The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 53

What really happened at the Krakow restaurant?


PennBoy 76 | 2,437
10 Jul 2012  #1
Jews claims that the Polish waiters and waitresses told them to get out, Poles claim that they were Jews planted there to stir up trouble and anti semitism, what really happened???

'A group of Jews patronizing a restaurant in Krakow said they were verbally and physically attacked by waiters.

The anti-Semitic and racist comments allegedly were made over the weekend at the Moment restaurant during the Polish city's Jewish Culture Festival. The group was from Poland, Israel and Germany.

Uwe von Seltmann said his group came to meet friends who were sitting at a table in front of the restaurant.

"Immediately after our arrival I heard the words 'f***ing Jews' and something like 'we'll not serve you' spoken by a waiter," von Seltmann said. "The four members of staff were in general very unfriendly, and their body language showed that they would not serve us."

A member of the group went inside the restaurant to complain about the slurs, which led to a verbal confrontation, von Seltmann told JTA. Following the complaint, a waiter threw an object at a female member of the group.

The group then left the restaurant and, according to von Seltmann, someone told them to "Go back to Israel."

Moment manager Sebastian Wojnar said he would punish the staff involved in the altercations.

"We are an open place that promotes dialogue between cultures and nations," he said.'
MoOli 9 | 484
10 Jul 2012  #2
I was waiting for this kind of incident to happen in Poland as the normal attitude of some polish people towards jews.
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
10 Jul 2012  #3
That's not a fair statement..Poles claim that nothing of the sort happened that some radicals just stated that for the purpose of string something up and pinning blame on them. I'd like to hear some comments from Poles who were there..
MoOli 9 | 484
10 Jul 2012  #4
If that was the case then why would the manager offer to punish the culprits? admittance of guilt already?
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
10 Jul 2012  #5
Maybe he was overwhelmed by supposed complaints and felt that he had to do something and his place being labeled anti Semitic, it does happen!!!
MoOli 9 | 484
10 Jul 2012  #6
PennBoy
Do yu really think in this kind of situation and in court of law his comments will not be used against the restaurant?I read the reviews of that restaurant...most were good but some did complain about the staff.then again its my opinion who knows what really happened.Also my personal experience I have seen polish people in house some have a jewish picture and also in some businesses,when I asked if they were jewish the answer was a blunt NO! they just had the picture of a jewish man for luck to make money...wonder what that meant!
4 eigner 2 | 831
10 Jul 2012  #7
OK guys, before you start arguing, none of us was there and we don't know what really happened. Let's drop it before it's too late.
MoOli 9 | 484
10 Jul 2012  #8
OK guys, before you start arguing

not arguing just discussing:)
4 eigner 2 | 831
10 Jul 2012  #9
I know but I also know how this type of discussions usually end on PF ;-)
ShawnH 8 | 1,498
10 Jul 2012  #10
They never end.
MoOli 9 | 484
10 Jul 2012  #11
A reason that this forum survives.
4 eigner 2 | 831
10 Jul 2012  #12
They never end.

they end up with fights and then the fights never end, that's true.
BBman - | 344
10 Jul 2012  #13
If that was the case then why would the manager offer to punish the culprits? admittance of guilt already?

I worked in restaurants and retail part time back in high school. We were always told that the "customer is always right."

they just had the picture of a jewish man for luck to make money...wonder what that meant!

Many poles believe that a painting of a jew in the their home will bring them good fortune. Nothing anti-semitic here, move along.

Who knows what happened. Maybe some poles said a few harsh words to the jews or maybe the jews were being aggressive (like in the documentary about jewish high school kids travelling to poland to visit auschwitz, "defamation" i think) towards the poles.
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
10 Jul 2012  #14
Who knows what happened. Maybe some poles said a few harsh words to the jews or maybe the jews were being aggressive (like in the documentary about jewish high school kids travelling to poland to visit auschwitz, "defamation" i think) towards the poles.

I think it was foreign Jews fed up with Poland (not giving them reparations) who instigated this whole thing. Why wont they start with blaming Latvia, Lithuania, Ukraine before Poland this was the county that took them in for hundreds of years when no western European nation wanted to. Very selfish.
pip 10 | 1,661
10 Jul 2012  #15
you know something--Jewish people are not free of rude obnoxious people just because their culture was the main target behind the nazi. there are a-holes in every culture. being a jew visiting Poland does not give you carte blanche to act like a dick.

When Obama was elected there was this youtube video that was floating around showing these American Jewish kids from the U.S. visiting Israel and commenting on how much they hated Obama---I am sure it is long gone now. Anyway, these kids and their language made my skin crawl- they called him loads of colourful words and even had the balls to throw in the halocaust just for good measure.

Point is--I doubt these waiters just threw the language around without being provoked. There was probably a group of loud obnoxious Jewish people all gathered together who were offensive and the wait staff had had enough--except their choice of words is now making front headlines.

