan areas and neglect the rest. A good government is one that treats Poles as a community and promotes social and inter-regional solidarity. Is that what this government is like? Has it built all the motorways, has it solved the health situation and education… When they took power it was a good time, we left them a Poland in good shape… A government also must also promote Polish interests in the international arena. I don’t mean a plan for Tusk to become chairman of the EC… Paying for CO2 is like a second tax. That should have been vetoed straight away but wasn’t. Only when they tried to increase the charges was there a veto. And nothing happened, nothing blew up, as Tusk had warned initially... To defend those interests a government is needed. But there are three more years till the next election. They’ve got a small advantage in parliament… Already in the 1920s there was a non-parliamentary government also during a crisis. The Grabski govt stabilized Poland’s situation. Can we not resort to that solution today? We have decided try. Everyone admits this govt is bad, even PO MPs. There is hope that many of them will be guided by patriotic motives or by their own political interests. We are not guided by any particular interests. If everything collapsed, that would drop into our sack. But we are patriots. Power is not the goal, it is only an instrument. We have therefore found someone totally unconnected with us…we only know he is honest and competent, he may differ from us. It is a question of him being acceptable to other political forces. This can end that tragic Polish-Polish war…. Prof. Gliński, a centrist, may be the one to shoulder that heavy responsibility at a time of crisis. In the weeks ahead we will do everything possible and approach all MPs. We will explain that those who don’t vote for it will bear responsibility for the last 5 years, for all the scams… We are not pushing for power. We want a neutral government to further Polish interests. Poles must become convinced the government is working in the interests of all society not some elitist coteries… We can develop at a rate of 7% a year but we must throw off the rucksack full of stones which is pulling us down. Tusk promised to cast it away but didn’t. Only PiS can do that so we must use our chance. We cannot wait 3 years. That’s why I came here. Each of you taking part in the awakening process can contribute. We should all urge our friends, neighbours and mates to awaken and join the march.”

one big quote and no source/link
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170    
6 Oct 2012  #10
We can develop at a rate of 7% a year but we must throw off the rucksack full of stones which is pulling us down.

True.
polonius 56 | 421    
6 Oct 2012  #11
Grzegorz_
The source is Kaczyński as baadcast live by TVN24. In other words, straight form the horse's mouth!
sobieski 107 | 2,129    
6 Oct 2012  #12
Power is not the goal, it is only an instrument.

That's why during his term of office, opposition parties and media were spied on around the clock. The IPN used to discredit on PIS enemies... (did they ever release a file on the original duck by the way?). Monika Olejnik was threatened by the the first duck that he would get her.

And then that creep Ziobro (the closest I know to a regular SD office

Good that during the last elections the commercial radio stations played a crucial role...motivating the voters to go to vote...they ran announcement marathons well until the closing hours.

But then I would not you to expect you to understand this. You live in the PolAm world. We were with some friends following it on a minute basis. My wife phoning all her media contacts, calling in old debts...just to keep the airwaves open.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
6 Oct 2012  #13
Does anyone believe for a second that Glinski is another but another Marcinkiewicz - someone to win an election and then be dropped shortly afterwards?
pawian 151 | 7,988    
6 Oct 2012  #14
True.

True, but in good times.

Besides, the main problem is that PiS doesn`t want to throw off the rucksack. They even want to add new stones into it. Their economic program is purely socialist.

Have you ever seen a socialist government which developed a country?
polonius 56 | 421    
6 Oct 2012  #15
I didn't translate every last word, but the reason Pan Prezes metnioned the 7% growth rate was that Poland ranks third behind Germany and Holland as having Europe's highest IQ. If the Tusk clique didn't keep people down and didn't squander those resources, forcing people to seek a livelihood abroad, the sky would be the limit.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
6 Oct 2012  #16
If the Tusk clique didn't keep people down

Could you perhaps explain how they keep people down?

The incredibly socialist programme planned by PiS would certainly keep me down - ZUS contributions are high enough as it is!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170    
6 Oct 2012  #17
Good that during the last elections the commercial radio stations played a crucial role...

Very True.

Have you ever seen a socialist government which developed a country?

No. One of the reasons I am against PO.

ZUS contributions

Can you remind us, who was lowering non-payroll labour costs and who was increasing them. Thank you in advance.
polonius 56 | 421    
6 Oct 2012  #18
23% VAT, the sick untreated or given the run-around or stall job, woefully underpaid nurses, teachers, supermakret cashiers and many others. All the high and mighty Baltzermanns, Belkas and Rostowskis have no contact with normal ordianry Poles but live in their elitist

storybook world of ivory towers and marble corridors. What's a Pole to do who had 3 kids and a wife to support, took out credit (the banks are constantly encouraging people to) to finally renovate the flat, and then he is thrown out of work. Tusk won't even provide a free noose for the poor wretch?
peterweg 36 | 2,315    
6 Oct 2012  #19
Kaczyński as baadcast

You are not wrong.
jon357 64 | 14,382    
6 Oct 2012  #20
the sick untreated or given the run-around or stall job, woefully underpaid nurses, teachers, supermakret cashiers

In what way were their lives different under the failed PiS regime?

