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Europeén Union will finance the 2nd Warsaw metro line. Good news.


delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
25 Sep 2011 #31
I've been waiting for over 30 years and Britain still hasn't left.

(Britain used to beg for handouts too)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
25 Sep 2011 #32
What's the issue, then?

You clearly have no clue about the subject. How dare you speak up here ?

you will be out in the cold begging for handouts.

He's a British troll and you can be sure that I wouldn't beg for anything.
wielki pan 2 | 250
26 Sep 2011 #33
Mr D, Buddy, friend, can I just take you aside and just say slow down and relax, drown your first glass of vodka, people are entitled to have a point of view as people welcome your point of view. Can I just say nice to get a new metro line especially if you get it for nothing, what a windfall joining the EU.. wow.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
26 Sep 2011 #34
There's only one pie; if someone takes a bigger piece, someone else always gets a smaller one. Despite what banks and governments think, you just can't create another "pie" out of nothing ;)

That is a very socialist view of the world.

Aww. My heart bleeds.

I can't wait to use the British-subsidised metro with the cheap tickets.

lol.

On a more serious note, these investments couldn’t have come at a better time for Poland. The economy is injected with some much needed stimulus that does not overburden the budget and creates growth and employment. Now had these investments taken place during an economic boom, I am guessing that in all probability the inflation rate would be sky high and the government would be forced to cut back somewhere else.

Instead the government is getting maximum bang for it buck. Given the economic situation, the competitiveness between construction companies must be huge, which means that they can't simply jack up the prices, and in all probability they have to compete on price as well.

I believe this can be described as Poland's Goldilocks moment(:
antheads 13 | 366
26 Sep 2011 #35
Its a pity they are not building the whole thing at once.

iilinian_d.gif - line 2 proposed

The link to the statium will be built by 2014, then there will be years of delays to start construction on the sections that are actually needed.
OP LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
26 Sep 2011 #36
Grzegorz( Beautiful name by the way) what the heck are you talking about ?

EU is reducing competitiveness of Polish economy by things like draconian limitis on CO2 emissions, so It's damaging the real economy and create artificial one fueled on overpriced public investments. Very good... for economy analphabets...

Draconian limits on C02 emissions is bad? Do you still want to show your great grand children the beautiful Bialoweza forest , the Beskids etc ?
Coal is the Number 1 energy used in Poland and it is extremely polluting and damaging for Human beeings,Natural sites and even historic buildings.

A clean energy is not real Economy? Eu is reducing competitivness of Polish economy by partly financing your local transportations? lol
bullfrog 6 | 602
26 Sep 2011 #37
It's a shame they can't (or won't) expand the rail line near the airport to actually serve the airport; an increasingly important city like this should consider this to be on its list of priorities. Even a tram link would be better. Manchester will soon have both, and it's not even a capital.

Agreed, but you have to take into account that a cab ride from the airport into the city is much cheaper in Warsaw than of any other european capital I know (6/7 times cheaper than in London)..
OP LwowskaKrakow 28 | 431
27 Sep 2011 #38
How can one take this comparison into account when applied to Polish salary ? We can say the same about rents in London and rents in Warsaw too but the cost of a metro ticket or a tram ticket costs almost 10 times less than a taxi fare in Poland !( at least in Krakow /10zl for the 20 mns shuttle and 90zl + tip with a taxi).

So i think the new metro line is a good project but i would also wish there was a fast shuttle or metro to link the Warsaw airport to the city center like in Barcelona where you just buy a metro ticket to and from the airport.
pawian 194 | 19,785
27 Sep 2011 #39
=bullfrog]By all counts, the relative taxi cost is lower in Warsaw..

Not to mention ticket cost. 3 zlotys to 9 euros. Wow!
bullfrog 6 | 602
27 Sep 2011 #40
Wow , Krakow is expensive.. In Warsaw, a cab ride to centrum will set you off 45 PLN, and a bus ticket ca 3.20 PLN.. Anyway,the minimum salary in Poland (1 386 PLN) buys you 31 taxi rides from the airport to the centre, versus 16 in London (1027 GBP and 65 GBP cab ride) or 25 in Paris (1365 € and 55 € cab ride), so it is comparatively cheaper in Warsaw (maybe not in Krakow!!)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
27 Sep 2011 #41
then there will be years of delays to start construction on the sections that are actually needed.

