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Crucifixes to stay in Polish schools


MareGaea 29 | 2,752
16 Nov 2009 #91
Sokrates

And you are just about the biggest piece of trash that's in here. Listen, I don't have time for your bullcrap. I never advocated racism towards PL. That's all in your pathetic little head. Room enough there as the brain in your head is absent anyway. So shut the *peep* up.

>^..^<

M-G (and it's worse, you are a very disturbed man as well)
Juche 9 | 292
16 Nov 2009 #92
Slavija, not part of Muslimija.

where Slavinuia and Muslimja are is obviously a fluid concept, as are the borders of Poland. That's Europe for you. Powers grow, powers wane, and it is always the sheep-herding yokels who are caught in the crossfire, and then we have to listen to grandparents who lament the loss of this or that city to the "barbarians" from across the border....too bad.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Nov 2009 #93
You completely missed the point, M-G. The Germans precipitated the Yugoslav War by expediting the independence of Croatia and Slovenia. The EU and NATO really made a mess in the Balkans.

Anyway, this is about Polish schools. I'm just against labels. I wish Catholics would just tell me that they are Christians as most of the ones I have asked don't even understand their 6 central tenets of Catholicism.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
17 Nov 2009 #94
You completely missed the point, M-G. The Germans precipitated the Yugoslav War by expediting the independence of Croatia and Slovenia. The EU and NATO really made a mess in the Balkans.

Slovenia was fair enough - I don't think even the Serbs were particularly bothered about the independence of Slovenia as it was a vastly Slovene-majority republic anyway. But when it came to Croatia and Bosnia, the EU really should've laid the law down and told the Croatian Tudjman to wise up - he was certainly a nasty piece of work and every bit as horrible as Milosevic. Certainly, there's enough evidence to suggest that Tudjman and Milosevic would've happily partitioned Bosnia between them.

But then again, many of the problems in Yugoslavia were a direct result of Tito's 1974 constitution - I think it can be safely said that Yugoslavia only really worked as long as someone was running the place with an iron rod.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Nov 2009 #95
Delph, they even signed an agreement to that effect. Google Kakadardevo Agreement. It was abandoned in light of subsequent developments.

Anyway, this is about crucifixes in Polish schools. Did you go to church in Scotland, delph? What Catholic schools were there in Aberdeen other than St Josephs? Are you religious?
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
17 Nov 2009 #96
You completely missed the point, M-G.

I thought it was about the stimulating of the diverse EU memberstates, not about Yugo. Sorry for misunderstanding, a mea culpa is in place.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Nov 2009 #97
No problems, it happens :) Christians forgive :) At least the ones that know why they are Christians and don't just slap on labels ;)
Harry
19 Nov 2009 #98
What about homos who want Lesbian nuns and homo priests in the Catholic Church?

Yes, there are obviously no homosexual priests in the Catholic church...

Next you'll be telling me that priests bugger little kids and the church takes great care to hide the problem!
Juche 9 | 292
19 Nov 2009 #99
What about homos who want Lesbian nuns and homo priests in the Catholic Church?

that would certainly make mass more worth going to.
lesser 4 | 1,311
22 Nov 2009 #100
I have. Please elaborate with a provision. There are plenty to show that an intermediary was not intended by Christ at all.

This must be just your interpretation. Show me the quote when Jesus saying that there should not be any priests? Jesus said to his apostles, go teach all nations. In the meantime clergy was created, people who cared the most. This is old and successful tradition and I'm curious why do you seems to be so negative about it? If priesthood is the best option to spread Christian message, I'm all for it. Why to oppose?

Grace is, by definition and nature, unmerited. You believe in congruous merit, I'm sure.

This is not so obvious. You must at least be sorry of your wrongdoings and promise to improve to be offered God's grace. This is small but still a merit. What do you think that Christian concept of hell is example of God's grace? :)

esser, why is contrition, confession and satisfaction needed when Christ has already cleansed you by grace? (Romans 4 through 8) Expiation is unclear as you forever strive for justification under Trent whereas Protestants see it as one event through imputation and not a transforming event through infusion

Here you find answers to your questions:

matt1618.freeyellow.com/page8.html
matt1618.freeyellow.com/abraham.html
matt1618.freeyellow.com/page2.html

Well why Kosovo allowed to fall? Serbia, as an Orthodox country, lost much because of the EU. Hypocrites!!

Since when EU establishment is Christian?
jonni 16 | 2,485
22 Nov 2009 #101
Since when EU establishment is Christian?

It isn't supposed to be religious. Just like the USA, where the separation of church and State is part of the constitution.

The EU guarantees freedom of belief, but is not, repeat, not, religious, or allied to any one religious viewpoint.
lesser 4 | 1,311
22 Nov 2009 #102
It isn't supposed to be religious.

One cannot be atheist at work and Christian at home. Either you are driven by Christian morality or not. EU establishment is not Christian.
jonni 16 | 2,485
22 Nov 2009 #103
One can't indeed be atheist in one place and christian/jewish/muslim/hindu/scientologist/buddhist in another. One can however respect the principle that religion is a private matter, and the workplace is not a place for it.

The EU as an entity is neither christian or any other religion. It is secular. Its citizens are free to believe in something or not. The EU does not interfere withthat.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
22 Nov 2009 #104
Because people can learn the messages for themselves, lesser, and not contribute to a profit-making organisation.

