The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 1,530

Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet?


Dougpol1 32 | 3,274
27 Jan 2019 #1,441
and that he didn't win by big margin.

Bolek. Bolek.
You don't live here, and with respect, don't exactly have your finger on the pulse. Kaczynski nearly won because of the sympathy vote. Had he lived, his brother was going to get hammered out of sight. Unlike Delph, I can't be arsed to research the polls from that time.

But they are out there. Until PIS happened across the idea of bankrupting Poland's future budget by embarking on its rabid socialist agenda, it was dead in the water.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
27 Jan 2019 #1,442
Unlike Delph, I can't be arsed to research the polls from that time.

Lech was getting as low as 20% in some polls. Most forecasts had him losing in the first round.
Crow 139 | 8,272
27 Jan 2019 #1,443
Independence is thing that have price. Do you Poles have guts for that? From the individual level to the level of country. From the level of police to the level of mafia. Always protect your independence. Just ask and Racowie will tell you

SOUTH WIND official trailer (ENG) JUŽNI VETAR BEST MOVIES >>>> youtube.com/watch?v=sYymx6xC9B4
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,528
27 Jan 2019 #1,444
Can you connect the dots for me? How is that video even remotely about anything?
Crow 139 | 8,272
27 Jan 2019 #1,445
Brutality. To survive EU, Poles would have to be brutal. Film nicely shows how is brutality inevitable for independence. For man, for group, for state. You heard already for sure of blood on the altar of freedom. See, that`s it. You look film and think how it tells you what Poland must endure to survive EU.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,528
28 Jan 2019 #1,446
With that message, which, by the way, I agree with, you will not make many friends here, with that sickening 1938-style pacifism and the affinity for their rulers.
Crow 139 | 8,272
28 Jan 2019 #1,447
But in France you have peoples revolt. Freedom, ie independence, in any sense, is ``softly`` or ``hardy`` threatened. You think Poles have more nerves then French? What I know, they have less.

Let this time sparkle came from Poland and not from Serbia. Just this time. You for sure have some Gavrilo on your own.
Tacitus 2 | 1,028
28 Jan 2019 #1,448
@Ironside

You must have a very short memory. That is just a laughable claim.

No it is obviously the truth. The Polish government under Tusk managed to get European to take Russia more seriously, and cooperated with Germany to introduce economic sanctions against Russia.

All PiS has achieved is to once again isolate Poland and ensure that any future European cooperation will be much more difficult to achieve. No more is this shortsightedness more apparant than in Southern Europe, where the people are unlikely to forget that the countries threatened by Russia left them out to dry during the refugee crisis.

Another evidence is the attempt to forge a political alliance with Salvini, who is decidely pro-Russian, and sabotaging the ties to Germany. Tusk understood that Merkel was an unusually pro-Polnish and Russian-sceptic chancellor qnd used this to the advantage of Poland. PiS is wasting this opportunity for cheap domestic ptäropaganda. And not to mention the reliance on Orban... .

Putin really could not wish for a better government in Poland than the current one.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,572
28 Jan 2019 #1,449
Yeah merkel really showed how pro polish and anti russian she was with nord stream 2 and demanding we share in the migrant burden she invited to europe or be fined 2 bil...

And fyi pis is very much anti putin
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,528
28 Jan 2019 #1,450
I hope your sarcasm was easy for them to detect.
OP Spike31 3 | 1,813
28 Jan 2019 #1,451
All PiS has achieved is to once again isolate Poland

International visits since PiS has formed a government:

President of China - 2016
British Royal family - 2017
President of the US - 2017
Prime minister of the UK - 2017
Herr Kanzlerin, Mutti of Germany, Angela Merkel - few times since then, including one to meet a leader of PiS in person
Prime minister of Italy - 2019

Also since then a new Three Seas Initiative was started in 2016 by the presidents of Croatia and Poland which connects most Central and Southern European countries.

Poor "isolated" Poland
Tacitus 2 | 1,028
28 Jan 2019 #1,452
International visits since PiS has formed a government:

Yeah, and which of those could be counted on to defend Poland against Russia? China who has become a close ally of Russia? The UK who is currently guided by an isolationist approach, is fully occuppied with Brexit and whose voice will soon be diminished in Europe? The USA whose president has expressed his sympathy to Putin, who has deemed Nato obsolete, does not consult his military allies before important decisions and has shown a blatant ignorance regarding Eastern Europe (e.g. confusing the Baltic states with the Balkans). And that leaves even out the inevitable trend of the USA getting disengaged from Europe, even without Trump.