The most important part is the cross-river connection - as long as this can funnel people away from the centre and across the river, it'll do the job needed.

For instance, it will connect to Dworzec Wilenski. That's fine for now - commuter trains will terminate there, and they can hop on the metro to get over to the business areas quickly, rather than having to mess around with buses/rail to get there.
Mike87 - | 2
27 Sep 2011 #42
True, the central part is the most important one. But there are tens of thousands ppl commuting to work to CBD from eastern and western districts of Warsaw who are forced to use cars and buses (trafic jams) and trams (slow with too many stops). Commuting to CBD from Ursynow by metro is much much faster than commuting from Bemowo (despite the similar distance from CBD) using other means of transportation.

Building only central part is definatelly not enough for now. It will make commuting a bit easier but that's far from being enough. I only hope it will not take them 25 years (such a long time first line was being built) to complete this line.
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 441
27 Sep 2011 #43
In Warsaw, a cab ride to centrum will set you off 45 PLN, and a bus ticket ca 3.20 PLN.. Anyway,the minimum salary in Poland (1 386 PLN) buys you 31 taxi rides from the airport to the centre, versus 16 in London (1027 GBP and 65 GBP cab ride) or 25 in Paris (1365 € and 55 € cab ride)

However, the percentage of residents earning the minimum wage in London is probably significantly lower than the percentage of people on the minimum wage in Warsaw. In Hong Kong, public transport (especially the trams) seem ridiculously cheap (as little as 40p a ticket) until you realise that shopworkers can take home as little as £400 GBP/month for longer hours than we work over here, but with similar housing costs to London. I suspect that the situation in Warsaw is similar, especially if you look at the rents which are advertised on here. If I worked in Warsaw, I would only take home about 1500 PLN (so I'm told), whereas in London, I can easily take home £2500 a month. My job wouldn't be a living wage in Warsaw, whereas it's quite a good living over here (even in London) - so those much higher prices are actually more affordable for many over here, despite the fact that everyone tells you how "overpriced" public transport is. It's even worse outside the capital - in Northern cities, where public transport is worse, bus fares can cost twice as much as in London, with lower wages. The last time I was in Warsaw, the price of a ticket was about 2,80 PLN (about 70p at the time, iirc) but the price of a single bus fare on my Oyster card was only 90p!
pawian 194 | 19,785
28 Sep 2011 #44
=Sidliste_Chodov] If I worked in Warsaw, I would only take home about 1500 PLN (so I'm told),

Why do you rate yourself so cheaply? Would you work as a street beggar for international gangs or sth when in Warsaw? Come on, with your language skills, you could find a better position.
bullfrog 6 | 602
28 Sep 2011 #45
Having lived 8 years in London and 6 years in Warsaw, and although I don't have hard evidence to back this up, i am not sure I agree.. In fact, part maybe from hypermarket/supermarket jobs, it would very rare to find a job paying the minimum wage in Warsaw, most jobs would pay at least 2,500 PLN per month.. In fact, the average salary in Warsaw is 50-60% higher than the national average..

However, for relative cheapness of public transport, I'm not sure many cities beat Zurich.. A single tram ticket (zone 10) costs 4,10 CHF and although there is no official minimum wage, it would be very difficult to find a job paying less than 3,000 CHF per month/36,000 CHF per year..So you can buy 732 tickets per month !
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 441
28 Sep 2011 #46
Why do you rate yourself so cheaply? Would you work as a street beggar for international gangs or sth when in Warsaw? Come on, with your language skills, you could find a better position.

I was talking about what I'm qualified to do. Over here, my job pays reasonably well. In Poland, it pays badly.

I could do my job in Poland (my Polish is definitely good enough; I know most of the professional terms already, etc), but (a) I know I wouldn't stand a chance - "Polska dla Polaków", remember ;) - and (b) I've no interest in ever becoming an "English teacher".

But it's all irrelevant anyway, I'm not planning on moving to Poland ;)

Having lived 8 years in London and 6 years in Warsaw, and although I don't have hard evidence to back this up, i am not sure I agree..

