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Polish Independence Day March in Warsaw. Is it going to be the biggest march yet?


Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
25 Jan 2019 #1,411
...and now think this through Dirk!

Imagine a Poland which has become a net payee. Really, try to imagine that!

A Poland which is now as wealthy and influential as Germany and France and only a few other core countries. A Poland which now sits at the top table as an equal, which has much more say than most. Which is flourishing, can brag about a modern economy, with well off citizens...which has become an integral part of the EU, deeply integrated.

And now think again which polish gov would give all that up voluntarily...and how the mood in the population might be...who know full well how that rise has come to pass, with millions of Poles settled across the Union by then...working, studying, living...

Still so sure?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,915
25 Jan 2019 #1,412
Poland which has become a net payee.

I'm hoping they throw us out just before we have to pay, on condition Britain is also out.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
25 Jan 2019 #1,413
"BEFORE you will pay back as a net payee"??? Now that would be a dumb move...:)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,572
26 Jan 2019 #1,414
Yeah might as well get out before Polish people's hard earned tax money goes to Albania or to house non-EU economic migrants who don't want to assimilate or work...

Poland's economy is growing faster than any of the major EU economies. It is now considered a developed economy by moody's. Plus, the EU is supposed to have each country treated as equals, even though clearly Germany and its liberal allies like France are running the show. Poland is rising while Germany, France, etc. has been stagnant, piling on debt (especially France), are swamped with migrants, terrorism, no go's, thousands of rapes, etc.
Crow 139 | 8,272
26 Jan 2019 #1,415
Yeah might as well get out before Polish people's hard earned tax money goes to Albania

Good one.

When my Polish sisters and brothers see how Duda goes to pray in Jasna Gora, they know how he goes there just for the hard mockery of everything Polish, Slavic and Christian. He ``pray`` there and some voice whisper to him how is necessary for Poland to train Muslim islamists on Kosovo and Albania.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
26 Jan 2019 #1,416
Poland's economy is growing faster than any of the major EU economies.

Of course it's growing faster...it's still developing. When your already developed you can't grow as much and as fast as developing economies. Logical, yes?

A big help is the membership of the Single Market and the support it gets. Look to Ukraine, that is an example where Poland would be now all on its own.
mafketis 24 | 8,703
26 Jan 2019 #1,417
Of course it's growing faster...it's still developing.

And not crippled by the loan shark instrument disguised as a currency known as the Euro...
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,572
26 Jan 2019 #1,418
@Bratwurst Boy

Seriously youre saying poland would be like ukraine without the eu? Thats quite insulting to poles and all that poles achieved - both before tge eu to the present. Poland was doing just fine in the years before accession. All accession did was make it easier for polands plumbers and carpenters and people living in poor villages to get higher paying jobs in uk. Oh and i guess it repaved a few roads and built some gyms - which eu firms especially german ones profitted nicely from.

If the eu was this great financial savior than why is bulgaria and romania poor? Even poorer today than poland was in 2003. On the same token norway and switzerland does quite well without eu membership. Serbia and the balkans arent too bad off either.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,274
26 Jan 2019 #1,419
Oh and i guess it repaved a few roads

"It" being the EU? You and I know that 66 percent of a whole lot is a whole lot. Poland wouldn't even have managed the 33 percent for funding countrywide infrastructure if it weren't for the EU led consumer society driving the economy.

As usual it's Polonia talking through their arses. If it were left to me, I would strip you of the vote because you (Polonia) bring nothing to the party.

And Dirk - are you really sure you are this highly educated whizz kid that you would have us all believe? Because you don't half talk bull about simple economics which are not opinion, but, rightly or wrongly politically speaking, still cast-iron fact.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
26 Jan 2019 #1,420
Thats quite insulting to poles and all that poles achieved

How is that insulting? Show me ONE of the ex-Eastern Bloc countries outside of the EU which have fared better than those inside...
Miloslaw 6 | 3,027
26 Jan 2019 #1,421
That's because the poorer ones have not yet met the criteria to join.
cms neuf - | 1,737
26 Jan 2019 #1,422
Compare Serbian growth from 2007 with that of Romania and Bulgaria - they are leaving Crow's homeland in the dust.