Just because the Nazi's targeted Jews in Poland does not give Jews the right to be assh*les when they are hear.
jon357 63 | 14,122
10 Jul 2012  #16
"Immediately after our arrival I heard the words 'f***ing Jews' and something like 'we'll not serve you' spoken by a waiter," von Seltmann said. "The four members of staff were in general very unfriendly, and their body language showed that they would not serve us."

Unfortunately this isn't the first time this has happened in Krakow. There are other cases of restaurants that have refused to serve people on the basis of their ethnicity.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
10 Jul 2012  #17
I read the Wyborcza article linked to, plus another one on the same website: and all I can say is that both sides behaved terribly. You come into a restaurant where the staff tell you that they're just now closing, but what do you do? You sit down and then start moving some tables together for a larger party. You call a member of staff a redneck. You generally behave as if you owned the place. Not nice. On the other hand, the staff were rude and did tell their customers to go back to Israel or wherever, the question is, if the customers were e.g. obviously from Warsaw, wouldn't they tell them to eff off to Warsaw? And would that be racist or city-ist or whatever?

Overall, I wouldn't call it a racist incident, or an antisemitic one, I would call it a nasty row with bad manners and arrogance demonstrated by all involved.
Hipis - | 227
10 Jul 2012  #18
Unfortunately this isn't the first time this has happened in Krakow. There are other cases of restaurants that have refused to serve people on the basis of their ethnicity.

Unfortunately this happens in a lot of places in the world and not just Poland but hey, don't let that stop the chance to do a bit more Pole bashing.
sa11y 5 | 331
10 Jul 2012  #19
the normal attitude of some polish people towards jews

Normal attitude would be to serve them. You might be talking about SOME people attitude, but this does not constitute majority. No matter who guests are, restaurant is a business, and most of business owners treat them as such, regardless of sentiments or lack of thereof for any ethnic groups.
Harry
10 Jul 2012  #20
I think it was foreign Jews

I take it that you haven't actually read the article which you quote from: it clearly states that some of the Jews were from Poland.

Unfortunately this isn't the first time this has happened in Krakow. There are other cases of restaurants that have refused to serve people on the basis of their ethnicity.

Indeed, you'd think that a city which relies so much on tourism would do something about that kind of problem.

I wonder how long it will be before somebody uses overblown exaggerated report of the action of a few teenage idiots to 'justify' why Jews seem not to be entirely welcome in Krakow.
pip 10 | 1,661
10 Jul 2012  #21
so now the real story comes out. yes it is a business and the business has the right to shut the doors when they like and refuse whomever they like. And I imagine the group of people probably decided they could do whatever the hell they wanted and sat down anyway. inappropriate response by staff, hell yes- but at least now we hear why.
Harry
10 Jul 2012  #22
, the question is, if the customers were e.g. obviously from Warsaw, wouldn't they tell them to eff off to Warsaw? And would that be racist or city-ist or whatever?

Interesting point, but the assumption that the customers were obviously not from Warsaw (despite having told the staff that they were from Warsaw) because they were Jewish is one which speaks volumes about the staff (and, to be frank, about you).
jon357 63 | 14,122
10 Jul 2012  #23
Hipis, don't be either so silly or so quick to accuse people of Pole-bashing. If you actually spent time here you'd know about the issues surrounding restaurants especially in Krakow.

Magdalena's assessment is probably fairly accurate, however as I've said before there have been other incidents involving Krakow restaurants refusing to serve Jewish people.
Ironside 48 | 9,704
10 Jul 2012  #24
because they were Jewish is one which speaks volumes about the staff (and, to be frank, about you).

Your comment speaks volumes about you !
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jul 2012  #25
Magdalena's assessment is probably fairly accurate, however as I've said before there have been other incidents involving Krakow restaurants refusing to serve Jewish people.

maybe there is something wrong with some Jewish people attitudes - like in this particular case - I guess you wouldn;t particularly happy if people occupied your premises and demanded to be served when you are tired after a whole day of working - the Jewish people in question acted as if they were the owners of the place and not guests

is a customer right also when they abuse you in some way or another????
pip 10 | 1,661
10 Jul 2012  #26
a dick is a dick no matter what their ethnicity is. Seems to me they are using "the jewish card" to make poor behaviour acceptable.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jul 2012  #27
pip

I think the staff of the restaurant acted the way they acted because they were not really convinced calling Polish police to the scene would be of any help - but well it's my guess (a bit educated though)
pip 10 | 1,661
10 Jul 2012  #28
I can really relate- I used to waitress in Canada. I know the feeling of wanting to get the hell out and then one table comes in 10 minutes before closing.

like I said-- there are dicks no matter what ethnicity they are. Had they said "go back to Germany" or something similar then it wouldn't have hit the anti semite radar.
jon357 63 | 14,122
10 Jul 2012  #29
Restaurant staff here can sometimes be very abrasive. I suspect they could have handled the situation very differently.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jul 2012  #30
there is an undercurrent anti-Jewish sentiment in Poland and you have seen an example in that situation - but calling it anti semitism is a gross exaggeration - it is really a reaction to various Jewish attitudes


Home / News / What really happened at the Krakow restaurant?
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.