Kaczor wasn't the man with the answers then, was he.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
6 Oct 2012  #21
All the high and mighty Baltzermanns, Belkas and Rostowskis have no contact with normal ordianry Poles but live in their elitist storybook world of ivory towers and marble corridors.

Remind us who was insulting who for shopping at Biedronka, and remind us who is so out of touch that he didn't have his own bank account?

Sorry, but Kaczynski has nothing in common with the "ordinary Poles" - the guy was brought up in a privileged position, he was allowed to study freely (didn't he study law, a profession that was closed for years to people who weren't well connected?) and he was protected during the turbulent 80's. He then spent most of the 3rd Republic in politics. That's not a guy who knows a thing about my life or others.

What's a Pole to do who had 3 kids and a wife to support, took out credit (the banks are constantly encouraging people to) to finally renovate the flat, and then he is thrown out of work.

How terribly socialist of you.

What's the Pole to do? He should be living within his means rather than taking out loans that he can't afford to pay back.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,170    
7 Oct 2012  #22
LOL ! Vast majority of people can't afford to buy a flat without a mortgage, majority of those who do, take a mortgage to buy a large house. It's the same all around the world.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
7 Oct 2012  #23
But in the situation mentioned, he took a loan to renovate his flat.

Nothing about mortgages at all.
rybnik 18 | 1,462    
7 Oct 2012  #24
We want a neutral government to further Polish interests

This is such a disingenuous statement. What does thai even mean, a neutral government?!
Does it mean neither liberal nor conservative?
Does it suggest a less-than-enthusiastic coalition?
Does that mean Kaczka is now promoting a centrist government?
If so, that automatically disqualifies him as credible!
I'm really hoping and praying that the people of Poland see through this.
Or, at least, demand specifics.
polonius 56 | 421    
7 Oct 2012  #25
I think by neutral govt is meant a non-party or non-political one, technocratic, dealing with concrete issues and resolving problems on a merit basis untainted by ideology. The question arises: to what extent is that possible? Some say everything is political.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
7 Oct 2012  #26
I'm really hoping and praying that the people of Poland see through this.

Of course they will - Kaczynski will never manage to shake off what happened in 2006 with Marcinkiewicz.

The question arises: to what extent is that possible?

With Kaczynski calling the shots? Impossible - the man is haunted and obsessed with power.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
30 Dec 2015  #27
zbrodnia

It may have not been a murder in the classic sense of someone deliberately taking someone else's life, but it was a crying shame for the Tusk gang to agree to have the presidential plane land at the disused, decommissioned, ramshackle Smolensk airport devoid of functioning runway lights. The so-called control tower was nothing but a dingy, ground-level shack. Add to that the fact that the Tusk government wanted to turn the Katyń commemoration into a landmark Donald & Vladimir Reconciliation Show, according also-ran status to the presidential flight All told, that was a crime!

And it makes more sense than Wałęsa's being "for and even against" which is total rubbish!
Dougpol1 27 | 2,577    
30 Dec 2015  #28
it was a crying shame for the Tusk gang to agree to have the presidential plane land

Yawn. If the pilot had been allowed to do his job, and locked the cockpit door as aviation law demands, more than 90 people would have been eating their pierogi supper that day.

The blame lies at only one door. That of the president and his air force buddy. End of. We are all getting mighty sick of this typical Polish bleating after the milk is spilt.

PS In any normal country - in the light of the evidence - the state would have to pay out many TENS of millions of zlotys in compensation to the families' victims for the state criminal negligence - so you are right in a sense.

But the award would be against the president's office ( that is - PIS)
Librarius - | 91    
30 Dec 2015  #29
Lately the surviving Kaczyński twin seems to be taking over Lech Wałęsa's habit of saying things that don't make any rational or logical sense whatever.

Lech Wałęsa:

1. Przybyłem do was niejako w trzech osobach - I came here in three persons, as it were.
2. Jestem za, a nawet przeciw - I am for and even against...
3. Nie można mieć pretensji do Słońca, że kręci się wokół Ziemi - You cannot blame the Sun that it runs round the Earth.

4. Tonący brzytwy, chwyta się byle czego - A drowning man clutches at anything.

Jarosław Kaczyński:

W potocznym sensie znaczenia, słowo zbrodnia jest adekwatne do tego co się stało. Ale już w sensie prawnym nie.

In a colloquial sense of the word crime, it adequatily describes what has happend. But in a legal sense, it is not inadequate.

Does anyone else have any idea what (if anything) that was supposed to mean?

In a colloquial sense of the word crime, it adequatily describes what has happend. But in a legal sense, it is not inadequate.

Sorry for mistake. The translation should be more like this:

In a colloquial sense of the word crime, it adequatily describes what has happend. But in a legal sense, it is inadequate.
OP mafketis 17 | 6,756    
30 Dec 2015  #30
it was a crying shame for the Tusk gang to agree to have the presidential plane land at the disused, decommissioned, ramshackle Smolensk airport devoid of functioning runway lights.

Tusk had nothing to do with that particular meeting/ Was it Tusk's fault that so many high ranking military personnel were on the same flight? That is just gross mismanagement or incompetence. Why did they agree to it?

The real crime is endangering so much of the government over sittle little status games and the morally guilty party is probably JK. He's suffered from his hubris but didn't learn the lesson and is desperate to keep people from saying the unpalpable truth.


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