None of those can really influence European policies towards Russia. PiS is at the moment just benefiting from the work its' predecessor has done, e.g. the sanctions and the Wales Nato summit. They have created nothing for themselves and the cracks are only going to show up in a hypothtetical second term.

Angela Merkel

It is only thanks to Merkel that the Polish-German ties have not deterioted completely. Imagine if she had met the insults from Warsaw with similar accussations. It is Merkel's actions regarding Russia that make PiS' behaviour so foolish. Merkel has investigated considerable political capital to formulate an European response to Russian agression at a time when it might have been more opportune to carry on with buisness as usual. Nobody knows how her successor will be inclined towards Russia and as bad as the situation for Poland is right know, it will only get worse after her departure.
OP Spike31 3 | 1,813
28 Jan 2019 #1,453
Yeah, and which of those could be counted on to defend Poland against Russia?

My bet would be that Angela Merkel would cover us with her milk-white breast like a real Mutti she is, since bundeswehr is in a such a state of decay that it wouldn't even stop Belarus at this moment.

Or even better idea: why won't Germany cancel the North Stream II project and stop feeding imperial ambitions of Russia against the interest of Central Europe and Baltic States?

Also, NATO and not the EU is a military pact intended to protect its members against rogue states.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,528
28 Jan 2019 #1,454
Yeah, and which of those could be counted on to defend Poland against Russia?

Good question. Which one?
Also, which of those would defend Poland against Turkey?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Jan 2019 #1,455
Hmmm....a European Defense Force? All EU members pooling their skills, experiences and resources?

Who would dare to mess with THAT! :)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,572
28 Jan 2019 #1,456
. Merkel has investigated considerable political capital to formulate an European response to Russian agression

Kind of like rewarding Russia with additional billions once Nord Stream 2 is complete?

@Bratwurst Boy
Oh please several W European countries' militaries are lead by female defense ministers with zero military experience. Clearly 'diversity' hires. EU wouldn't stand a chance against Russia or China let alone combined.

Perhaps this new EU army will also have commercials like the UK's where a muslim dude takes off his boots and prays while his squad guards him lololol
OP Spike31 3 | 1,813
28 Jan 2019 #1,457
European Defense Force?

That's a German wet dream that will never come to fruition. "European army" without Britain and under Franco-German control, heh. Creating an army that would be steered from Berlin but pose as na "European army". Go on and look for fools that will support it.

In Poland every political option support NATO first and foremost. And one of the reasons is that Americans are keeping their bases in Germany to keep you civilised :-)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Jan 2019 #1,458
Creating an army that would be steered from Berlin but pose as na "European army". Go on and look for fools that will support it.

Why should it be "steered" from Berlin?

And this European Army would have also Poles innit...polish Generals, polish officers, polish soldiers, polish equipment...

Wet dream? Maybe, but not only a german one:

Twenty-five EU countries signed a major defence pact in December, agreeing to cooperate on various military projects...

Nine EU nations will on Monday (25 June) formalise a plan to create a European military intervention force...

euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/nine-european-countries-to-formalise-eu-defence-force-plan/

If Poland prefers again to stay asude, putting their chips with some Brits or USians instead...it will not be a smart decision, again!

We have a framework and even a budget already in place...the political will to move onwards was never as high as now after the Brexit.

European Defence Union

Headquarters Kortenberg building, Brussels, Belgium (Military Planning and Conduct Capability)

Active personnel 1,823,000 (2014)[2]

Budget $226.73 billion (2016)[2]

DGEUMS Lt. Gen Esa Pulkkinen
CEUMC General Claudio Graziano

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Security_and_Defence_Policy

eeas.europa.eu/topics/common-security-and-defence-policy-csdp_en?page=1

Poor "isolated" Poland

Yes, isolated.

Remember the election of Donald Tusk to EU president? Even Hungary voted for him against PiS wishes! 27:1...you don't get more isolated than that!

theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/09/donald-tusk-re-elected-as-european-council-president-despite-polish-opposition

And not to forget that one:

MEPs back triggering Article 7 against Poland

Members of the European Parliament on Thursday voted by a large majority in favor of urging the EU to put Poland on the path toward sanctions for breaching the bloc's laws.

politico.eu/article/european-parliament-triggering-article-7-poland-judicial-reform-voting-rights/

Not many friends left...
OP Spike31 3 | 1,813
28 Jan 2019 #1,459
If Poland prefers again to stay asude, putting their chips with some Brits or USians instead...it will not be a smart decision, again!

One of the indicators on whom Poland can count on are Anakonda NATO military maneuvers in Poland.
Each year the most troops training alongside Poles are from the US and the UK and even Spain with a very minimal engagement of German army.