Try Timothy 2.5. I can quote you many more but it is crystal clear. 'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus'.

'Who can forgive sins but God only?' in Mark 2:7

I can easily go on and one, lesser. Judaism and Protestantism reject the notion that you can play God by giving forgiveness. Jesus forgave us all on the cross, that was his sacrifice to humanity.

God's Grace is bestowed on you automatically, it is imputed.
McCoy 27 | 1,275
22 Nov 2009 #105
Thee shall not forget Ezekiel 25:17

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
pawian 173 | 13,488
23 Nov 2009 #106
Find ten differences between these two pictures:

Catholic school in Krakow
State school in Krakow
It is fine with me. :):
McCoy 27 | 1,275
23 Nov 2009 #107
in france theyve got cocks above the crosses on the churches. there was explained to me that its a symbol of the state supremacy over the church. but i think the real meaning is that those frogs eating bastards are buch of pervs.
osiol 55 | 3,922
23 Nov 2009 #108
in france they

They had once fully abolished Christianity and persecuted Christians, sending priests as prisoners to South America.

But that is not what this is about.

the USA, where the separation of church and State is part of the constitution

Indeed, but where the word God keeps appearing in schools and courtrooms, or so I have heard, not having been there ever.

In a democratic country which already has a religion that predominates across the population, it is not necessary to have an established religion. Those who vote and those who are elected are predominantly adherents whose judgement will be affected by that religion. But for some, maybe adherence is not enough, but it does seem that pushing religion at people is a sign of lack of faith in that religion.

Thee shall not forget Ezekiel 25:17

Thanks, Samuel L. Jackson.
cheehaw 2 | 263
23 Nov 2009 #109
But for some, maybe adherence is not enough, but it does seem that pushing religion at people is a sign of lack of faith in that religion.

that's why we have to say no to secular humanism.

it lacks faith and so tries to get rid of anything that might compete with it.
Babinich 1 | 455
23 Nov 2009 #110
God's Grace is bestowed on you automatically, it is imputed.

That is your opinion.
jonni 16 | 2,485
23 Nov 2009 #111
Let religious believers do their religion among themselves. And I say good luck to them, and wish them no harm.

As long as they don't try to push their ideology down other people's throats.
OP 1jola 14 | 1,879
23 Nov 2009 #112
As long as they don't try to push their ideology down other people's throats.

I agree. The crosses are fine, but no compulsory religion classes.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,827
23 Nov 2009 #113
how about some schools with crosses with better standards and results, for proven Catholics and immigrants from Catholic countries, and some without crosses, but with much lower standards, for those of their own country's religion plus any random Jews and Muslims? Wouldn't that be great? Ohh silly me we already have this in GB.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
23 Nov 2009 #114
Well enlighten me, Babinich. The Apostles, to my knowledge, don't make any reference to a priest being needed. Quote me a half statement and I will catch you out.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
24 Nov 2009 #115
prove your vague statement, I'm curious. and before Christianity, there was was what, no Europe?

Yes, Europe as far as a land mass: Filled with Pagan tribes constantly at war...What many do not understand is that Christianity, and Christ Himself, appeared at a time when man had reached a point in his understanding when he could go beyond murder and plunder and live in a civilized way...You may notice that Jesus had no bones to pick with the Romans...This is because he understood that their civilization was a step forward, and that He would be the leavening force that would make Rome and later the whole continent into something great...Christianity is the basis of European Civilization, what made it civilized, along with the influence of the Greeks and Romans...And, dig this: If the Christian warrior Charles Martel hadn't stopped the Muslims at Tours, you might be reading from the Koran now.
osiol 55 | 3,922
24 Nov 2009 #116
that's why we have to say no to secular humanism.

You may have missed my point. What exactly do you mean by secular humanism? I don't believe that secularism denies the existence of God. What it does is deny that any particular religion may have undue influence over non-believers. Atheists (or humanists - the two terms are not exactly the same) can be as fundamentalist as theists and this can also be a problem, but secularism isn't confined to atheists alone.
cheehaw 2 | 263
24 Nov 2009 #117
You may have missed my point.

no, I get the point quite well.

Read the Humanist Manifesto, there are 2 parts, 1 and 2. I am sure it's still online. This is what human secularism is based on.

used to be at infidels.org, may still be there I am not sure. Originally, they even had a church.

They decided it wasn't wise to openly call themselves a religion though. They do not believe in God.
Babinich 1 | 455
24 Nov 2009 #118
Well enlighten me, Babinich. The Apostles, to my knowledge, don't make any reference to a priest being needed. Quote me a half statement and I will catch you out.

The Apostles were priests...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
24 Nov 2009 #119
Not ONE of the Apostles offered to be God as only God forgives us. Not ONE of them tried to enter into such sacrilege. Judaism also states that man alone cannot play God.

Jesus was sacrificed on the cross for all our future sins. That was a poor comeback, Babinich. Try looking at the difference between Paul and James.

Let me guess, you are an avid fan of the Council of Trent?
jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Nov 2009 #120
Hmm, plently of posts from people believing in invisible entities... :-(

About the crucifixes, 1Jola's post makes a bit of sense, leave them, there isn't a huge strong feeling against them, but don't have compulsory religion lessons.

Eventually, belief in supernatural religion will wither away here, but for the moment, taking down crucifixes would just provoke a difficult response.

Keeping priests out of the (state school) classroom and stopping them indoctrinating kids would be the logical first step.


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