But a significant proportion of jobs in Warsaw do not pay that much more. Like in London, the median/average is skewed by those earning huge salaries. And that's the point: what seems "cheap" to Western eyes, isn't necessarily so. If you earn 2500 PLN brutto, it's going to be more like 1600 PLN netto (I think). Once you've paid your rent, there's not going to be much left for food and transport, so those tickets won't seem "cheap" any more.
pawian 194 | 19,785
28 Sep 2011 #47
But a significant proportion of jobs in Warsaw do not pay that much more.

opps, you seem to be deficient in reading skills. Why do you repeat the same BS about 1600 netto salary in Warsaw if Bullfrog explained it clearly enough, meaning 2500 netto as a minimum level for Warsaw?:

=Sidliste_Chodov]But it's all irrelevant anyway, I'm not planning on moving to Poland ;)

If you don`t live in Warsaw, what can you know about average earnings there? ?????

Don`t be silly. With 4% unemployment, Warsavians have the highest salaries in Poland, but costs of living there are also high.
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 441
28 Sep 2011 #48
pawian

**** off. YOU learn to read. He didn't say whether it was netto or brutto. Not that it really matters; we were talking about relative costs and relative affordability of public transport tickets.

If you don`t live in Warsaw, what can you know about average earnings there? ?????

What's that got to do with it? I know what the average salary in Hong Kong is, but I don't live there.

Don`t be silly. With 4% unemployment, Warsavians have the highest salaries in Poland, but costs of living there are also high.

I'm not going to argue with that. The last time I read up about it, Katowice had less unemployment and a slightly higher average salary. Clearly that has changed. No big deal.
pawian 194 | 19,785
28 Sep 2011 #49
=Sidliste_Chodov]**** off. YOU learn to read.

Thanks. I put this quote in Typical Abuse Phrases! :):):) Have you got anything else? :):):):)

=Sidliste_Chodov]He didn't say whether it was netto or brutto.

It was obvious for intelligent people. Read below, Mr Expert:

=Sidliste_Chodov]What's that got to do with it? I know what the average salary in Hong Kong is, but I don't live there.

If you know what an average salary in Poland is, i.e., 3500 brutto, 2600 netto,

stat.gov.pl/gus/5840_1786_PLK_HTML.htm

was it so difficult for you to conclude that Warsavian salaries are higher after reading Bullfrog`s post with such calculations?:

=bullfrog]it would very rare to find a job paying the minimum wage in Warsaw, most jobs would pay at least 2,500 PLN per month.. In fact, the average salary in Warsaw is 50-60% higher than the national average..

It means that while in other regions of Poland the median 2600 netto often goes down to 1500, in Warsaw the 2600 is a minimum offered to employees, and the average is much higher.

Actually, the median salary in Warsaw is 5200 PLN.

poradnik-praca.pl/rynek-pracy/zarobki-2011/zarobki-w-warszawie

=Sidliste_Chodov]The last time I read up about it, Katowice had less unemployment and a slightly higher average salary. Clearly that has changed. No big deal.

When? 100 years ago? :):):):) When Katowice was German and Warsaw Russian? :):

It could be true, indeed. :):

That is why I will repeat: stop pretending an expert on Warsaw earnings. :)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
29 Sep 2011 #50
in Warsaw the 2600 is a minimum offered to employees

It's not that I don't like you or something... but do you seriously believe in this nonsense ? Do you really believe that all the people working in Żabka stores, cleaning the streets etc. are making no less than 2600 there ?

Average salary in Warsaw is relatively high (compared with average in Poland) due to damn load of well paid jobs being there, huge number of companies have HQs there (including vast majority of banks) basically all government institutions are there... "normal" jobs pay only slightly better than average for Poland.
pawian 194 | 19,785
29 Sep 2011 #51
=Grzegorz_]
It's not that I don't like you or something...

Does it mean you don`t dislike me? I am really delighted. Thank you.

=Grzegorz_] Do you really believe that all the people working in Żabka stores, cleaning the streets etc. are making no less than 2600 there ?

I didn`t mean that every position offers you minimum 2600. I thought of it as the lowest median, while the highest is around 5000.

Sorry if I caused misunderstanding with my English or mental shortcut.

verage salary in Warsaw is relatively high (compared with average in Poland) due to damn load of well paid jobs being there, huge number of companies have HQs there (including vast majority of banks) basically all government institutions are there...

Yes, you are right.