Or compare the 3 ex USSR states that joined the EU with Belarus and Ukraine.

Polands increasing wealth in the late 90s was driven by the fact it was on a pro western path with NATO membership providing security and EU membership providing a legal framework- once you have those things people would invest and the zloty became stable and Poles would feel more confident planning for the long term
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,528
26 Jan 2019 #1,423
Polands increasing wealth in the late 90s was driven by the fact it was on a pro western path

Hope you are right. The US "increasing wealth" is a mirage, hot air, dust, and a lot of debt. Poland could be just a smaller copy.

Just a reminder that the true measure is wealth is the totality of assets minus the liabilities. A measure of economic brilliance and genius is all that minus the welfare handouts, inheritance, and lottery or gambling wins.
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
26 Jan 2019 #1,424
and the zloty became stable

Wasn't Tusk promising that Poland would adopt the Euro by 2011?

Thank God that never happened.

The US "increasing wealth" is a mirage, hot air, dust, and a lot of debt. Poland could be just a smaller copy.

I can't say that I understand macro Economics but this article suggests that Poland finances are in good shape...

3kbo302xo3lg2i1rj8450xje-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_6856-Edit.jpg

In contrast in the US $7 Trillion can disappear and no one knows where it went!

globalresearch.ca/how-21-trillion-in-u-s-tax-money-disappeared-full-scope-audit-of-the-pentagon/5638534
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
26 Jan 2019 #1,425
Poland was doing just fine in the years before accession.

20.7% unemployment in February 2003, before EU accession.
Economy grew only 20% between 1989 and 1999.
Considerable devaluation in the currency at the first half of the 1990's, with several unplanned devaluations due to the economic situation.
Deficit of 7.6% of GDP in 1999

There's more... Poland wasn't doing fine at all, and with huge problems such as the Szczecin Shipyard (which was a great example of financial manipulation) falling - eurofound.europa.eu/publications/article/2002/bankruptcy-of-the-szczecin-shipyard - the early 2000's were pretty horrible for Poland.

Serbia and the balkans arent too bad off either.

They're doing pretty badly. Serbia's GDP in 1990 was around 14,000USD and it's just crossed that line in the last few months again. Kosovo is a basketcase, Bosnia is going nowhere (GDP was somewhere between 7-8bn USD in 1989, these days it's 5bn), Albania has 33% of the population living below the poverty line... should I carry on?

Look around Lower Silesia and Wielkopolska. The place is full of factories and warehouses that cater for the German market. Without the EU and customs barriers in place, what happens to those businesses?
Crow 139 | 8,272
26 Jan 2019 #1,426
Wasn't Tusk promising

Always judge politician by what he doing and not what he speak. Did Tusk supported/supporting spread of Islam in Serbia, on Kosovo? Answer is positive. Logically, he support spread of Islam in EU and in Poland. He is from that club. Paid. Plus, you always must be aware that Tusk profited on death of Lech Kaczinsky. Never trust to Tusk
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
27 Jan 2019 #1,427
Never trust to Tusk

Good advice!

I don't anyway, but there is a reasonable chance that he will win the presidency next year with the backing of Soros and his Bolshevik friends in the media

EU's Tusk is Poland's most trusted politician

euobserver.com/tickers/143386
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
27 Jan 2019 #1,428
but there is a reasonable chance that he will win the presidency next year

More than a reasonable chance. Duda has no chance against a charismatic opponent who has a history of leaving PiS for dead in debates.
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
27 Jan 2019 #1,429
a charismatic opponent who has a history of

...lying, cheating, and being involved in countless scandals as well as trying to close down numerous industries or selling them off at below market value.

He is also on record of doing everything in the EU to damage Polish interests

The man should rightfully be in prison.