Not a smart decision? It would be not smart to side with Germany which has historically often started some **** and then would loose at the end of the day.

When will you realise than Germany is just a convenient trade partner to Poland and not much more than that?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Jan 2019 #1,460
I'm not sure if the build up of a European Military can be stopped even if the new US president after Trump should want it and make amends to the Europeans. I think it has gone to far already and will come to pass in the next years. Trump and the Brexit and the international crisis have jumbled things to much.

And I very much doubt Poland will stay out of it...its highly unrealistic and against polish interests. PiS won't rule forever.

But lets see...

When will you realise than Germany is just a convenient trade partner to Poland and not much more than that?

Everybody here is entitled to his own opinion! :)
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
28 Jan 2019 #1,461
The UK who is currently guided by an isolationist approach, is fully occuppied with Brexit and whose voice will soon be diminished in Europe?

You have a very strange world view.
The UK leaving The EU is not isolationist,it is exactly the opposite.
As for The UK's voice being diminished in Europe,that is pathetic.Just because we leave The EU?
The UK has always and will continue to have a very loud voice in Europe,that will never change.
You over estimate both the importance and the longevity of The EU.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
28 Jan 2019 #1,462
Already May has lost so much from her fellow party members, I can't see her lasting more than until the end of her present term in office.

Had the US a vote of no confidence as exists in Europe (including England), Trump would've been booted out long agoLOL
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
28 Jan 2019 #1,463
As for The UK's voice being diminished in Europe,that is pathetic.Just because we leave The EU?

Actually, most observers agree that the UK has lost a huge amount of influence because of this mess. They won't be able to influence the EU from within anymore, and with manufacturers abandoning the UK, what's left? It will be trivial for the EU to impose a financial services tax on non-EU transactions, which will demolish London as a financial market, leaving...what?

You're seriously overestimating the UK economy.

In Poland every political option support NATO first and foremost.

The nationalists certainly don't.

By the way, just so everyone knows, Spike's favourite National Movement scored 1.1% in the latest poll.
mafketis 24 | 8,703
28 Jan 2019 #1,464
I'm not sure if the build up of a European Military can be stopped

someone's gonna have to fire on those anit-austerity protests, after all... (I'm not the only one to think that's the end game)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
28 Jan 2019 #1,465
If the national militaries didn't till now, why should the European Defense Force do it?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-austerity_movement
mafketis 24 | 8,703
28 Jan 2019 #1,466
as the ottomans, how they did it....
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
28 Jan 2019 #1,468
They won't be able to influence the EU from within anymore, and with manufacturers abandoning the UK, what's left?

We didn't influence Europe from within before 1973,but only a fool would say we didn't influence Europe.
As for manufacturers abandoning The UK,we have not been a major manufacturer for decades.
The fact is that over 90% of British businesses don't even trade with Europe.
By the way,just so everyone knows,Delph is a Scot,one of those that despises The English.....he has an axe to grind.....
Tacitus 2 | 1,028
29 Jan 2019 #1,469
As for The UK's voice being diminished in Europe,that is pathetic.Just because we leave The EU?

This is just merely the latest step in a longer process, which started in the 90s when Britain opposed a deeper European integration. They are simply no longer at the table when directions for Europe are discussed. This decade has already shown a shocking decline of British influence in Europe. The UK was one of the powers guaranteeing the terrorital integrity of the Ukraine, yet they were not involved in the Minsk negotiations. This view was voiced before the referendum already.

google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/15/observer-view-on-british-foreign-policy

Think about it, the UK is currently still benefitting from the positive effects of events long past. It has a permanent UN security seat, it benefited from its' membership of the EU (which was the reason why it joined in 1973) and from its' key role in Nato. Leaving the EU will make it less attractive for European countries as a key partner. Even Ireland considers a closer alignment with Germany because of Brexit. And once Nato is gone (which is probably only a matter of time) London won't be involved in any organization that is crucial for Europe's future. So of course the UK will be greatly diminished by the end of it.

1973,but only a fool would say we didn't influence Europe.

This is not 1973, but many Brexiteers have apparantly problems with understanding that the worls has changed. Back in 1973, the UK had a larger military presence in Europe, was needed to protect Western Europe and of course there were more unaligned European countries around. Today most of Europe is either in the EU, set to join, or closely aligned.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
29 Jan 2019 #1,470
The fact is that over 90% of British businesses don't even trade with Europe.

If the financial sector moves out of the City to either Paris or Frankfurt, the U.K. is pretty much toast for the next decade or so.

Home / News / Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet?
Discussion is closed.