=Grzegorz_]"normal" jobs pay only slightly better than average for Poland.

Not so slightly. The difference between Warsaw and a small town in eastern Poland is quite significant. From 280 to 500 zlotys.

But higher cost of subsistence in Warsaw make the living standard the same, so you can be right.

Hotels near the airport on a map. Book online now. Pay at the hotel.

Thank you for your invitation but I am too busy now.
antheads 13 | 366
29 Sep 2011 #52
some of you people are stupid, blinded by your expat delusions./

There are many people in poland, without higher education qualifications who are surviving on 1200-2000 złoty a month (after tx), that is why people emigriate.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
30 Sep 2011 #53
some of you people are stupid, blinded by your expat delusions./

Remind us, when did you last live in Poland?

There are many people in poland, without higher education qualifications who are surviving on 1200-2000 złoty a month (after tx), that is why people emigriate.

We don't talk about the huge black market here, no sir.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
30 Sep 2011 #54
Poland Warsaw rondo

The initial section of Line 2 between Rondo Daszyńskiego and Dworzec Wileński (6.5 km) is under construction. It is being excavated by tunnel boring machines.Interchange with Line 1 will be provided at Świętokrzyska station (see map).

urbanrail.net/eu/pl/war/warszawa.htm
Crow 160 | 10,983
30 Sep 2011 #55
nice. It is very nice. One day when EU dies, people would say- ``EU left something nice in remembrance on its existence. EU wasn`t that bad. Etc, etc.`` i can tell you people that me myself thinks same, for example, about Austro-Hungaria. When things dies, people used to think similarly.
antheads 13 | 366
30 Sep 2011 #56
Remind us, when did you last live in Poland?

About 11 months ago, and i have a whole crew of polish expats in aus here to tell me how life is like for the polish working class.

@piłduski

As we can see, apart from the nowyt swiat station, tis a total duplication of existing pkp railway and stations. For the most expensive metro in europe per km it sure is a waste of money when u consider the other pressing public transport projects the EU funds could have been spent on.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
30 Sep 2011 #57
About 11 months ago, and i have a whole crew of polish expats in aus here to tell me how life is like for the polish working class.

Of course, they never mention the kickbacks, the bribes, the work done on the side - it's a Polish trait to never mention these things that just so happen to inflate their income.

We also don't mention those living in nice big council flats and paying a pittance in rent, no no.
PWEI 3 | 612
1 Oct 2011 #58
As we can see, apart from the nowyt swiat station, tis a total duplication of existing pkp railway and stations

Really, stick to talking about things you have some clue about.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Oct 2011 #59
As we can see, apart from the nowyt swiat station, tis a total duplication of existing pkp railway and stations.

Never heard of "redundancy"?

If the rail Cross-City Line was to close (let's say - an accident) - then Warsaw is paralysed. The whole point of this part of Line 2 is to provide another crossing of the Wisla. I take it you've never actually taken a train across the river - otherwise you'd know that they are busy throughout the whole day, and another crossing is desperately needed.
antheads 13 | 366
1 Oct 2011 #60
You do not spend billions of dollars duplicating infrastructure in case of an accident. when there are other pressing projects to be built. You keep harping on about paralasis if the cross river link gets shut down has this happened to you ever? didin't think so. Have a look here to have your arguements demolished. The fact that none of the metro lines go to centralna station is ridiculous as is building a metro line to shadow an existing rail line!

The line is to be a classic heavy metro. These are very expensive to build and take a great deal of time to complete. Warsaw can ill afford the cost and time delays. A semi-metro, like Hannover's Stadtbahn, which runs underground in the centre of a city and can use tramway tracks on the outskirts, can be rolled out quickly and could be a cost effective fast cure for Warsaw's traffic problems.

The line between Rondo ONZ and Stadion parallels the PKP Linia Srednicowa cross city line, running some 0.5 kilometre to the North. Warsaw can't afford this duplicated capacity. The City needs an East-West metro line running further to the North and crossing Krakowskie Przedmiescie at a point where it could serve the University and the Old Town.

The line won't be completed in time for Euro 2012 football championships which completely negates the reason for adopting current southerly route to serve the new sport stadium which is already served by Stadion station.

An alternative plan


Home / News / Europeén Union will finance the 2nd Warsaw metro line. Good news.
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