His part in the conspiracy to eliminate Lech Kaczyński will come out sooner or later...
mafketis 24 | 8,703
27 Jan 2019 #1,430
His part in the conspiracy to eliminate Lech Kaczyński

Okay, now you're talkin' crazy. Why would there be a conspiracy to eliminate a not very popular president who was all but certain to lose an election in a couple of months?

If you want me to believe in a conspiracy I need a realistic motive...
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
27 Jan 2019 #1,431
It was planned by Tusk along with Putin when they met in Sopot 1/9/2009

pikio.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/1.jpeg

This followed Lech Kaczyński's speech in Tblisi on 12/8/2008 which annoyed Putin greatly

"Words that stopped Russia": Polish President's Georgia speech ...

freerepublic.com/focus/news/2061279/posts

The reward was the elimination of Lech Kaczyński would hand over the Presidency to Bronisław Komorowski without the need for pesky elections to take place in several months time.

As I recall Komorowski was certain to win the 2015 election, but somehow the electorate hadn't read the script.
cms neuf - | 1,737
27 Jan 2019 #1,432
But there were pesky elections - Komorowski defeated JK a couple of months after Smolensk. Or was that rigged by Moscow too ?
bolek_tusk 3 | 243
27 Jan 2019 #1,433
My bad...

The incumbant always has an advantage... Komorowski had three months to get the media behind him. Remember that TVP was a PO mouthpiece at the time and that he didn't win by big margin.
mafketis 24 | 8,703
27 Jan 2019 #1,434
So Tusk and Putin conspired to kill a political rival... to grab the mostly powerless office of president or Poland?

The Polish system is a bad compromise between a traditional parliamentary system in which the PM is the main player and American (and other?) pressure for a presidential system (which usually backfires, but that's another issue)

The only really active president since 1989 was Lech Wałęsa who lost after one term for his troubles, all those since have contented themselves with mostly being figurheadish figures who occasionally veto something...
cms neuf - | 1,737
27 Jan 2019 #1,435
Dirk has a Muslim European news thread - can we have a special tinfoil hat thread for Bolek ? Otherwise every discussion will be spammed by conspiracy stuff.
Tacitus 2 | 1,028
27 Jan 2019 #1,436
And as a side note, the PO government has been far more effective in building an anti-russian alliance that PiS ever was (and currently is). Putin does not deem an hysterical Poland that has diplomatically isolated hinself as a risk, what he respects is a Polish government that can put pressure on Bruessels to introduce and maintan economic sanctions.
jon357 63 | 15,107
27 Jan 2019 #1,437
can we have a special tinfoil hat thread for Bolek ? Otherwise every discussion will be spammed by conspiracy stuff.

Yes. It's an ongoing problem. It ends up taking almost every thread off topic and becomes dull very quickly.

There are already threads though about the Smolensk air accident. This ones about the various 11/11 parades.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
27 Jan 2019 #1,438
Remember that TVP was a PO mouthpiece at the time

Except it wasn't. You only have to look into the studies on the matter to see that.

It was planned by Tusk along with Putin

PiS have had three years and three months to provide a single piece of evidence to the public to demonstrate that it was anything other than a loss of spatial awareness leading to CFIT.

Why haven't they done it? If you know that it was planned by Tusk and Putin, why haven't you reported it to the public prosecutors?

Tell you what, why don't you get in your car, drive at 250km/h and attempt to navigate through fog.
Ironside 49 | 10,447
27 Jan 2019 #1,439
the PO government has been far more effective in building an anti-russian alliance that PiS ever was

You must have a very short memory. That is just a laughable claim.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
27 Jan 2019 #1,440
The only really active president since 1989 was Lech Wałęsa who lost after one term for his troubles

In fairness, Wałęsa was President at the time when the President still had significant power, and the 1989 amendments to the PRL constitution / 1992 "Small" Constitution did a pretty horrible job of clarifying the division of powers and they still left him with a poorly defined role. As you said, he got punished for it as well.

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